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- Thread starter Molech
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Definitely agree with Global on that. ^
Also, from what I've seen around here, most of us have studied quite in depth Esoteric teachings and Occultism.
Most probably have their own unique practices and beliefs.
(Excluding of course the strict materialist/scienctific types)
I think like me, most here probably don't belong to a proper pagan group like Sabbatical Witches or Druids. But have collected ideas, practices and beliefs that fit their own unique paradigm. I could be wrong though!
I have a wide variety of magickal tools in my cavarvan, all collected on my path, all from completely different systems.
A weird blend of so many traditions, that the only group I would fit into, would be this one here. At the NEXUS!
Also, from what I've seen around here, most of us have studied quite in depth Esoteric teachings and Occultism.
Most probably have their own unique practices and beliefs.
(Excluding of course the strict materialist/scienctific types)
I think like me, most here probably don't belong to a proper pagan group like Sabbatical Witches or Druids. But have collected ideas, practices and beliefs that fit their own unique paradigm. I could be wrong though!
I have a wide variety of magickal tools in my cavarvan, all collected on my path, all from completely different systems.
A weird blend of so many traditions, that the only group I would fit into, would be this one here. At the NEXUS!
Pagan was more of a derrogetory term that was applied to "country dwellers" that usually practiced the old polytheistic(Im going to use that term lightly) religions of europe. It has become a blanket term now to mean anything non abrahamic it seems. There are not a whole lot of hard polytheists that I meet these days.
I am not convinced my ancestors were even hard polytheists though..from my studies of the Eddas I have gathered an undertone of allegory..though I think they were definatly animists and pantheists. There is a hint of pantheism IMO in the Voluspa where the "witch"/"bright one" reveals the prophecies and knowlege of the universe in a seid trance..and some people will heavily disagree with me. The (IMO) obvious link between the vedas and eddas alone would suggest a probable pantheist undertone.
I dont have a problem with the term "pagan" but I have come to use it less and less. I am more an animist and pantheist. Soft polytheism enivitably comes into play at some point when scales are involved within a pantheist cosmos.
For those who follow the old ways..those who would claim to be druids or "traditional" witches..I ask you..How? Not out of judgement..but just serious curriosity. I have spent years studying everything I can about "traditional witchcraft"(a term which itself comes with baggage and is not what those people called themselves) and old norse traditions, as well as anything about the druids. There was little in depth talk of this in my anthropolgy classes..and why? Becasue so little is known..especially when it comes to the druids..Almost nothing is known about the druids..noone even really knows who these people are. Anyone claiming to be druid anything at this point is creating something totally new based on scant evidence that remains..not much to go on. Nothing wrong with that I think it's a good thing..but these are just some of my conclusions after years of research on this whole subject.
Alot of pagan traditions like wicca(and the whole crowley etc occult movement) have been heavily influenced by Jewish Mysticism. Wicca itself is based just as heavily IMO on Jewish practices as it is on European(and other new age/indian) practices.
So what does "pagan" even mean to you?
If someone asked me at this point I would probly just say I am "gaian". Which also makes no sense historically..but then living historically doesnt always make sense anyway. Oh well..if you had everything, where would you put it?
I am not convinced my ancestors were even hard polytheists though..from my studies of the Eddas I have gathered an undertone of allegory..though I think they were definatly animists and pantheists. There is a hint of pantheism IMO in the Voluspa where the "witch"/"bright one" reveals the prophecies and knowlege of the universe in a seid trance..and some people will heavily disagree with me. The (IMO) obvious link between the vedas and eddas alone would suggest a probable pantheist undertone.
I dont have a problem with the term "pagan" but I have come to use it less and less. I am more an animist and pantheist. Soft polytheism enivitably comes into play at some point when scales are involved within a pantheist cosmos.
For those who follow the old ways..those who would claim to be druids or "traditional" witches..I ask you..How? Not out of judgement..but just serious curriosity. I have spent years studying everything I can about "traditional witchcraft"(a term which itself comes with baggage and is not what those people called themselves) and old norse traditions, as well as anything about the druids. There was little in depth talk of this in my anthropolgy classes..and why? Becasue so little is known..especially when it comes to the druids..Almost nothing is known about the druids..noone even really knows who these people are. Anyone claiming to be druid anything at this point is creating something totally new based on scant evidence that remains..not much to go on. Nothing wrong with that I think it's a good thing..but these are just some of my conclusions after years of research on this whole subject.
Alot of pagan traditions like wicca(and the whole crowley etc occult movement) have been heavily influenced by Jewish Mysticism. Wicca itself is based just as heavily IMO on Jewish practices as it is on European(and other new age/indian) practices.
So what does "pagan" even mean to you?
If someone asked me at this point I would probly just say I am "gaian". Which also makes no sense historically..but then living historically doesnt always make sense anyway. Oh well..if you had everything, where would you put it?
