Passionoxia (Passionflower + D. inoxia = EUPHORIA + VISUALS!)

[69ron]

Does Datura discolor have a lot of scopolamine like Datura inoxia does?

SWIM thinks so, he's tried inoxia and hasn't noticed a lot of difference in appearance or effect.



Update:
SWIM went to bed about 2.5 hours after taking the combo and positively had CEVs. They were subtle and a bit fuzzy, but for SWIM they are on 25g of P.torch too.

SWIM's dreams were very different than usual, very long and very detailed.

COOL!

I've read that scopolamine was the main alkaloids of Datura discolor. But I can't find any numbers to back up that claim.

This combination might be the golden key that unlocks scopolamine's psychedelic effects at safe doses. The effect felt like more than just passionflower at play.


The test SWIM did last night using Datura stramonium and passionflower was short acting, much shorter than when using with Datura inoxia, but at 30 minutes during the peak it was much stronger. The visual effects are very strong. Things looked wavy, and colors were brighter. There were all sorts of pleasant but unusual body sensations, sort of like being in a swimming pool with waves of sensations from the water hitting your body. It was VERY NICE. I think Datura inoxia would do the same if the dose was higher.

The main alkaloid of passionflower is a sedative. Scopolamine is also a sedative. Hyoscyamine is a stimulant. I think it’s scopolamine that’s greatly enhancing the psychedelic effects of passionflower and hyoscyamine that’s suppressing them. Datura stramonium seeds usually have more scopolamine than Datura inoxia seeds do, but they are high in hyoscyamine too. It’s my understanding that scopolamine has a faster onset, especially if you chew the seeds, so that it will peak before hyoscyamine peaks, if chewed. SWIM felt two distinct peaks last night, one at 30 minutes that was very psychedelic, and another at 1 hour that felt exactly like Datura stromonium does on it’s own. I think at the 1 hour point hyoscyamine was peaking and it suppressed the effects of the passionflower.

SWIM will like to venture deeper into this effect. There were no side effects noticed. It was very euphoric, and uniquely psychedelic. I can easily imagine having CEVs on this combination.

The combination of Datura inoxia and passionflower is almost as nice as Datura stramonium and mescaline. I never thought passionflower could be that psychedelic no matter what you mixed with it. I think the passionflower is enhancing the psychedelic effects of scopolamine and visa versa.


Out of all the 100% legal herb combinations, this is probably the most impressive SWIM has experienced. It’s surprisingly effective for such a small amount of herbs.

The combination is maybe 10 times more psychedelic than passionflower is on its own even at very high doses. At least for SWIM. He’s had tons of passionflower in the past in an attempt to get hallucinations from it when he was a teen, and it never worked, it just became more stoning with very slight visual effects. Although with the eyes closed, some light CEVs were present. This combination with Datura inoxia far surpassed anything he’s ever experienced from massive doses of passionflower.

 

[q21q21]

This combination might be the golden key that unlocks scopolamine's psychedelic effects at safe doses. The effect felt like more than just passionflower at play.

oh that is WITHOUT A DOUBT, SWIM has taken 3 tbsp of passionflower and the effect were mild enough to barely notice them.

Also SWIM found that he was still a little fuzzy waking up at +10 hours in.

Not only that but he drank some yerba maté, his usually dose, 1.5 tbsp and the effects MUCH stronger than usual.
He one tried yerba with a small dose of caapi (maybe 5g) and felt something similar...

Maybe scopolamine IS a MAOI (RIMA) potentiator as odd as that would sound.
Maybe maté too... or maybe maté just rules

 

[69ron]

This combination might be the golden key that unlocks scopolamine's psychedelic effects at safe doses. The effect felt like more than just passionflower at play.

oh that is WITHOUT A DOUBT, SWIM has taken 3 tbsp of passionflower and the effect were mild enough to barely notice them.

Also SWIM found that he was still a little fuzzy waking up at +10 hours in.

That’s exactly how it was with the Datura inoxia. The next day after awaking, it could still be felt. Not so when Datura stramonium was used instead. There is something very unusual going on there. With Datura inoxia, the effect of the passionflower was much stronger, and lasted longer that it would normally last.

