Once I believed I WOULD NEVER DO DMT EVER AGAIN. Beware dark and hostile forces...

[tele]

The answer to this is simple.

You weren't using DMT in a healthy manner, and so you got burned. That doesn't mean there ISN'T a healthy way of working with DMT -- it just means that you tried something, and it didn't work.

You try, you fail, you try again, maybe you fail, maybe you succeed. That's how you learn.

I agree there are plenty of ways not to use DMT in a healthy manner and it can burn you for that. However, to say that for certain someone was not using in healthy manner is difficult to say unless you were sitting with the person when he was using it.

Moderation is a good idea at the point if one uses it too frequently and get's tough journeys. It should often fix the issue

 

[tomtomtom]

The answer to this is simple.

You weren't using DMT in a healthy manner, and so you got burned. That doesn't mean there ISN'T a healthy way of working with DMT -- it just means that you tried something, and it didn't work.

You try, you fail, you try again, maybe you fail, maybe you succeed. That's how you learn.

In what way was he using dmt in a unhealthy manner? do you mean by having a terrifying experience? he administered his does in the usual manner that a lot of people do. I have been reading a lot of bad trip posts lately and the majority of them have nothing to do with allowing dark entities to surround you. Instead they simply don't see it coming...just take that last toke, and end up in trouble.

That being said, any member of hyperspace is only one toke away from a similar fate. There is even a popular moderator on this forum who had to stop smoking straight spice because his/her experiences continued to be bad. I am guessing as a moderator they practice using spice in a safe an healthy manner. I think its a little "unenlightened" (for lack of a better word)not to mention a broad statement to add a comment or advice saying "you tried something, and it didn't work".

 

[polytrip]

The O.P. himself has said already that he thinks he was using DMT in an unhealthy manner.

 

[tomtomtom]

The O.P. himself has said already that he thinks he was using DMT in an unhealthy manner.

No he did not say he was using DMT in an unhealthy manner. The nearest evaluation he could make as to why he had this bad experience was this statement "using DMT somewhat recreationally by journeying every night". Now its up for interpretation from you personal opinion if you think that's him saying he used DMT unhealthily, without actually saying it.

Whereas if you read the post in context he also stated at the very beginning "Despite this I still believed I was using DMT in a responsible manner". Responsible would include using DMT a health manner would it not, though if you concluded otherwise fair enough.

 

[Dr Psychonaut]

Tomtomtom is right as I didn't think at any point that I was using it in an unhealthy manner. I accurately weighed the dose everytime, and documented every single spice experience even if it were just a 5mg hit.

After the bad experience however I started to think that it was a message from the spice telling me that by using it so frequently and feeling the strong desire to keep going back to hyperspace to find out more was the error of my ways. Towards the end I could perhaps agree with this as 30mg doses were only giving me threshold effects so I immediately loaded up with more which was perhaps a bit compulsive as I desperately wanted a proper experience every time.

 

[polytrip]

Tomtomtom is right as I didn't think at any point that I was using it in an unhealthy manner. I accurately weighed the dose everytime, and documented every single spice experience even if it were just a 5mg hit.

After the bad experience however I started to think that it was a message from the spice telling me that by using it so frequently and feeling the strong desire to keep going back to hyperspace to find out more was the error of my ways. Towards the end I could perhaps agree with this as 30mg doses were only giving me threshold effects so I immediately loaded up with more which was perhaps a bit compulsive as I desperately wanted a proper experience every time.

I've gotten the impression that when you spoke about holding on to something beautyfull that turns ugly, your own interpretation of it was that DMT had turned into an unhealthy obsession for you.
I thought that's what applecore was talking about.

 

[Felnik]

I think its only natural to develop periodic obsessions
With it . I know I have gone through those periods in the past .
Things can get very dark when you use it too often though .
I,ve learned to recognize the signs over time. After a while
It's really true that you don't have to journey as often .
I guess you can reach a mature level with it. At this point
I savor my journeys and try to plan carefully so when I do go its
Totally amazing every time .

Sometimes how you spend your time in normal life is more important
Than anything . I think the better you live your life the better and more
Enlightening hyperspace can be.