"I think like me, most here probably don't belong to a proper pagan group like Sabbatical Witches or Druids. But have collected ideas, practices and beliefs that fit their own unique paradigm. I could be wrong though"
Yeah..my point is that anyone claiming to be a "sabbatical witch"(w/e that even means) or Druid is already practicing something that has been made up recently to fit they're own paradigm. It is better that we move forward today with what works for us today anyway. Most "pagans" I come across are not polytheists anyway and describe something more like an animist or pantheist worldview. The whole pagan reconstruction thing itself I see to be partly based on assumptions that might not even be accurate.
You want to know? Go into nature. It's all still there.
Yeah..my point is that anyone claiming to be a "sabbatical witch"(w/e that even means) or Druid is already practicing something that has been made up recently to fit they're own paradigm. It is better that we move forward today with what works for us today anyway. Most "pagans" I come across are not polytheists anyway and describe something more like an animist or pantheist worldview. The whole pagan reconstruction thing itself I see to be partly based on assumptions that might not even be accurate.
You want to know? Go into nature. It's all still there.
frozenthunderbolt
Rising Star
Mz.Gypzy said:Definitely agree with Global on that. ^
Also, from what I've seen around here, most of us have studied quite in depth Esoteric teachings and Occultism.
Most probably have their own unique practices and beliefs.
(Excluding of course the strict materialist/scienctific types)
I think like me, most here probably don't belong to a proper pagan group like Sabbatical Witches or Druids. But have collected ideas, practices and beliefs that fit their own unique paradigm. I could be wrong though!
I have a wide variety of magickal tools in my cavarvan, all collected on my path, all from completely different systems.
A weird blend of so many traditions, that the only group I would fit into, would be this one here. At the NEXUS!
^^^ This
Occult spiritualist / eclectic pagan with druidic and astaru leanings
Kroovistos
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
I guess I would be considered Pagan in the traditional sense in that I am not Christian nor do I adhere to any Judeo-Abrahamic beliefs. I am not a polytheistic Pagan though; my main spiritual philosophy is that of pantheism and I think every person, organism, or substance has the ability to reach godhood in some way or another.
Mz.Gypzy : QUOTE " Also, from what I've seen around here, most of us have studied quite in depth Esoteric teachings and Occultism."
Thats kinda strange when you think about it.
I was started buying UFO mags about 25 years ago and went on to magic, occult,ancient history also generaly questioning things like space, infinity, gravity and i have ended up with Changa:thumb_up:
You can have Gods but they cant help you, only you can. My opinion.
:twisted:
Thats kinda strange when you think about it.
I was started buying UFO mags about 25 years ago and went on to magic, occult,ancient history also generaly questioning things like space, infinity, gravity and i have ended up with Changa:thumb_up:
You can have Gods but they cant help you, only you can. My opinion.
:twisted:
Hey Jamie, I agree with all you said there.
Just wanted to clear up some stuff, in case you
misunderstood me.
I was not claiming I was a "Sabbatical Witch or Druid".
I pulled those terms from the OP's original question, while trying to convey that I have never been a part of a particular
Group of "pagans" that have have a certain type of practice.
I was trying to say that I think most of us have evolved out of such paradigms into more unique personal practices. Those practices of course being influenced by whatever "Occult"
Or "Pagan" beliefs/ideas a person fancies.
Not sure if there was a misunderstanding?
I don't like to Pigeon-hole myself with restricting terms.
I'm sure many of us here could call ourselves Witches, Shamans, Yogis, Magicians or whatever...etc,etc.
Or not...
I consider myself a Mystic. To me, that word encompasses all of the ideas and practices that fall into my paradigm.
I could go on to explain what my practices and beliefs are, but I don't think it is important for others to know, as it is personal.
It boils down to Semantics as well, because we know most people have different definitions to words.
Molech asked a broad question, I guess I was trying to answer him by saying.......
YES, you do have kin here, but we might be harder to nail down with those types of Pigeon-hole terms.
Just wanted to clear up some stuff, in case you
misunderstood me.
I was not claiming I was a "Sabbatical Witch or Druid".
I pulled those terms from the OP's original question, while trying to convey that I have never been a part of a particular
Group of "pagans" that have have a certain type of practice.
I was trying to say that I think most of us have evolved out of such paradigms into more unique personal practices. Those practices of course being influenced by whatever "Occult"
Or "Pagan" beliefs/ideas a person fancies.
Not sure if there was a misunderstanding?
I don't like to Pigeon-hole myself with restricting terms.
I'm sure many of us here could call ourselves Witches, Shamans, Yogis, Magicians or whatever...etc,etc.
Or not...
I consider myself a Mystic. To me, that word encompasses all of the ideas and practices that fall into my paradigm.
I could go on to explain what my practices and beliefs are, but I don't think it is important for others to know, as it is personal.
