I'm curious, after thinking on it, they say perpetual motion is not possible...correct? But i thought of something, i could be wrong again, but it seems to me that magnetics are a perfect example of perpetual motion. Magnetic particals spinning in a loop that is forever unless manipulated, that would be perpetual motion wouldn't it?
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perpetual motion
- Thread starter Cheeto
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^^There are two ideas about that. The universe will spread on out into infinity and all matter and energy will become so dispersed and cold that no life will ever exist in it again or the universe will recycle itself in a seemingly endless loop. We are on the verge of figuring out the fate that awaits us, or at least gaining more insight into the future evolution of the universe.
Concerning perpetual motion I don't really get the point of your question. Magnetic energy is part of the electromagnetic spectrum and is thus dependant on the energy of photons. Photons can lose energy. In vacuum they can move un scathed forever but the universe is not a true vacuum (i think...). Space is not nothing.
Concerning perpetual motion I don't really get the point of your question. Magnetic energy is part of the electromagnetic spectrum and is thus dependant on the energy of photons. Photons can lose energy. In vacuum they can move un scathed forever but the universe is not a true vacuum (i think...). Space is not nothing.
69ron
Rising Star
Jorkest said:
Yeah. Proof for sure.
The universe cannot come from nothing (the “big bang” theory is utter nonsense) so it must exist eternally (or have been created by something else that exists eternally). The energy that we are living off of is from a source of perpetual motion, or endless energy (from God consciousness actually), however you want to look at it. The universe continues to exist endlessly and is in endless motion. It is perfect perpetual motion at play.
So yes, perpetual motion exists without a doubt. But humans cannot create it. God apparently can though. It’s likely the one thing that humans will never be able to do. Our science shows it to be completely impossible. But our modern day science also shows that the universe is completely impossible. All the scientific theories that explain how the universe exists are flawed and need to bend science in order for them to be accepted. It’s a scientific fact that something cannot come from nothing. And yet the universe defies that very basic rule. Pretty cool if you ask me
Actually modern science is offering alternatives to the big bang. Check out cyclic universe model. Both that model and the inflationary universe model (big bang modernized) match current observations about the universe. The decision in terms of what model is more correct will probably be determined in our life time. I personally have a feeling a cyclic universe will win but I don't know for sure. Something about the universe arising from nothing and spreading out infinitely doesn't sit right with my intuition (nor many others).
69ron
Rising Star
burnt said:
:roll:
I don’t believe that for a second. Science cannot explain the universe. It defies scientific explanation. Mankind will never know because mankind has not existed as long as the universe has. All mankind can do is theorize. None of his theories on how the universe exists can ever be proven because man cannot go back in time to witness the creation of the universe, or witness its eternal existence. And man cannot build a universe to test his theories.
A waste of time it is. No such theory can actually be tested. It’s impossible. You might as well run in circles until you die.
Your right that no one can go back in time and see what it was like but your totally wrong that we can't have any idea about what the universe was like and where it is heading. To deny that is completely ignorant to what we have and are continuing to observe about our universe. Its the same with the earth. We can't go back to the beginning of the earth but we can sure as hell paint some kind of picture about what the early earth looked like based on our current knowledge about geology. There is tons of evidence left around for what the temperature was like in the past what kind of gases were present in the atmosphere.
The same applies to the universe, it can and is being tested. The cosmic microwave backround radiation provides pretty solid evidence that the universe expanded rapidly about 14 billion years ago. We can literally see what the early universe looked like by mapping this radiation because to look deep into space is to literally look into the past.
How can you seriously argue against this overwhelming evidence?
We can also try to simulate some of the conditions of the early universe and see if the experiment evidence matches observations about the universe. That is being done right now at the large hadron collider in geneva. We may quite literally see the laws of nature break down at super high temperatures and pressure, similar conditions to those of the early universe. Its not all just theorizing, theorizing comes first then experiment which proves or denies the theory and then the theory can be thrown out or improved upon.
The same applies to the universe, it can and is being tested. The cosmic microwave backround radiation provides pretty solid evidence that the universe expanded rapidly about 14 billion years ago. We can literally see what the early universe looked like by mapping this radiation because to look deep into space is to literally look into the past.
How can you seriously argue against this overwhelming evidence?
We can also try to simulate some of the conditions of the early universe and see if the experiment evidence matches observations about the universe. That is being done right now at the large hadron collider in geneva. We may quite literally see the laws of nature break down at super high temperatures and pressure, similar conditions to those of the early universe. Its not all just theorizing, theorizing comes first then experiment which proves or denies the theory and then the theory can be thrown out or improved upon.
burnt said:
If you hide a magnet from photons it will not attract metals anymore?
Maybe i didn't understand you, a magnet as an example of perpetual motion seems to fit good with me. I don't think magnets need photons to operate in the way they do, as long as it has its charge it continues to loop magnetic particals without any gain or loss of energy, the actual particals moving would be kenetic energy wouldn't it? So no energy is feed to the system but kenetic energy is sustained.
If science can be so flawed, how can someone suggest sticking to its rules is the best way to go, if you have to bend the rules for it to work, why limit yourself to its rules when life its self dosen't. I'm sure we can eventually figure it out, or more of it as well as seeing where we made mistakes, i would never say its beyond understanding, many things can seem that way, yet an outsider quickly points out what your missing then it all comes together. We don't need to stop trying to learn, we need more people trying to learn.
69ron
Rising Star
burnt said:
I'm sorry that all means nothing. You can only test what the universe makes available for you to test. And you cannot create a working model of the universe to test your ideas. Until you can do that, it's just a scientific theory.
You don't even know if anything we see is even real or not! It could all be an illusion created by the universe.
