Panaeolus Cyans vs Psilocybe Cubensis

[Bancopuma]

would you say they are less anxiety inducing than others? more euphoric even? Thanks

I would say they are almost without any anxiety.
Panaeolus are quite vigorous and clear.
And they are way more euphoric.

Whoa. Now I'm interested.

I have 100+ cube trips under my belt and it's all I've tried. As I get older, (and more generally anxious due to life's responsibilities and keeping up with bills) I've found the last few trips to be more on the uncomfortable side and have almost given up on them. The body load and anxiety is difficult for me, I'm more interested in visuals. But cyans and natalensis have peaked my interest for sure. I may take up cultivation again even if it's just one tub.

I must point out, that even though theShroomery is the place to be, I absolutely love that the Nexus has a section dedicated to this.

Hey widderic,

Natalensis and Pan cyans definitely sound like they might be worth sampling, and I'd be interested hearing about how you get on. Natalensis has definitely rekindled my interest in growing, and I also want to delve back into growing Pan cyan, as these are top-tier mushrooms in my experience. I've stumbled across a particular cultivar of Pan cyan 'Estero' which sounds interesting, it's meant to be particularly potent, and a particularly tenacious culture to grow, and I'd really like to give it a whirl when I can. And yes I agree it is nice to have a myco domain as part of the forum where fun-gis and fun-gals can hang out :thumb_up:

 

[doubledog]

Imo Cubensis should be used only in case when no other mushrooms are available, otherwise they have little to offer. They are mostly for beginners, I do not know any advanced user who prefers them.

It seems that some of us are going to try not only Natalensis, but also Pan cyans . I always thought that growing it is very difficult, but we will see.

I have once tried Pan cyans, but only in the mix with other species (it was quite crazy combination of P. Cubensis, P. Strictipes, P. Arcana and Pan cyans), so could not distinguish their character or style.

 

[dithyramb]

In traditional usage of Mexico, cubensis is looked at exactly how doubledog says - for use only in the case where there are no other alternatives available. "They get the job done" but they are not preferred.

How lucky are we as Eurasia where the most abundant wild psilocybin mushroom (semilanceata) is on par with the most preferred species in Mexico - P. mexicana, and described as the favorite or one of the favorites of all who tried them.

 

[dragonrider]

This is just a wild guess, but i think that it's either bacteria or mycotoxins that are responsible for the qualitative difference between cubensis and the species that are more potent by weight/volume.

If raw or dried mushrooms contain a certain amount bacteria per gram of material, then the less of material infested with those bacteria you need to ingest to achieve certain effects, the less likely you are to experience potential side effects from the presence of these bacteria. Like possibly bacterial toxins, present within the material itself, or produced inside your body after ingestion.

We usually don't heat psychedelic mushrooms to temperatures high enough to kill most of the bacteria present within them, like we would do with portobello's or other edible mushrooms, because heating likely would destroy the psilocin as well.

And even portobellos, grown for eating, often contain substances when uncooked, that are considered slightly toxic, like agaritine, hydrazine or formaldehyde.

I find it typical that those shrooms that produce the nicest, cleanest and smoothest experiences, are also the ones with the highest contents of psilocin and psilocybin.

To me that suggests that there is something in the not psycho active materials that mushrooms consist of, that somehow has a negative impact.

 

[dithyramb]

Heating does not make mushrooms inactive. Psilocybin is known to be stable at boiling temperature for sure, psilocin could also be. I have used boiled liberty cap tea before. So you can go ahead and try boiling cubensis to put your theory to test.

I personally suspect serotonin to be a gentleness/smoothness/lucidness factor. It seems to be present in Panaeolus species.

 

[dragonrider]

But isn't serotonin also present in cubensis?

 

[Bancopuma]

Serotonin doesn't pass the blood-brain barrier, so it is doubtful that it is modulating the psilocybin experience. However there might be serotonin precursor compounds in the mushroom (possibly varying between species) that could perhaps exert an influence. But I hear you dragonrider, I do think there could be other secondary compounds in Cubensis that modulate the experience to some degree, and make it a little muddier and foggier in some way, and less lucid and clean...whatever it is might be what washes out a lot of the colour of the Cubensis experience (at least for me - profound difference in technicolour effects between Cubensis and Pan cyan and Azurescens), and give it its possibly slightly darker/edgier vibe, and maybe contribute to body load. Whatever this might be, it seems to be completely absent from the Pan cyans (and Mexicana) I have experienced, which in comparison just feel incredibly clean and smooth on the body with far more vivid technicolour visuals.

It seems that some of us are going to try not only Natalensis, but also Pan cyans . I always thought that growing it is very difficult, but we will see.

Hey doubledog, growing Pan cyans is definitely a little more fiddly than growing Natalensis/Cubensis, with tweaks to substrate and fruiting conditions required, but the basic process is the same, and growing them certainly shouldn't be considered as very difficult.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Serotonin doesn't pass the blood-brain barrier, [...]

Hey doubledog, growing Pan cyans is definitely a little more fiddly than growing Pan cyans, with tweaks to substrate and fruiting conditions required, but the basic process is the same, and growing them certainly shouldn't be considered as very difficult.

Would ingested serotonin contribute to nausea, though? Kind of contra to the increased smoothness idea, I know - I suppose it depends on the relative kĭs of psilocin and serotonin at the 5HT3 receptor (or whichever).

And presumably you mean "... more fiddly than growing natalensis... "?

 

[dithyramb]

Perhaps it does not need to cross the blood brain barrier to have an effect?

 

[Bancopuma]

Serotonin doesn't pass the blood-brain barrier, [...]

Hey doubledog, growing Pan cyans is definitely a little more fiddly than growing Pan cyans, with tweaks to substrate and fruiting conditions required, but the basic process is the same, and growing them certainly shouldn't be considered as very difficult.

Would ingested serotonin contribute to nausea, though? Kind of contra to the increased smoothness idea, I know - I suppose it depends on the relative kĭs of psilocin and serotonin at the 5HT3 receptor (or whichever).

And presumably you mean "... more fiddly than growing natalensis... "?

Given the amount of serotonin receptors in the gut, definitely feasible for some kind of interaction on that front. Ha yes and you're right, that's indeed what I meant - have edited for clarity, thanks :thumb_up:

Perhaps it does not need to cross the blood brain barrier to have an effect?

Possibly, but I'm not sure through what mechanism it would have a noticeable effect without impacting the serotoninergic system that the psilocybin is also working on. If there is serotonin knocking around in the fungus, by extension that means there will also be serotonin precursor compounds present which could be bioactive to some degree, so I don't think their potential influence should be overlooked even if the serotonon itself might not be exerting an influence.