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Opinions on different teks and techniques

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karma1485

karma1485

Rising Star
I am wondering what peoples opinions on different teks are. What is the best tek for quantity yields of dmt and what is the best tek for quality of dmt? Also what are some thoughts on freeze precip vs. straight evaporation?
 
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First off, this is strictly my opinion. To each his own, and you'll find your own preffered methods after you try different teks and whatnot. In my experience, if done properly, both Acid/Base and Straight-to-base can have equal yields. An A/B, done correctly is always going to give a cleaner initial product, it's just not always necessary. Recrystallization and an amonia wash will clean up anything no matter what tek, i just try to avoid having to recrystallize because it annoys the shit out of me for some reason. In the long run it depends what you're looking for. [i:f02e250cc7]My personal preference[/i:f02e250cc7] on MHRB is a STB done [i:f02e250cc7]thoroughly and correctly[/i:f02e250cc7]. As for freeze precip vs. evap i'd say hands-down freeze evap. You can evap it down some first, but i've always found freeze precip far simpler/more effective. Hope that helps
 
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My friend likes the A/B route best. Not however, because he has any reason to think STB methods are inferior, only was doing it that way before STB methods had evolved. He found A/B worked very well for him and feels there's no need to switch. Lets us know what you decide and how you get on.
 
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[quote:4383c5bea9="Noman"]There is growing evidence that STB teks are not suited to pre powdered bark. The Lazy Man's tek is [i:4383c5bea9]definitely[/i:4383c5bea9] not suited to pre powdered.[/quote:4383c5bea9] Any ideas on why STB would not work with pre powdered bark? Swim is attempting one right now and it seems to be going well. On the 4th pull swim extracted what looks close to a half gram using 250ml of naptha. What are thoughts on pre powdered bark vs. whole bark?
 
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The pre powdered makes a thicker solution (in some cases) that traps the naptha and won't allow it to separate. It seems adding water and naptha fixes it though and this obviously isn't a problem in your case if you're on your fourth pull. The lazy man tek uses way less water to bark than mine so it seems to be a problem every time there.
 
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I like A/B because all steps (except the initial cook) are working with liquids and not a bark liquid sludge mess (plus getting the bark into and out of (impossible) the extraction vessel (a 5L hdpe jug) is a total fuckaround) I disklike the A/B because of the massive amounts of water and time needed to do the initial cooks (i just went through 18 fucking litres of water!!) eitherway i'm sticking with the A/B 8)
 
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The A/B is a nice way to do it. You learn a lot about the process's and what not. But the initial cooking and straining can be a pain in the butt. This guy Bob i know is doing his first STB and so far he is liking it better. He doesn't have to set aside several hours at a time to do the initial cooking and stuff. He can just add a bit of lye...add some naptha..come back and do a pull...etc. Much more easy and convenient to do.
 
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Good thread to start ! Look at how much I'll contribute ! Swim is pro-A/B, because Swim is biased by some organic chemisry principles once learned about solubilizing tryptamines. Also swim wants to extract every molecule present at the lowest cost possible, but swim is still learning, practicing freezer-precip' etc .. With A-B and evaporating the NP solvent, swim never needs to wash or recrystalize. Swim says A-B can be totally successful when done at room temp, yeilding > 0.9%. Swim used to 'cook' to 50 deg C, but with a pH of 1.7 - 2.0, just leave the pulverized bark to soak overnight, and shake the jug hard, and as often as possible. (do 3 acid soaks). 250 ml of acidified water are used for every 30 grams of MHRB. With good quality, pulverized bark, good filtration, by evaporating and using the slightest amounts of 35%-HCl (20 ml makes 7 liters at pH 1.7 !) and NaOH (~20 g), swim recently got > 0.9% yeild from 200g MHRB. This was using under 5 liters of acidified water. Based on what swim has told me, I don't understand how STB can 'get-at' every molecule of dmt - or if it can, I think it's a tight-balancing act to get the tek just-right. I think that especially for noobs, STB seems more complicated, or prone to error if you have to wash out contaminants etc, and this reduces yeild. So I imagine that with STB some dmt get's trapped in the insoluble black gunk, or chemically destroyed by the lye's [OH-] at a pH of 13.9. But it's just my imagination ... I always want to compare yeilds between stb and A-B - Shall we start another thread called "report swim's yeild" ..? With A-B you can 'store' the filtered acid extract and the dmt is stable. The purple, acidic filtrate is where the dmt molecules are 'safe' and protected by the water they are invisibly dissolved in. These jars are stable for weeks in the fridge. I have this idea that we are 'beating-up' the dmt with STB-lye-stews. But A-B teks first coax out the dmt, then 'protect it'. Either way we should aim to quickly chase the dmt into a NP solvent when ever the pH rises above 11.2. Chase it by 'kicks' or coaxing - just maximize yeild !
 