Not knowing what a large dose of Datura inoxia feels like, I couldn’t say for sure if the combination potentiated the effects of the Datura inoxia’s scopolamine or not, but my guess is that the passionflower potentiated the psychedelic effects of scopolamine, but didn’t potentiate the side effects of it (dry mouth, forgetfulness, etc.). If that’s true, maybe this combination will allow a full blown scopolamine trip to happen at a safe dose without all the side effects of the normally high dose that’s needed for a scopolamine trip?

SWIM is not about to test that out though. It’s just a thought.

I would love to hear from someone who’s experienced a full blown scopolamine trip. Does this combination bare similarities to such a scopolamine trip or is this effect something unique to the combination?

Not only that but he drank some yerba maté, his usually dose, 1.5 tbsp and the effects MUCH stronger than usual.
He one tried yerba with a small dose of caapi (maybe 5g) and felt something similar...

SWIM is out of maté He had coffee instead. There was no potentiation of the coffee.

Maybe scopolamine IS a MAOI (RIMA) potentiator as odd as that would sound.
Maybe maté too... or maybe maté just rules

Yerba maté just rules.

You know, I’ve read yerba maté is a mild MAOI. I didn’t see the source for that claim though.

I would love to know just exactly how this combination is working. As a combination they are many times more potent than they are on their own. The dose SWIM used is barely noticeable for each one on its own, but when the low doses of passionflower and Datura inoxia are mixed, it’s WAY STRONGER than you would ever expect it to be.

It makes you wonder if some MAOI-like activity played a part or not. Passionflower is a very weak MAOI, and I’ve not heard of scopolamine or Datura inoxia having that type of effect. But who knows. There is something unusual going on, that’s for sure.

This is probably the most interesting legal herb combination I’ve ever run across. The effect is undoubtedly psychedelic in it’s own unique way.

What other herb or drug would you say this combination is the most like?

 

[q21q21]

I would love to hear from someone who’s experienced a full blown scopolamine trip. Does this combination bare similarities to such a scopolamine trip or is this effect something unique to the combination?

SWIM hasn't done full-blown and after trying .75ml of his tincture (transdermally) he decided not to, he got less visuals than the .5ml yet more side effects... somehow

This on the other hand was nothing like that at all.

While for SWIM it wasn't obviously euphoric, neither is LSD or caapi (though he does enjoy them) or even MDMA (which he doesn't enjoy), but he could definitely understand how it could be euphoric to some and he enjoyed it quite so.

The plain scopolamine (or the transdermally active alkaloids in datura discolor more specifically) SWIM could not imaging it being euphoric at all.
Although some people say benedryl/Dramamine is euphoric...

 

[q21q21]

WHOA!!! SWIM had his second ever lucid dream a full day after taken the combination. (not sure if it helped, he'd like to think so)

Just as a background, SWIM has been studying lucid dreams for a while, he tries to "reality check" every time he thinks of it, he knows the signs and everything.

He once got *almost lucid* about a year and a half ago.
He's suspected that he was dreaming dozens of times and either woken up right after or made an incredibly illogical excuse.
ie: one time he told his *dream friends* he thought he was sleepwalking, other times he attributed the weird feelings/surroundings/situations to taking psychedelics or more often being drunk.

On Jan 22, 2010 he had his first completely lucid dream, it was amazing and trippy and awesome. He felt he had unlocked the key, figuratively, to becoming lucid.
But to his ongoing frustration in the week following his dreams were normal and no chance for lucidity was found.
He had 2 or 3 dreams notable in his psychedelic journal, but just dreams memorable enough for him to think "why didn't I become lucid?"

He has been experimenting with harmalas from rue, curcumin (turmeric extract), damaina and thujone (wormwood extract) which all made dreams different, but never made him lucid.

The first night after he took 2.5g passionflower and 8 datura discolors he had wild dreams but seemed to be tripping too hard and went in and out of REM during the night.

This time he had a long deep REM from 11:30pm to 4:30am and became completely lucid.
Oddly it was different from the first time, though during the non-lucid portion he saw a few friendly faces, the lucid part was pretty scary to be honest.

Anyway, there could be a chance that the passionflower+datura had nothing to do with it, either way SWIM will post his (quite obscene and uncensored, sorry) report:

fully lucid again... the dream world is FUCKED UP!

Before the lucidity I remember some bits, I was in a place similar to the coaches room where I work and I think it had an odd gym beside it. It did however connect with "my house" of the dream world which was all wooden with railings all over the place and lots of people I didn't know.