Magnetic energy is a part of the electromagnetic spectrum.
Yes but the universe did make it available to us that's the point! That's what makes it all so freakin cool, is that there is evidence that the universe left behind to explain its own history. How can you say it means nothing?
Listen if I light myself on fire I'm going to burn to death. Thats not an illusion its going to hurt and my skin will melt off and I will die. But maybe my existence is an illusion created by this thing called consciousness but regardless there is something out there going on otherwise nothing would be going on.
But well your right in some ways this universe and existence could all be an illusion but what is so wrong with trying to understand that illusion if it can give you a better picture of what lies beyond it? I mean just look at it all. The illusionary world of the mystics is being described by modern science. Look at relativity and quantum mechanics its saying the same shit!
69ron
Rising Star
burnt said:
I don’t know. I’ve had a dream where people in that dream said the dream was not a dream, and that it was real. They attempted to prove the dream was in fact real and not a dream. In that dream I recall getting cut accidentally and it hurt like hell. Some of my dreams appear about as real as reality.
There’s nothing wrong with trying to figure our how the universe works. Just know that it will always be nothing more than a theory, because it can never be tested without making an actual model of the universe to see if in fact what you believe is true and you’re not fooling yourself with your own “science”.
As i think about what 69Ron stated, i see that our universe is an example of perpetual motion, because all it is, is energy in motion. If perpetual motion wern't real then nothing would be happaning in our universe, leading to no universe. It would really lead to only two possibilities...
(1) There is something(Weather God or what ever) constantly putting energy into the system, though where is the energy comming from. This is not likely in my personal opinion.
(2) Perpetual motion is real and our universe is constantly in motion, converting energy to other forms of energy in a big loop never loosing or gaining energy. Sounds more likely to me.
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I will read up on this...first i've heard of it. But your saying a magnet is basicly a photon converter? As in a magnet gets energy from photons and converts them into energy to move the magnetic particals? If that is true why don't they increase in strength when exposed to more photons(Whatever frequency it is absorbing for energy). Has this been proved or suggested by anyone?
Aren't natural magnets and man made electromagnets different in ways??
ehhh.....scratch that last question. I'm reading...
(1) There is something(Weather God or what ever) constantly putting energy into the system, though where is the energy comming from. This is not likely in my personal opinion.
(2) Perpetual motion is real and our universe is constantly in motion, converting energy to other forms of energy in a big loop never loosing or gaining energy. Sounds more likely to me.
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I will read up on this...first i've heard of it. But your saying a magnet is basicly a photon converter? As in a magnet gets energy from photons and converts them into energy to move the magnetic particals? If that is true why don't they increase in strength when exposed to more photons(Whatever frequency it is absorbing for energy). Has this been proved or suggested by anyone?
Aren't natural magnets and man made electromagnets different in ways??
ehhh.....scratch that last question. I'm reading...
It is constantly in motion its expanding space is expanding. As we see it since we have been looking. Dark energy man dark energy. Energy is neither created nor destroyed.
Well the visible universe has supposedly a limited amount of stuff. Finite. Unless you start thinking about whats beyond the visible universe or if there are more dimensions and universes. It makes a difference but yes we cannot observe what is beyond the visible universe its a limit for sure.
Ron rock. I see what you mean and yes we can never truly understand the full complexity of existence for a number of reasons. But there is a world in which life exists that I am currently experiencing and in that world I want to enjoy it and understand more of why it exists. Objective scientific analysis is one way for me to satisfy some of those desires. It is also a way for me to satisfy a desire to help people and all life on earth that can benefit from what science learns and how knowledge can change human behavior. People have forgotten so much and if science can reteach things in a way that people learn and grow is something positive for this world that are currently living in. Personal exploration of my own mind also ties deep into why I believe why psychedelic drugs are useful. We may have slightly different views on god and the universe but maybe they are more similar then we think.
On strong psychedelic experiences SWIM has spoken to his dead relatives SWIM has heard their voices their advise the universe or SWIM's mind has helped SWIM so much to understand what we really are through the language of this experience. But there is also a danger in believing things that your own mind may be creating to satisfy primal human urges. Psychedelic drugs are that powerful they can no doubt twist a human beings mind to believe things that are no different then psychosis. Psychosis is qualitatively different but the idea is the same. That's perhaps where we differ. You accept what you heard as the truth I am still questioning some of what I have seen for whatever reasons. You have yours I have mine.
Yes but the point I have been trying to make most of time I come here and ramble relentlessly is that people must be careful not to take what you see in these experiences as too real because you can run into serious delusionary thought patterns. Maybe that's more with SWIM then SWIY but certainly this does happen, psychedelics have made SWIM both ecstatic in the literal sense and insane in the literal sense. We don't entirely understand our minds and how these drugs effect them but it is certainly one of the most powerful experiences a human being can have (especially things like dmt and other related compounds) and we must go into it if we wish to understand it with an objective sensible view point. If we don't want to really ever understand it but just experience it then that's fine. Maybe our goals are different but who cares its fun.
most certainly!! taking anything that we see or hear as absolute can lead to delusional thoughts..SWIM has some friends that when introduced to the spice world..they thought they were the Messiah..well SWIM had those thoughts too..but then you come to realize that if one person can be the Messiah..than we can be..we are all equal in that sense..and i feel that as you continue along this path..you do come to realize that some of your thoughts are very delusional and cant be taken literally..but SWIM has found that there is always a message and lesson in everything that we do...including spice journeys...
so before you go off and tell your friends that you are about to migrate to a new dimension..think about it a little bit..and see if you can find the hidden meaning behind it all
Agreed cheers and goodnight. This really is a fun website someone should write a book. I gain many perspectives on this truly fascinating experience.