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El ka, One test you could do on a previous A/B : keep your 'used' powder, dry it a bit (not sure it's needed) and just make a STB with it and see if you can gather any more DMT... No need to tell you that adding lye on a acidified powder will make a strong reaction. I precise it in case others would try.
 
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I prefer the A/B personally. I think some people unnecessarily make the A/B more complicated than it is. I find the entire process satisfying and rewarding...well, aside from breaking up and grinding the bark. As far as peoples complaints about the cooking and straining... I don't see how it's that bad. If one so wished, one could do the first cook for two hours and the second cook for as little as 1/2 an hour. It just takes the crockpot a bit to really heat up for that first cook. Straining is absolutely unnecessary. Simply hold the crockpot with the lid offset slightly and pour the solution into a jar. Add the second cook to the jar in the same way. Putting the solution in the fridge for as little as 30 minutes is sufficient for a quick decant, causing the plant sediment to coagulate enough to pour off the solution and leave the sediment behind. STB is a great tek too if done properly, it's just not my preference and that's most likely because I'm an old dog.
 
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Before my first extraction (my first thread, go read it) I came here looking for information on the best tek. I read the newer threads to find out who's who and what teks are mentioned. I noticed El Ka Bong pop up in every STB thread claiming that A/B is better so I searched his name to see his other threads to find out what tek he's using exactly. I was never able to find anything except everyone else bashing him, so I just went ahead with Noman's tek (DMT For The Masses). El Ka Bong, please understand that you're not going to get your point across until you write out exact steps and exact yields. What tek did you use exactly? Does your >0.9% yield require fancy equipment and scheduled chemicals to obtain? How long does it take from start to finish? How many milligrams exactly did you get from 200g MHBR? You give out absolutely no actionable information, as if you've never really done the teks yourself but just came to your conclusions from browsing this forum. I wouldn't have minded cutting my MHBR in half and comparing both your tek and Lazy/Noman's side by side. I think most people would - just for their own sake, as we're ALL looking for higher yields, but there has to be a trade-off between pros and cons. If you're yielding 0.9% but your tek requires expensive equipment and weeks of time, then it might be more worthwhile for somebody else to use a tek that's known to give a maximum of 0.2% yield. Please understand that it's very very hard for anyone to believe you or for you to get your point across if you're showing no proof at all that you've ever even seen MHBR, let alone tried a tek. I'm sorry if I'm coming off harsh, but I'm tired of reading every single one of your threads and distilling ALL of them to into just the conclusion that your opinion is that A/B rapes STB. It's partly my fault for not doing more research on A/B or other teks, but most of us here are pressed for deadlines and don't have time to read every single nook and cranny of the Intertubes to find this info. Time is valuable. Where's your tek? What's the EXACT procedure, with numbers and units?
 
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i haven't read all of el ka's posts but I would also like to know any information on a/b teks that would lead to a .9% yield. Recently a friend named Swim got a .7% yield from 3 lbs using STB. 3lbs MRB yielded 10g of spice. Swim used Nomans tek. Swim also attempted a/b extractions twice, it was however swims first time extracting and got MUCH lower yields, three times lower to be exact.
 
