On faith and religion

[Morphane]

To steal from one of my favorite movies, "The Princess Bride": I do not think Oneness means what you think it means.

Oneness is Oneness, it transcends all religions and most belief systems.

For me, Oneness is seeing all others in myself and seeing myself in everything: rocks, sand, water, wood, wind as well as in others. War and power are completely irrelevant. There is only One and we have strayed far from the truth and the life. Love and wisdom are always available to those who seek.

I'm certain the Oneness, God, Universe, Life, or whatever I'm trying to label, doesn't mean the label I attach to it.

Some people have glorious visions where all distinctions slip away, but there is still this element of play in which the One hides in the Many. Where Ying battles Yang for the fun of it.

 

[Bastard]

I subscribe to Alan Watts's ideas regarding the monotheistic traditions.

Firstly, this great Oneness that has been spoken of - it can't be pinned down to a single point of view. It probably operates in an infinity of aspects.

Some people see the Oneness through monotheism, and are fighting to survive in a war with the darkest power.

Some people see the Oneness through Hinduism, and are watching this great war from the perspective of the audience.

Some people see the Oneness through Buddhism and Tao, and have gotten out of their seats to peak back stage.

Atheists are the bastard sons of the monotheists, and they're playing the game harder than anyone.

I don't understand the last sentence. Can someone explain?

 

[Morphane]

I don't understand the last sentence. Can someone explain?

The monotheistic idea, if I understand Watts at all, is like that of an inventor who made a machine.

The atheists continue with this view, but have gotten rid of the inventor. So the universe is an automatic machine, but can still be broken apart and analyzed to see how it works.

Along with this view is the idea that the observer of this machine is somehow separate and alien. A stranger in the world, who must fight the thing in order to survive. Science has discovered though, especially on the atomic scale of things, that merely observing causes an indelible effect. So maybe Quantum Mechanics has or will loop back around to where the Taoists knew thousands of years ago.

 

[blackcat]

"My questions:

1. Does anyone believe in any of the Abrahamic religions?
2. Is anyone here an atheist?
3. How has DMT affected your views on God, religion, and spirituality?"

(I'm sorry... I don't know how to properly quote another post!)

Alright... here's a rather rare reply to find in these kinds of forums, but here goes:

1. I am a practing Catholic, and a rather traditional one, at that (For example, I attend the old Latin Mass).
2. Well, obviously I'm not an atheist.
3. While SWIM has not done DMT yet, he has done quite a few other psychedelics (e.g. shrooms, acid, high-dose ketamine).

I am not uncomfortable around people whose spiritualities are different than my own, though I have found more than a few (sadly) who are not comfortable around me. This has happened ONLY when a person who doesn't really know me simply finds out that I'm Catholic and that I truly believe in and practice it, and NEVER simply by hanging around someone and them seeing what I'm really like. In other words, I'm not preachy and have never been accused of being a "Jesus-freak" by anyone based on my personality. I have found that how someone speaks about Christians - or even more, those religions that are commonly maligned, such as Mormonism - is a true test to see how opened minded and accepting someone really is. From my experience (including being a student at left-leaning Berkeley), it is commonly easier to be accepted believing in pantheism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. while stating that you are Catholic/Christian can bring on the angry questions/comments. Though I have to say, I met many, many people (including the vast majority of my friends!) who were non-Christian and much more Eastern in their belief systems who were very open, loving and embraced me for who I was!

So how does a Catholic such as myself make sense of the world? A combination of faith and science (which are complementary rather than contradictory, since they deal with two separate realms), philosophy and experience (including the invaluable empirical data of the psychedelic experience). SWIM has learned a great deal about the nature of the universe, the mind, and the heart through the use of psychedelics, but has found a more complete view of the universe also takes into account a healthy dose of reason (including studying the writings of history's great philosophers). At this point in my journey, I feel very comfortable taking all of these together and still being a devout Catholic.

So how about that for an anomaly- a Catholic who believes in the benefits of psychedelics! A rarity amoung users of psychedelics and a rariy in the Church!