 

[Dr Psychonaut]

I've gotten the impression that when you spoke about holding on to something beautyfull that turns ugly, your own interpretation of it was that DMT had turned into an unhealthy obsession for you.

I did interpret it that way but what I mean is that I myself never felt it was an unhealthy obsession, I thought that after the bad experience the DMT was telling me this. I myself always thought I was bringing back something useful each time and so thought journeying often was beneficial if anything.

I think its only natural to develop periodic obsessions
With it . I know I have gone through those periods in the past .
Things can get very dark when you use it too often though .
I,ve learned to recognize the signs over time. After a while
It's really true that you don't have to journey as often .
I guess you can reach a mature level with it. At this point
I savor my journeys and try to plan carefully so when I do go its
Totally amazing every time .

Sometimes how you spend your time in normal life is more important
Than anything . I think the better you live your life the better and more
Enlightening hyperspace can be.

I really like this post. I hope that one day in the future I will be able to use DMT very rarely but when I do get only amazing experiences.

 

[TheAppleCore]

In what way was he using dmt in a unhealthy manner?

Well, it could've been the simple fact that he was using it on a daily basis. It could've been the way he approached the trip -- mindset, intentions, etc. It could've been the dosages he was using.

The point I'm trying to make is that you can LEARN to shape and control these experiences, and steer them into a generally more positive direction. You have a certain degree of control, which comes with practice -- and until you've developed this skill, you don't necessarily know how to work with the drug in a healthy manner.

Follow me?

 

[Ice House]

I believe fractal put it best -

You are taking extremely powerful psychedelics, and in some cases rediculously huge doses. I am not saying it is not real..I dont even choose a side anymore when it comes to that issue. All I am saying is that it helps to be someone grounded in your approach here..and suddenly believing that none of this could be an internal struggle rather than external seems almost like an idealization of the human psyche. Are you sure that you are really without your own psychological demons?

I think every person reflects the universe within themselves..so what you find inside is a mirror image of outside..just as what you find outside is a larger reflection of the inner world of every individual. So if you want to move beyond, you have to face these things, that is how it is. I mean, isn't this what nightmares are all about? Nightmares seem just as real as day..why would DMT be so different?

I have been in your shoes many times before with regards to this. I have had to take long breaks. Over a year long once. Two important things I learned from these experiences.

Itegrate!
Take time to integrate between voyages. Yea, sometimes integration lasts a minute at most and then I'm hitting my GVG harder than ever and blasting off once again. Integration has to happen. Integration must happen. It will happen one of two ways. Either you set down some personal guidlines with regards to responsible DMT use, include integration, and follow those guidlines or not and get forced to integrate because of some traumatic hyperspace experience. Does taking time off now and again garantee you wont have traumatic hyperspace experiences? Nope, however blasting off every or almost evey day without fail pretty much assures that a bad experience is coming. Thats not the rule for all but IMO its the rule for most.

Never say never again with DMT!
I have had some traumatic\horrific experiences and I know others who have also and feel the same as I do. I will always go back. Maybe after I finish this post or maybe in a few years. I am never sure of a few things with DMT. I never know how long I'll be gone for, or where I am going in hyperspace or what I will be doing there, and I never know when I'm going back. It just happens. At most any moment I can feel the call to hyperspace. When the call come I usuallt facilitate it ASAP.

My guess is a time will come when you will feel that you must go back and you will go.

 

[tele]

Towards the end I could perhaps agree with this as 30mg doses were only giving me threshold effects so I immediately loaded up with more which was perhaps a bit compulsive as I desperately wanted a proper experience every time.

Well this could have been the reason why it got tough on you.
If one smokes about once a week it's a good way to keep that issue at bay.

However, if 30mg gave threshold effects it's weird, because there's no DMT tolerance.

 

[tomtomtom]

In what way was he using dmt in a unhealthy manner?

Well, it could've been the simple fact that he was using it on a daily basis. It could've been the way he approached the trip -- mindset, intentions, etc. It could've been the dosages he was using.