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I'd say 0.7% is an average number for good quality MHRB - which ever tek is used. Swim's A-B tek is the standard one used to extract dmt - she has just practiced what she knows. This is swim's A-B tek- Just yielded 0.92% by evaporation. - Add just [b:cc06ac8e31]5 ml[/b:cc06ac8e31] of 35% HCl to 1.25 litres of deionized water to get pH 2.0 - 1.8. - use 250 ml acid deionized water at pH 2.0 per 30 g MHRB (pulverized). - using 150 g MHRB, you'll need 1.25 liters pH 2.0 water in a gallon wine jug w stopper. - leave at room temp over night but shake the heck out of the acid-soak as often as possible. No need to 'cook' it, just leave it for 10 - 24 hours and shake often ! - filter the extract well the next day (using good papers http://www.coleparmer.ca/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=0664805 ). You'll be able to store this purple, filtered extract with dmt stable. - repeat 2 more soaks of remaining MHRB with 1.25 L pH 2.0 water, and combine all filtered, acid extracts. Throw out MHRB after 3 acid soaks. - prepare a solution of 80 g lye in 250 ml hot water, let cool. - take approx. 3 litres of filtered, acid extract you collected and divide accross 5 quart jars (600 ml each) - add naphtha to acid extract (at room temp) using just 80 ml Ronsonol per 600 ml of purple extract. - basify to pH 11.5 with [b:cc06ac8e31]JUST 20- 30 ml [/b:cc06ac8e31]of the lye solution per jar ( a tiny bit of lye that's all to get to pH 11.5) - tumble each basified jar for 10 - 30 min, then remove naphtha - repeat 4 times. - Evaporate all collected naphtha, and get 0.7 - 0.9% yeild depending mostly on quality of MHRB By evaporating all the naphtha, maybe that gives another 0.1% yield..? But 0.7 - 0.9% has been achieved since she started trying. This is similar to STB-done-'right', I gather. Swim's only 'fancy' equipment is the Whatman brand filter papers. She has just glass turkey basters, a gallon sized glass wine jug, glass jars, funnels and patience. A pH meter was used once to confirm the colours of the solution when basifying - jet black colour appears at pH 11.5, so one can STOP adding lye. Also with the meter she learned that just 5 ml HCl in 1.25 litres makes pH 2.0. So by now, with the internet, dmt and all, I'd say I've 'seen' it all .. ! MHRB included, don't worry there ... ! But I have not done it all, which I admit. Catmolecule, swim started here; Erowid DMT Vaults : Extraction : QT's DMT Extraction Guide ... and got 0.7% yield the first time - it was amazingly satisfying, and it felt 'safe' and didn't ever 'hurt' . But I'm learning like you, just keep reading, experimenting and most importantly keep reporting !. Understand what you are doing, that's all I preach and rant about - and some of those links I post try to explain the chemistry as I understand it (but some are tedious to read...). I hear nobody offering a chemical 'explantion' for how or why STB works or fails. I'm interested to understand it if it can be described - I totally understand A/B extraction; we are intending on solubilizing dmt from a crude plant extract with A/B. But STB seems to 'beat the dmt' out of the root, and I prefer to 'coax' out every last molecule. With STB folks seem to have to wash, and recrystalize, but with evaporation from A-B extracted MHRB swim gets the gorgeous, pure product immediately. Here's my favorite analogy when it comes to noobies and teks - imagine we are all learning how to drive a car, taking driving lessons at God's Spirit Driving School and none of us noobies know how to drive yet. If you are like me you'd say that one ought to learn to drive God's car as a standard-transmission car, with gears, first. That's what I'd cue up for at God's driving school- standard transmission lessons...!~ But some folks choose to learn how to drive a car with an automatic transmission. They have this choice, and that's ok. Following this analogy, I claim and rant that one learns more about cars and their engines and how they work by appreciating how to run through all the 'gears'. This is just my opinion ... This I claim informs noobies more about car-mechanical-issues, and stuff under the hood, and how to fix things if they go wrong. Although we're stretching the metapohor, you could say that when I've learned how to drive standard (ie solubilize tryptamines in water), I can still 'drive an automatic' (ie 'beat the dmt out of the MHRB' in lye-soup) ... but is the reverse true..? Would a noobie even care anymore to learn to 'drive standard' when they can breeze along in an automatic..? Soon folks might ONLY know about driving automatics, and noobies might never care to learn the chemistry on how to maximize yield and quality, and safety.
 
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this is what reports have found.... pre-powdered bark is put into a crockpot that is mixed with a 1/2 H20 - 1/2 .5% acidity vinegar solution to the point where the solution is easy to stir and fairly thin. the first brew is done for *2-3 hrs of simmering* (until a crockpot gets VERY hot). Stirring is done as needed (more so when heating up to simmering level). The ceramic part of the crockpot (or metal pot) is put in a refrigerator for an hour or two (this GREATLY eases filtering) and the solution is then run through a metal coffee filter (the filtered solution is then run through the filter again, almost always getting more out). Reporters usually push all the solution through the filter until all the bark is semi-dry (not glimmering, etc.). A second brew is then done for longer (at a low simmer) and this process is repeated. Reporters have found it worthwhile to do up to *4 brews.* Also, reports have found it worthwhile to not rush the process and to filter the brews well and to cook them long! When all is said and done, reporters generally have 2 half-gallon mason jars over-halfway full with the 4 brews (2x filtered). in a separate container reporters would add 4-6 tablespoons of NaOH (sodium hydroxide/lye) to around 200 ml H2O which would then be added to the two containers. At this point naphtha is usually added by reporters in around 150-200 ml amounts and both containers are turned end over end for around 10 minutes. The reporters find they are able to extract almost all of the naphtha out of the jars using glass turkey basters and good coordination (and can always use a smaller container to get the remainder if need be). The container with the naphtha is then covered and left outside or in a safe ventilated spot away from humans and animals to evaporate until around half what it was before (or until crystals start forming or the naphtha gets cloudy) which can take a couple of days. There are often contaminates accidentally pulled in incredibly small amounts. These stay on the bottom of containers, so transferring the solvent into another container using a turkey baster is a quick, effective and useful tool. The container is covered with a plastic seal and put in a freezer on its coldest setting for a few days/until precipitation is complete, and the solution is poured into a jar and then slowly poured into another container in such a manner that any DMT which precipitated out but was floating in the solution stays in the jar. While this method can take anywhere from 6-14 days, reporters have found it to yield *perfect* results (in so far as a fifth brew was not worth brewing) and also yields mostly white with some *slight* yellow tint after the first recrystallization. Reporters had problems with StB prior to working towards this process.
 
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