 

[Saidin]

Each persons journey back to the center is unique.

There are no right or wrong beliefs, all views are valid.

To somewhat accurately quote Mohammed, "There are as many paths to god as there are souls in existence"

 

[33]

My questions:
1. Does anyone believe in any of the Abrahamic religions?
2. Is anyone here an atheist?
3. How has DMT affected your views on God, religion, and spirituality?

I have been an atheist and in general, I despise religion.

Most of the world believes in the God of Abraham, we just fight over the details.

Originally God was symbolized with a dot and a circle around it (i.e. the Sun). On a circle, God is the radius thus you can create an equation for God. God is non-local, his energy condensed at the radius and spirals out seeking this Phi-ratio balance. At the beginning, it was complete chaos and at the end it will be complete harmony. The only way I have found to define that is a lucid-like dream state and when I tried DMT I knew it was real.

God is Yud Heh Vav Heh. This is the Word of God that created the Universe.

I believe Heaven is a physical reality on Earth. I don't believe you have to die to go to Heaven, but however you get there you still have a physical body the only difference is your mind is connected to reality (like molecular manufacturing) or exactly like a lucid dream with more tangible aspects.

 

[33]

There are no right or wrong beliefs, all views are valid.

To somewhat accurately quote Mohammed, "There are as many paths to god as there are souls in existence"

Be careful with this logic.

"Everyone is right and no one is wrong except the man who says he is right." This concept of relative truth or the virtue of openness was labeled by Professor Allan Bloom as the greatest insight of our time. IT has single handily destroyed the concept of the individual and the Natural Law via education in the United States.

I believe in absolute truth. There may be many paths to God, but there is only one scientific truth of God. Whatever created the world and us, you have to admit that there is only -1- right answer.

I believe in evolution, but I also believe God created Man and that Man materialized from the hyperluminal field as Adam Kadmon. I don't exactly know how, but I believe in the 50 Gates of Intelligence and Lurian Kabbalah to me represents the greatest truth on religion anywhere ever.

My beliefs are based on logic, reason and observation. I admit I may be wrong, but I've yet to find a competing theory that makes more sense.

I'm a radical who believes Jesus was the personification of lucifer and that the Illuminati was the greatest organization in the world. Please don't interpret what I write the wrong way. I have a lot of context and supporting evidence to explain it, all based on objective logic and reasoning. I'm simply looking for the truth.

 

[burnt]

Please don't interpret what I write the wrong way. I have a lot of context and supporting evidence to explain it, all based on objective logic and reasoning.

Please show what evidence you have to support these rather radical ideas.

I believe in evolution, but I also believe God created Man and that Man materialized from the hyperluminal field as Adam Kadmon.

Because to me that makes absolutely no sense.

 

['Coatl]

I believe God created man through evolution.

 

[Twilight]

"My questions:

1. Does anyone believe in any of the Abrahamic religions?
2. Is anyone here an atheist?
3. How has DMT affected your views on God, religion, and spirituality?"

I think I was an atheist at one time, for many years I did not believe God existed but at the same time I wanted it to be true, what was I? Is there such a thing as an atheist who does not believe in God and had a strong dislike of religions yet wanted such to be real? I'm not sure I was one, but I sure didn't believe in God and thought religions, especially the Christian ones, were a bunch of stories manufactured by mankind and not from God, at least, in the way its source is being taught in churches. Truth is, I still tend to believe that but I don't really know so am reserving judgment. The Holy Bible? I still do not think it is any more holy than anything else on this planet in my not so humble opinion. However While I make such a stern remark I also will say that all things are holy, all in this universe is a wonderful astounding miracle, to me. I am a contradiction in some ways, I will write such things as I just did telling you that the Bible isn't any more holy than anything else on this planet such as Microsoft's Windows operating system yet I also can see that all things are holy! I think my main issue is I don't agree with the way religions usually teach a great disparity between man and their concept of God.