I remember somehow checking Cameron's facebook page and it had full ass gay fucking and dick sucking on it. I was like "err... ummm" He's like "didn't you know..." and I'm like "Well ya... but uhhh *clearly grosses out*" I start walking towards where I became lucid later and I suddenly "woke up"

but when I woke something just didn't feel right.... I looked around and I was like... wtf... there really wasn't just one thing.

First thing I checked the clarity, it was really cool because it 100% clear, I could see bits of dust on the windowsill (it wasn't my windowsill)

I made sure to stay calm, definitely not comfy in this fucked up place yet.

As I walked towards outside and went upstairs up wooden stairs I heard Atul (you know the roomie from the bsmt apartment @ keele st) and I really didn't want to talk to him so I though "go away" and he's like "okay man never mind"

I was freeking messed up and I saw all these people I didn't know at all upstairs, I was a little giddy, on the way out the completely unfamiliar door I though to myself... " in waking life he could remember where he lived or his name... hmmmm... I'm A*** D***** I live at 45**5 Fle.... shit if I think that too much I'll wake up!"I went out and I really wanted to find some cute girls, I looked around and saw dozens of cats, and I'm like "yes! cats! er... fuck no, I don't want cats I want girls!"

All I found was fucking grannies though, I somehow ended up in "my house" again and went outside to the same daylight scenery. But when I went to find girls again I saw another fucking granny through the window and then these 2 crazy fat monsters showed up and they were loosely colored like the joker, but really blotchy... I was like "that's not what I want.... maybe I'll make them explode..." I totally pictured and told them to explode... but they didn't and there was 2 of them and they were zombie'ing at me and it was scary as shit. I stepped back before they touched me and though "I have to wake up"

Holy shit making yourself wake up feels WEIRD, it's like you feel your bodys slowly squirm and it is of course paralyzed so it only moves a little for the first 5 sec or so. Luckily it worked just fine and I woke up exclaiming "that was fucked up!"

 

[69ron]

Q21q21, both passionflower and Datura on their own are known for aiding lucid dreaming. It stands to reason that the combination would be even more effective.

I mastered lucid dreaming when I was younger. After a while I could do pretty much anything I wanted in the dreams, I could fly, I had magic powers, I could make people appear and disappear at will, I could change everything in the dream, I was GOD. It was fun at first, but it became boring. There was no challenge to the dreams anymore. Nothing scared me anymore. Even the most horrible monster could be turned into a beautiful sex crazed woman in seconds.

After a while it feels like you’re playing chess with yourself and it’s no fun anymore so I stopped doing it.

I still have lucid dreams occasionally, but I no longer try to. Now when I realize I’m dreaming, I’ll take advantage of it (usually by having sex with a hot girl in the dream) and then I’ll forget I’m dreaming. I don’t make it a point to stay conscious of it being a dream. I enjoy it more if I don’t have complete control over the dream.

 

[polytrip]

I've had full blown datura trip's. From one i can hardly remember anything, except a weird string of incongruent images, wich could be pretty much what the actual trip was like, since i was lucky enough to have some good sitters around who've told me that i was completely off this world and that at one moment they even had to stop me when i said to them that i was looking for a knife because i wanted to start 'slicing things through'.

The other datura trips, i do have memory's of and even pretty clear ones. This is partly because the dose of the other datura trips was significantly lower than of that 'lost' one but also because i'd taken LSD with them.

I believe that LSD somehow counteracted the negative effects datura normally has. LSD has an effect on many different receptors of many different systems of the brain and possibly one of those systems when activated, can counterbalance the effects of tropanes so that you can experience their effects without becoming comletely delerious.

The trips i've had with the combination LSD, datura and passionflower are definately among the most intense ones i had. The only thing that compare's to it is extremely large amounts of ayahuasca taken at night or in a darkened environment.

 

[69ron]

Polytrip, have you ever tried just passionflower and Datura inoxia in the doses used in the opening post (2 tablespoons passionflower and 5 Datura inoxia seeds)?

For SWIM the combination is unlike passionflower is on its own. Its much more psychedelic than passionflower ever is, even at massive doses.

This is a most interesting combination. I would like to know if you find this anything like a full blown Datura trip or not, or if this is a completely unique experience.