The point I'm trying to make is that you can LEARN to shape and control these experiences, and steer them into a generally more positive direction. You have a certain degree of control, which comes with practice -- and until you've developed this skill, you don't necessarily know how to work with the drug in a healthy manner.

Follow me?

So is it safe to say you just assumed because the OP's trip was bad...he was using it unhealthily?. That is the impression I get from the first paragraph quoted above. Either that or you are being sarcastic. Tut tut.

The point I was trying to make to you was that the advice you gave didn't really seem like advice, more of a...its your own fault get over it type comment as you didn't give any solution even though you were so confident of the apparent problem. No matter how experienced you think you are(even with this highly unknown subject) at one point you needed help and advice previously and will again in future with something not particularly this subject. We either post to give out advice or post to ask for advice. I don't think you will be happy if people post a slightly superior and dismissive manner, to you in future. Especially seen as you haven't had an awful experience given your "healthy" style. I am sure you will agree this site is quite special in the quality of people you speak to whom all are very polite, as opposed to...let say the rest of the internet:lol:.

The second paragraph you wrote, quoted above came across actually helpful. Anyway I not trying to bash you, I am just a little sensitive to this subject as I experienced it:twisted: in all its intensity myself recently.

You follow ME:d

 

[Dr Psychonaut]

I agree with tomtomtom in that a lot of people's responses to these types of posts aren't very supportive and assume the user is at fault (such as tele's remarks saying how DMT obviously isn't for me and that 'he's seen and felt unpleasant stuff with the D, but bear in the forest won't keep him away from the forest's beauty'). Though the majority of responses were very compassionate and understanding offering me sound advice that has led me to believe I will be able to use DMT sometime again in the future.


I think certain people do need to be careful with superior and dismissive responses and it can lead people to give up on this substance that has so much potential. By saying to anyone who's just had a horrific experience 'I guess DMT isn't for you then' not only demonstrates a lack of community support, but it goes against what I believed the principles of this forum to be which should be to provide helpful advice to explorers and help everyone get closer to the universal truth


But I do have to say a huge thank you to everyone who provided support when I needed it most and have helped show me that this isn't the end of my psychonautical explorations. I love being a part of this forum and I hope that in years to come I will be able to use information here to contribute to my career in psychiatry and encouraging psychedelic use in psychotherapy.

 

[polytrip]

I agree with tomtomtom in that a lot of people's responses to these types of posts aren't very supportive and assume the user is at fault (such as tele's remarks saying how DMT obviously isn't for me and that 'he's seen and felt unpleasant stuff with the D, but bear in the forest won't keep him away from the forest's beauty'). Though the majority of responses were very compassionate and understanding offering me sound advice that has led me to believe I will be able to use DMT sometime again in the future.


I think certain people do need to be careful with superior and dismissive responses and it can lead people to give up on this substance that has so much potential. By saying to anyone who's just had a horrific experience 'I guess DMT isn't for you then' not only demonstrates a lack of community support, but it goes against what I believed the principles of this forum to be which should be to provide helpful advice to explorers and help everyone get closer to the universal truth


But I do have to say a huge thank you to everyone who provided support when I needed it most and have helped show me that this isn't the end of my psychonautical explorations. I love being a part of this forum and I hope that in years to come I will be able to use information here to contribute to my career in psychiatry and encouraging psychedelic use in psychotherapy.

Was it interest in human psychology that lead you to overdo it?
At least you have provided yourself with an interesting case to study.

You said that you've thought that you've been bringing something valuable back each time and yet that in hindsight, your relationship with DMT had become too obsessive.

Both can be true at the same time. Untying this knot could definately provide you with some great insights.

 

[Eternal_LVX]

Just wondering if anyone here has heard of the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram and if they have used it before and after trips?

I have been experimenting with Ceremonial Magick for about 4 years and I have had somewhat success with this method. I realize that the reasons this person is having a bad trip may or may not be spiritual in nature, but if they are, I'm just suggesting that some form of banishing method be used.

I'm also recommending that you take a break and then try again.

 

[TheAppleCore]

So is it safe to say you just assumed because the OP's trip was bad...he was using it unhealthily?