Regarding God being real or not, I changed my thinking because of a dream I had one afternoon. If you want to see what turned my world around to believe God exists and that we are all One as a part of the all that is, one life living through all life now, in the past and in the future, in parallel and in series at the same time... if you want to see why I changed please go to the link I am providing, below. Now, I fully believe all life is the same life, the same One living through each of us and I feel this way from the dream I had, not from a religion, just one dream and my outlook on life changed, here is a link to the story: http://people.tribe.net/cosmicegg/blog/34ae8b64-b68d-4183-9b5a-bede362c9ad1

While I use the word God I don't want to use that word, I don't like the religious implications of it. Regarding DMT, only had a very small taste of it one time, want to try again but it may be years until I can.

 

[WSaged]

I subscribe to Alan Watts's ideas regarding the monotheistic traditions.

Firstly, this great Oneness that has been spoken of - it can't be pinned down to a single point of view. It probably operates in an infinity of aspects.

Some people see the Oneness through monotheism, and are fighting to survive in a war with the darkest power.

Some people see the Oneness through Hinduism, and are watching this great war from the perspective of the audience.

Some people see the Oneness through Buddhism and Tao, and have gotten out of their seats to peak back stage.

Atheists are the bastard sons of the monotheists, and they're playing the game harder than anyone.

Wow, that is really well put!

My view of our "oneness" is summed up well in something I read in a book on the Tao.
This is not an exact quote, it was a long time ago when I actually read it, but it has stuck with me for years now.

When you look at the earth from out in space, as a planet, what you see a number of land masses that appear to be totally separated by all the water.
but if you were to drain off all of that water, one would be able to see how those land masses are actually connected to each other underneath all of that water.
The land mass is one big piece, separated only on the surface by the water.
Just like our minds & bodies.
The land masses are our souls/spirits/consciousnesses/etc... (whatever you want to call it), the water is our skin/bodies/meat cars/etc...

I've always felt that analogy works quite well in explaining the god-consciousness, or "oneness" that we all feel (or do not feel) at times.

I think religion is the thing most heads have a problem with, not spirituality. Those are two very, very different things.
Basically, religion is the selling of spirituality.


WS

 

[SWIMfriend]

...but if you were to drain off all of that water, one would be able to see how those land masses are actually connected to each other underneath all of that water.
The land mass is one big piece, separated on the surface by the water...

...of course, the original Taoists didn't know about plate tectonics...

 

[WSaged]

...but if you were to drain off all of that water, one would be able to see how those land masses are actually connected to each other underneath all of that water.
The land mass is one big piece, separated on the surface by the water...

...of course, the original Taoists didn't know about plate tectonics...

Well, loosely connected...
but it's the idea of the surface hiding the truth that has stuck with me.

WS

 

[Twilight]

Oh God, that's a good one, oneness is hidden beneath the surface! The analogy of the water on the earth and the continents is awesome, very nice!

 

[33]

Please show what evidence you have to support these rather radical ideas.

Lucifer has been known as the "Morning Star" well before Jesus. Lucifer means "light-bearer" and is old Latin (I think) for Venus. I don't believe lucifer was a person, I think it's a noun. It's also possible that lucifer was a planet that crashed into the Earth prior to the Great Flood.

Luciferianism is simply the pursuit of knowledge, namely the Tree of Life. It's said that we evolved from nothing, to plants, animals, dinosaurs, the planets, humans and then to angels. We are around the 35th Gate of Intelligence. Moses reached 49th, arch-angel and Jesus reached the 50th, Aun Suph -- oneness with God or the personification of lucifer.

I am a deist and I believe God can be discovered through observational, science and reason.

Satan in Hebrew is the Sutan, the adversarial force of Man not God. There is no real evil in the world, since everythin is part of God. The only evil is the remnants of the God-head (reshimu) that reside in the dark realm (kellipots). It is the point of this world to bring those remnants into the Light, called Tikkun Olam the balancing of the Universe. I believe the concept of evil is keeping this knowledge secret.

Because to me that makes absolutely no sense.

