Parshvik Chintan
Rising Star
not at the moment, but come may time when i move back to where the phalaris grows wild, i will most certainly be extracting multiple samples.jamie said:
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phalaris teacher.
- Thread starter jamie
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Spiritofspice
Rising Star
Red goo you say.
I wonder if this is the old DMT my uncle talks about from the 1970s.
He told me that the come up from the "old school" DMT was like what you described.
We have had DMT together extracted from mhrb and it was clean.
He still thinks that the red stuff was more powerful.
Maybe there is a sweet spot with this goo maybe another 5mg might push things past to a more visual / breakthrough experience.
Anyway great report.
I look forward to reading more.
I wonder if this is the old DMT my uncle talks about from the 1970s.
He told me that the come up from the "old school" DMT was like what you described.
We have had DMT together extracted from mhrb and it was clean.
He still thinks that the red stuff was more powerful.
Maybe there is a sweet spot with this goo maybe another 5mg might push things past to a more visual / breakthrough experience.
Anyway great report.
I look forward to reading more.
I can assure you the red tryptamine goo I get from the grass is not what anyone was smoking back in the 70's. All the DMT back then in the underground was synthetic. My extract here contains much more than just DMT..DMT is not the main tryptamine present in the wild arundinacea extract. There are other active tryptamines and beta carbolines present that create an experience very much unlike that of other DMT sources..this extract is really not much like DMT at all..but it definatly a tryptamine experience. Be careful please..this is still mostly new territory and I cant stress enough the fact that the wild grasses should not be treated as simply another DMT source but entheogenic plants with they're own unique signature than can be very very different from DMT.
If you want a DMT experience and wild grass is your only choice for a plant, you would be better off with psilocybe mushrooms or a select high alk strain/species of grass that has already shown to be a high yielding and clean DMT source.
The grasses are full of beta carbolines and tryptamines that while some experiments suggest are active psychedelics, should be approached with caution.
If you want a DMT experience and wild grass is your only choice for a plant, you would be better off with psilocybe mushrooms or a select high alk strain/species of grass that has already shown to be a high yielding and clean DMT source.
The grasses are full of beta carbolines and tryptamines that while some experiments suggest are active psychedelics, should be approached with caution.
Parshvik Chintan said:
It would be very interesting to see some TLC analysis on grass farther up north where you will be. I wonder how different the alkaloid content will be. The reason why the more people doing this the better, is because we will learn more in general about these strains/species, the chemotypes and seasonal changes in alkaloid levels..and becasue we can select and breed out possible new high alkaloid strains. Arundinacea, with such a broad chemotype is bound to produce random wild specimens that are rather clean and high yielding DMT, 5meoDMT etc strains..even less explored tryptamines like 5meoNMT and NMT etc..
Big medicine, yugo red and turkey red have been cloned now for like 20 years..at some point it is good to have newer seed grown strains to start cloning again.
Also..at the risk of sounding really far out..I want to say to people to please please respect these plants..even with an "invasive" and abundant plant like phalaris, you are still putting your life in natures arms, and nature is not all rainbows and bubbles. This path with the plants can be a rough one, and if you think back to people who were invovled in this work with analogue plants back in the days of the entheogen review etc, there was some really rough experiences along the way. I dont even really like the term "analogue" in this context. Phalaris is NOT an ayahuasca or psychotria analogue. Phalaris is phalaris. If you try to make this plant into psychotria viridis, it's going to kick your ass.
These plants are Medicines, as are all plants on some level. I really want people to understand that these are complex organic beings, with complex plant chemistry going on..to reduce this to just a DMT source is missing the point and a dangerous idea to spread. With plants like mimosa harder to come across, more and more young/new people come here asking about grasses all the time we have to be careful. Still I see threads where people assume they can just boil up some grass and have a "DMT" experience..which is totally off. Most people do not have sublimators and chromatography equipment.
These plants are Medicines, as are all plants on some level. I really want people to understand that these are complex organic beings, with complex plant chemistry going on..to reduce this to just a DMT source is missing the point and a dangerous idea to spread. With plants like mimosa harder to come across, more and more young/new people come here asking about grasses all the time we have to be careful. Still I see threads where people assume they can just boil up some grass and have a "DMT" experience..which is totally off. Most people do not have sublimators and chromatography equipment.