 

[polytrip]

Well, i would not call datura specifically euphoric, so i guess it's realy more a synergy thing than purely enhanced datura effects.

Since the experience where i nearly lost my mind, i've pretty musch stayed away from datura.

The effects of the pure datura trip are extremely hard to describe, but totally unlike normal psychedelic's. Visuals are maybe a bit 5-MeO-DMT like, because everything you see is blurred. Your normal vision is blurred so much that basically everything could be a hallucination. Even at lower doses, that's a typical effect of datura. Things become more vague, spotty. As if seeing through a haze.
And there's a very sedated feeling. A bit like valium or very bad weed.

With LSD, it's different because the LSD just dominates the whole experience then. Hallucinations where very spectacular and vivid. Often it was like i was in the middle of a peter jackson movie like lord of the rings: you see awesome landscapes and spectacular light effects. Unlike pure datura where everything is blurred, with LSD everything became incredibly vivid.
When passionflower came in the mix, it did seem to add a lot of energy to the experience, but i have this with just LSD and passionflower as well. Passionflower greatly enhances the visuals of LSD and makes them more energetic, they morph at a faster rate and they seem more detailed.

I think datura is just very sensitive to other substances, so that there is no way to experience a full blown datura trip safely on a combo of substances.

5-MeO-DMT CEV's are the most like pure datura hallucinations in that they are pale and dark, but 5-MeO-DMT hallucinations are vivid and immersive, wich datura on it's own isn't.

 

[69ron]

Polytrip, you haven't tried the passionflower + Datura inoxia combo on it's own? Only with LSD in the mix?

 

[polytrip]

yes, that's true.

 

[69ron]

SWIM tried this combination a few more times since the first time and he seems to be getting tolerance to it. Each new attempt was weaker than the previous attempt.

I think you need to skip several days between use or tolerance develops. SWIM tried it every other day a few days in a row, and it got weaker and weaker.

If you want to try this combination and you have the standard passionflower with all the twigs in it, it's probably going to take more than 2 tablespoons for this to work. The common passionflower most vendors have is the kind with lots of twigs and it is much weaker because of all the twigs. For SWIM's first attempt he used 2 tablespoons of high quality passionflower that had leaves only, no twigs. The leaves are much stronger than the twigs. I think if you use the kind with all the twigs you'll need to use 3-4 tablespoons, and not 2.

SWIM really likes this combination, and found that coffee increases the euphoria.

I imagine this would go real nicely with mescaline too

 

[Seven]

Swim tried this the other day (2.5 tablespoons leaf, 6 inoxia seeds), and he also felt the euphoria. Within an hour my mood seemed to be uplifted, and effects slowly trailed off throughout the day. Swim did also drank some yerba and it seemed to go nicely with it as well. Good find Ron!

 

[q21q21]

SWIM tried this combination a few more times since the first time and he seems to be getting tolerance to it. Each new attempt was weaker than the previous attempt.

I think you need to skip several days between use or tolerance develops. SWIM tried it every other day a few days in a row, and it got weaker and weaker.

If you want to try this combination and you have the standard passionflower with all the twigs in it, it's probably going to take more than 2 tablespoons for this to work. The common passionflower most vendors have is the kind with lots of twigs and it is much weaker because of all the twigs. For SWIM's first attempt he used 2 tablespoons of high quality passionflower that had leaves only, no twigs. The leaves are much stronger than the twigs. I think if you use the kind with all the twigs you'll need to use 3-4 tablespoons, and not 2.

SWIM really likes this combination, and found that coffee increases the euphoria.