I believed in Divine Evolution forever. I also believed McKenna's idea (I think) about how apes or primates ate shrooms (i.e. manna) and that was the birth of counsciousness. I logically inteperted the Fall of Man (i.e. Birth of Consciousness) to be related to this, but now I consider another possibility.

During the Fall of Man (Tzimtzum - the Contraction), I believe this is what actually happened:

1) Tzimtzum: Contraction:

* God must withdraw from a portion of the universe in order to create something other than himself.
* Leaves "point" of emptiness, primordial space, substratum for creation: Tehiru.
* Leaves residue of divine light: Reshimu (mercy + traces of Din): Vessels to receive emanated light.
* Requires separation of forces of Din-Justice from undistinguished totality, principle of (Self-) limitation.
* In the primordial space the Ein-sof creates the first yod.
* Creation of unformed "primordial air" and "primordial man" (Adam Kadmon). Adam Kadmon was first being to materialize after Tzimtzum, contained Sefirot as concentric circles (Keter was outermost). Reorganized in human form (linear). Precedes four worlds of emanation-creation.
* Circular and linear emanation of divine light.
* Apparent contradiction of divine immutability: Leads to differences among commentators: Did Tzimtzum occur in Ein-sof or only in the emanated light? (Or.: How literally should Tzimtzum be understood?)
* Usefulness of Tzimtzum theory as explanation of origin of evil/free will.


2) The Breaking of the Vessels:

* Ray of divine light came from Ein-sof in order to organize the Reshimu and forces of Din in the primordial space. Light radiated from head of Adam Kadmon as letters, etc. Lights from eyes (circular) radiates to "World of Points" `Olam ha-nekudot:: Stage of unstructured divine light--into vessels (Sefirot from Hesed to Yesod).
* Vessels unable to contain light shatter into light and shards of Din (husks, kelipot).
* Kelippot become root of evil: "Other side."
* Root of exilic situation in God, humanity and Israel.

I don't know what "materialize" means, but I for all my religion-bashing, I believe in the God of Abraham and think it's possible that Adam Kadmon didn't evolve from primates but somehow emerged spontaneously as an archetype of universal consciousness.

Another way to explain it, if there are aliens on other planets or in hyperspace I believe 99% of them are humanoids like us. We are the greatest being in all the universe. Our DNA and existence seems hard coded into existence itself. Either evolution has a goal or we are as innately natural as water.

Check out Adam Kadmon - Wikipedia

 

[33]

Also, the Bavarian Illuminati and the Jacobin Club fought against the atheists and the Catholic Church, which at the time was the state. The conspiracy against all government and all religion is one against all corruption and oppression. They believed in the Indefinite Perfectiability of Man, which states that because God created you, then you know what's best for yourself, thus you can govern yourself.

The Illuminati were fighting for a Constitutional Republic, in fact the official name of the Jacobin Club was the Society of the Friends of the Constitution. Thomas Jefferson respected Adam Weishaupt, who believed the object goal of Jesus Christ was to teach man Natural Religion, to teach us to love our neighbor and to teach us that we know what's best for ourselves -- we can grow, learn, evolve in order to govern ourselves and render political government useless. Jesus was a liberal, a classical liberal / libertarian.

The Illuminati does not exist anymore and to call collectivists neo-cons like Bush et al Illuminati is really an insult to the Enlightenment Era. The United States of America was founded on such ideas. To deny them, is ignorance of history which is normal since education teaches us a perverse collectivist-version of history.

Dan Brown and Ron Howard are tragically wrong. Sean Hannity (unbelievably), is absolutely right --

 

[Saidin]

There are no right or wrong beliefs, all views are valid.

To somewhat accurately quote Mohammed, "There are as many paths to god as there are souls in existence"

Be careful with this logic.

"Everyone is right and no one is wrong except the man who says he is right." This concept of relative truth or the virtue of openness was labeled by Professor Allan Bloom as the greatest insight of our time. IT has single handily destroyed the concept of the individual and the Natural Law via education in the United States.