No, not because he had a bad trip. But just because in a sense NONE of us truly know how to use the drug, and we all have something to learn.

I don't think you will be happy if people post a slightly superior and dismissive manner, to you in future. Especially seen as you haven't had an awful experience given your "healthy" style.

Oh no, you misunderstand me. I was not hoping for my post to come across as superior or dismissive in any way. I was simply trying to give the OP hope that if he was patient and careful, the molecule could still be a part of his life, and that his bad experience didn't necessarily mean that his relationship with DMT was over for good.

I, too, have had truly horrible experiences with DMT, much like the one described in this thread. But I don't attribute them to anything but my own ignorance. I think that I had those experiences simply because I didn't know how to avoid them. Not because of an evil entity, or anything out of my own control.

 

[TheAppleCore]

I agree with tomtomtom in that a lot of people's responses to these types of posts aren't very supportive and assume the user is at fault

But I think it's obvious that the user IS at fault. I mean, clearly you were fully responsible for what happened to you. You could have chosen never to smoke DMT or use any psychedelic drugs in your life, and you never would have had this experience. But you did choose to use psychedelic drugs, and brought this upon yourself, and so you're responsible. That doesn't mean that you're evil or stupid or wrong because you smoked DMT and had a bad trip, but it does mean that you are, technically, at fault.

I don't think that being frank with you and telling you this is "not very supportive". I'm trying to help you understand the nature of the issue, so that you can avoid it in the future. That's not being supportive?

 

[Dr Psychonaut]

But I think it's obvious that the user IS at fault. I mean, clearly you were fully responsible for what happened to you. You could have chosen never to smoke DMT or use any psychedelic drugs in your life, and you never would have had this experience. But you did choose to use psychedelic drugs, and brought this upon yourself, and so you're responsible. That doesn't mean that you're evil or stupid or wrong because you smoked DMT and had a bad trip, but it does mean that you are, technically, at fault.

I don't think that being frank with you and telling you this is "not very supportive". I'm trying to help you understand the nature of the issue, so that you can avoid it in the future. That's not being supportive?

I appreciate your advice TheAppleCore, though I do think you perhaps speak with too much certainty over something that no one can be certain about. You can't be sure that the way I used DMT is the cause as I have read many an account of users who have used it in irresponsible ways repeatedly eg. when drunk at parties, when they didn't really know what it was they were smoking, and yet many never have an experience like mine. I still stand by the fact I saw myself using it responsibly - always clear headed, never under the influece of other substances, in a quiet dim room sometimes with a sitter and always immediately document the experience in my trip journal.


Ultimately I was responsible for the experience in that I chose to smoke DMT. But when you say 'at fault' then it can be assumed that you mean to say anyone who smokes DMT is in some way 'at fault'.


I think your point of view is useful to interpret, but one cannot simply state that any bad trip experience is the fault of the user IMO. I don't mean to sound defensive in what I am saying, I just think looking at different possible answers without definite conclusion is often the most useful approach to understanding such issues.

 

[Death&Decay]

Hi I just found this post and thought I would comment with my opinion. For one dmt always has a message and sometimes it's subtle but it's always there even if a little. Second I believe you sort of did this to yourself by inviting that negative force into your reality. By playing with fire you got burnt, it's that simple. However dmt in of itself is not evil but it is definitely a doorway to evil things BUT that is only if you allow it. I believe it's kinda like walking down a crowded street. You can either meet a beautiful woman and have one of the greatest moments of your life, or you could meet a con artist and get taken for a ride. It's up to you to use your best judgement and you should have known nothing good can come from negative things, ever. I mean reflecting back now urgently might see it in a positive light but ultimately you would be better off without it.

Understanding the dark side of ones self is important but you don't want to mess with these things while you're in hyper space nothing good can come from that.

 

[dmtk2852]

I don't like the title of this thread, saying "beware dark and hostile forces" makes it seem like everyone, or at least a lot of people, will experience a negative trip like yours. I personally haven't had a bad trip on spice or any psychedelic for that matter excluding my first psychedelic adventure.