It boils down to Semantics as well, because we know most people have different definitions to words.
Molech asked a broad question, I guess I was trying to answer him by saying.......
YES, you do have kin here, but we might be harder to nail down with those types of Pigeon-hole terms.
lols, Hai!
Pagan was just meant as a broad term that i hoped to encompas everyone other than the Abrahamic book religeous types.
Speaking of books. just started "Veneficum" by Daniel Shulke.
Hopefully a trip report to follow some time this afternoon.
Pagan was just meant as a broad term that i hoped to encompas everyone other than the Abrahamic book religeous types.
Speaking of books. just started "Veneficum" by Daniel Shulke.
Hopefully a trip report to follow some time this afternoon.
waitwhatwhere
Rising Star
I would definitely identify as a shaman, mystic or magician. I'd also echo Jamie's sentiments on the difficulty of claiming specific "Pagan" lineages. I was raised without religion. That said, entheogens have left me with a lot of spiritual experiences that I would simply lack a coherent vocabulary to speak about without venturing into mythology and epistimology. I'll readily lift concepts from Abramic, Eastern, and Hermetic traditions as quickly as I might from the indegenous tribes in North America. I'm a big ontological slut. So yeah, I like the Gnostics, too.
A quick bit of research on the cultural context of entheogens will quickly bring one to ethnobotanical study of a variety of shamanic cultural practices, some extant, many presumed, but extinct. Some, like the Ayahuasqueros of the Amazon have their beliefs intact and hold ideas about spirits and the universe that their ancestors would readily agree with. Others, like for instance the Zapatecs in Oaxaca, Mexico, are still taking entheogens like teonanácatl and ololuiqui but obfuscate them with syncretic indigenous/Catholic motifs.
I believe that humanity has had contact with the states of consciousness evoked by entheogens for a very long time and that today it represents sacred secret knowledge actively repressed by what, stripped of political jargon, could be called an Evil Empire. The altered states of perception accessible through entheogens often reposition the user's sense of place in the universe to one of unity, which deprograms some of the basic cultural conditioning we've been fed that helps global capitalism function. So, repression.
In a way, there are 7 billion little gods running around on planet earth, so I find it easy to identify as polytheistic. I like the Indian perspective, in that Hindus can share a culture without necessarily agreeing on the nature of god: there are Hindu polytheists, pantheists, monotheists, henotheists, even atheists. I probably got this seeming ambivalence towards theology from being raised without religion, but I rather like to think it's learned ambivalence that respects the complexity and positionality of the topic in a Zen sort of way.
Anyhow. Pagan here, reporting for duty. What do we do now?
A quick bit of research on the cultural context of entheogens will quickly bring one to ethnobotanical study of a variety of shamanic cultural practices, some extant, many presumed, but extinct. Some, like the Ayahuasqueros of the Amazon have their beliefs intact and hold ideas about spirits and the universe that their ancestors would readily agree with. Others, like for instance the Zapatecs in Oaxaca, Mexico, are still taking entheogens like teonanácatl and ololuiqui but obfuscate them with syncretic indigenous/Catholic motifs.
I believe that humanity has had contact with the states of consciousness evoked by entheogens for a very long time and that today it represents sacred secret knowledge actively repressed by what, stripped of political jargon, could be called an Evil Empire. The altered states of perception accessible through entheogens often reposition the user's sense of place in the universe to one of unity, which deprograms some of the basic cultural conditioning we've been fed that helps global capitalism function. So, repression.
In a way, there are 7 billion little gods running around on planet earth, so I find it easy to identify as polytheistic. I like the Indian perspective, in that Hindus can share a culture without necessarily agreeing on the nature of god: there are Hindu polytheists, pantheists, monotheists, henotheists, even atheists. I probably got this seeming ambivalence towards theology from being raised without religion, but I rather like to think it's learned ambivalence that respects the complexity and positionality of the topic in a Zen sort of way.
Anyhow. Pagan here, reporting for duty. What do we do now?
Waitwhatwhere, many paths, one mountain ey. In as far as reporting for duty, once i have the answer, i'll let you know. I hope i'm not going to be disapointed searching the Abyssal Gardens, but it is what i'm looking for.
Fortunately for me the records from the Salem Witch trials provided a record of lineage. At least to pre christian cunning craft roots. Not that any of thats important to my personal spiritual expiriences, hence why the book of shadows is blank, it's your journey.
Spiritual, not religeous would have been a better question to ask i think. i didn't mean to seem exclusive, but as they say, birds of a feather...
nice to meet you all
Fortunately for me the records from the Salem Witch trials provided a record of lineage. At least to pre christian cunning craft roots. Not that any of thats important to my personal spiritual expiriences, hence why the book of shadows is blank, it's your journey.
Spiritual, not religeous would have been a better question to ask i think. i didn't mean to seem exclusive, but as they say, birds of a feather...
nice to meet you all
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