I believe in absolute truth. There may be many paths to God, but there is only one scientific truth of God. Whatever created the world and us, you have to admit that there is only -1- right answer.

I believe in evolution, but I also believe God created Man and that Man materialized from the hyperluminal field as Adam Kadmon. I don't exactly know how, but I believe in the 50 Gates of Intelligence and Lurian Kabbalah to me represents the greatest truth on religion anywhere ever.

My beliefs are based on logic, reason and observation. I admit I may be wrong, but I've yet to find a competing theory that makes more sense.

I'm a radical who believes Jesus was the personification of lucifer and that the Illuminati was the greatest organization in the world. Please don't interpret what I write the wrong way. I have a lot of context and supporting evidence to explain it, all based on objective logic and reasoning. I'm simply looking for the truth.

I agree there is one ultimate truth, but it is unknowable. You have your truth, I have mine, and in the end we will both get to the same place. I have my beliefs which are very different than yours and are based on logic, reason, and observation. We are both right. We are both wrong. That is what I meant by all beliefs are valid.

 

[33]

I agree there is one ultimate truth, but it is unknowable. You have your truth, I have mine, and in the end we will both get to the same place. I have my beliefs which are very different than yours and are based on logic, reason, and observation. We are both right. We are both wrong. That is what I meant by all beliefs are valid.

I understand why you believe that, but I disagree. Professor Bloom wrote that "the virtue of openness" is the "great insight of our times." The idea that truth is relative has destroyed America by transitioning its citizens from a "democratic man" to a "democratic personality", or a liberal democracy without Natural Rights. Thus diminishing the intellect and responsibility of the individual, and further obfuscating the truth from being understood.

I am not planning on dying to get to where we're going. As Jesus said, Heaven is here on Earth. We just aren't spirituality worthy of seeing it.

All beliefs are not valid. One of us is right and one of us is wrong. I concede I may be the one who is wrong and you may be the one who is right, but we are definitely NOT both right.

The Tree of Life is the 22 Hebrew letters (3, 7, 12) and the 10 numbers. This equals 32, which is equated with the Heart in Kabbalah. The word of God is math, it is not abstract or unknown.

Check this out, and I guarantee you will no longer think truth is unknowable:

http://web.mac.com/len15/LOVE528/Pi,_PHI_&_528.html

There are highly aligned water molecules in your brain that have Fibonacci patterns. These water molecules have a field inducing effect on the photons in your brain, allowing self-induced transparency and super-radiance (essentially reverse time). The human brain is the only proof of a room temperature superconductor and photonic computer, and the way it works is based on divine math (not words/ideas or logic but numbers) from Sefer Yetizrah.

 

[33]

Did you go to public school or University in the United States? If so, you were taught propaganda by the American Historical Association (www.historians.org) which was specifically intended so you wouldn't understand what I'm saying. I was taught the same thing and it took me years to understand why but the facts remain. Just research the 1950s Congressional Reece Commission and read Professor Bloom's book.

 

[Aegle]

My belief

We all create our own reality's from our consciousness. The I does not exist, unfortunately from our conception we are taught that I does exist. So our reality s are distorted we create what we experience. The ego is a huge barrier which blinds us so that we can not see and we create suffering for ourselves and for others. The only way to be free form this distorted reality is to create self awareness and compassion for all beings. Once the ego has been shattered and peace of mind has been attained freeing yourself from this never ending circle of suffering becomes a possibility. For me personally enthogens and mediation aid me on my journey of self discovery and ego detachment.
Nothing really exists and at the same time everything exists.....the biggest mind bender of all time.....Maybe that's why religions and religious books don't allow their followers to question....If people truly understood what is really happening it could cause total chaos. I feel we should always question everything not ever just blindly believe something. The best way to explain that we don't really exist is its the I that doesn't exist, we are taught when we are small that I does and we need to change that way of thinking so that we realize the I doesn't exist just our karma and our consciousness does and that we need to understand the idea of emptiness. My true path to enlightenment is radiating pure compassion.



Much Peace