I imagine this would go real nicely with mescaline too

SWIM noticed that too, he took his seconds dose which was 2.5tbsp with 11 (instead of 8 ) daturas 48 hours after the first and it was maybe 70% of the first


~~~~~~~~~~~
SWIM is currently testing the combo with 31g worth of dried P.Torch brew (14 minutes in)

He feels pretty lame writing "the datura + passionflower combo" any thoughts on some better names, this is clearly a very nice combo that deserves a good name.

hmmmm...

Datura-incarnata
Jimson-passion

.... that's all I've got.

 

[69ron]

Q21q21, I agree, this needs a nicer sounding name.

Some ayahuasca is made solely of Banisteriopsis caapi and Brugmansia suaveolens. That’s the closest thing I know of resembling this combination. Passionflower has harmala alkaloids similar to Banisteriopsis caapi and Datura inoxia has scopolamine like Brugmansia suaveolens.

Some more possible names:

Passionoxia (my favorite, a mix of the names passionflower and Datura inoxia)
Datura-passion
Passion-moon (Datura inoxia is also called moon flower)
Passion-tolo (Datura inoxia is also called toloatzin, or toloache)

 

[q21q21]

Passionoxia sounds great, *I dub thee* haha

so as far as the mescaline + passionoxia combo the sedation has lasted at about the same strength up until now (T=+9:13) and caffiene didn't seem to help.

he took a slightly larger dose than last 12 seeds + 3 level Tbsp passionflower and it has more than overcome ALL the stimulation from 31g of torch.
It did not really seem to increase the visuals, but neither did the datura stramonium, SWIM's a hard hard hardhead when it comes to visuals though.

He figures the sedation lasts either as long or longer than the mescaline itself so this is going to be his choice for high doses of torch.
He was a little fearful of taking a large dose because he gets very restless while very stimulated (aint that the definition?)

He'll probably take 1.5 tbsp with 8 seeds when he feels the need for his next mescal trip, it will be at least 50g though.

 

[digglover]

This was a solid combo 69ron!
I used 4tbsp of "regular" passionflower (twiggy and from FV) and 6 datura inoxia seeds.
Tea was steeped for 15 minutes and the seeds were chewed and held in my mouth for 4 minutes.
The effects began to take hold in about 20 minutes and were with me for at least a couple hours before bed.

Effects: No CEV or OEV. It gave a very comfortable euphoria similar to mild marijuana buzz. It lacked any cloudy feeling or "dumbness." Overall, I would say that it is a very pleasant, mild (but definitely noticeable) euphoria.

I will have to try with stramonium and see if I can get the visuals.

 

[69ron]

SWIM has not had impressive effects with the twiggy passionflower. Sometimes FV carries the higher quality stuff without the twigs. If you ever see that anywhere, get it. It's much stronger and tastes better. The twigs are weak and not so good tasting.

SWIM has tried several times to replicate his first experience (which used leaf only passionflower) by using the twiggy stuff instead, and he's not been able to get impressive effects so far, even by doubling the dose of passionflower used.

If you can't find the leaf only passionflower, the next best thing is probably the flowers available at some vendors.

 

[digglover]

I'm looking online and none of the tea shops are specifying the quality of their leaf which is irritating.
What are your thoughts on passionflower extract?

KTBotanicals says

Researchers have found that Passion Flower Petals and Buds have a higher alkaloid content than the foliage.

I'll try and find some of these. KTB is sold out.

This also may be a viable source of passionflower leaf.

http://www.starwest-botanicals.com/category/passion-flower-leaf/

 

[69ron]

I'm looking online and none of the tea shops are specifying the quality of their leaf which is irritating.
What are your thoughts on passionflower extract?

KTBotanicals says

Researchers have found that Passion Flower Petals and Buds have a higher alkaloid content than the foliage.

I'll try and find some of these. KTB is sold out.

This also may be a viable source of passionflower leaf.

http://www.starwest-botanicals.com/category/passion-flower-leaf/

The flower petals and buds sold by KTB are excellent, almost as good as the pure leaf passionflower.

I’ve not tried starwest YET, but others I’ve bought that said they were “passionflower leaf” were not, they contained mostly stems.

FV used to sell just the leaf, but they don’t have it currently. The second best to the pure leaf is the flower buds and petals.

Other than getting those parts of the passionflower, SWIM has found that simply increasing the Datura content a little bit will essentially produce the same effects.

In SWIM’s last test of the Passionoxia mix, he used 5 Datura stramonium seeds and 2 tablespoons of standard passionflower with all the twigs in it. The Datura seeds were more potent than usual, and the effects of the mix were as good as the first experience SWIM had, but more euphoric because of using D. stramonium instead of D. inoxia.

So this combination is doable with standard passionflower, but the Datura dose needs to be higher. It would be best to use passionflower leaf, and use a lower dose of Datura, but at the moment SWIM cannot find a vendor selling just the leaf. Starwest looks like it might be just the leaf, and at some point I’ll try their product to see if it really is, or its just an advertising gimmick like most of the other passionflower “leaf” products I’ve seen.