..wise words jamie..thank you (i sense the plant teachers 
)
i was going to comment on this thread earlier, and now to see your last post makes it even better..
one of the reasons i joined the nexus was to bring more awareness of the plants (acacia) as teachers..i saw a sometimes gratuitous lack of awareness and respect..these plants are not simply dmt was an early point i made..
and phalaris is the way of the future, i believe..you are doing pioneering work here jamie..on the frontiers..
initially your report reminded me of early research of acacia species..sometimes very unknown mixtures of alkaloids would lead to equally unknown yet entheogenic effects..
yes there are potential dangers of unknowns..it was only for me a conception that the plant could teach or heal which kept me going..this kind of investigation isn't for everyone, especially the inexperienced..
we do know from animal tests that 5meoNMT is quite active..no one has described how..so an analysis of what you smoked will be very interesting..but also combinations of tryptamines and betacarbolines can act synergistically, creating unique effects, which can only really be described as 'the plant', not in terms of single alkaloids..
..i thank you for this report jamie
)i was going to comment on this thread earlier, and now to see your last post makes it even better..
one of the reasons i joined the nexus was to bring more awareness of the plants (acacia) as teachers..i saw a sometimes gratuitous lack of awareness and respect..these plants are not simply dmt was an early point i made..
and phalaris is the way of the future, i believe..you are doing pioneering work here jamie..on the frontiers..
initially your report reminded me of early research of acacia species..sometimes very unknown mixtures of alkaloids would lead to equally unknown yet entheogenic effects..
yes there are potential dangers of unknowns..it was only for me a conception that the plant could teach or heal which kept me going..this kind of investigation isn't for everyone, especially the inexperienced..
we do know from animal tests that 5meoNMT is quite active..no one has described how..so an analysis of what you smoked will be very interesting..but also combinations of tryptamines and betacarbolines can act synergistically, creating unique effects, which can only really be described as 'the plant', not in terms of single alkaloids..
..i thank you for this report jamie
ps..i think really some kind of simple column chromatography would be required to separate 4-5 or more alkaloids which are likely present..
as in south america they accept yopo/hekula etc as the teacher i think we are better off doing the same with such multi alkaloid plants....we at least have a couple of 'just'/mainly dmt phalaris strains as well ..
as in south america they accept yopo/hekula etc as the teacher i think we are better off doing the same with such multi alkaloid plants....we at least have a couple of 'just'/mainly dmt phalaris strains as well ..
I would like to learn column chromatography at some point so I can isolate both the 5meoNMT and the main beta carbolines and try them seperately. I am more interested in the synergy between the tryptamines and beta carbolines but to test them on they're own as well is something that needs to happen at some point.
The thing with this wild strain I am working with, as that with the full spectrum I dont think you would want to try to get into some kind of hyperspace breathrough with it. I can imagine that being so physically uncomfortable. People have this focus on having a terrence mckenna style breakthrough(DMT itself isnt necessarily like that for me anyway) and the wild grass is not that. The headspace is like a light dose of DMT, until you take enough to start to get visuals..visuals that for me are unlike DMT in many ways and they are not as complex or intense as DMT visuals/visions..but I have had some very animated open eye visuals. It was more like actual objects in the room became animated and were glowing. The headspace at that point becomes much more stimulating and pushy, similar to the pushyness of mushrooms but still very different from mushrooms. Overall the experience is that of a lighter psychedelic tryptamine headspace with mild visuals, until I take enough for it to feel like my mind is comming apart. At that point the visuals I am having are not what I concentrate on. I concentrate on trying to keep my mind together. I would like to take a larger dose of it but I can imagine it being a very difficult experience. There is a point for me I hit..where if I smoke only a little bit I might feel nothing more than maybe a mild sort of stoned feeling..then there is like another level where I will reach the tryptamine feeling in mind and body..and then the next level the mind really ramps up before any visuals happen..
The visuals are best described as a sort of visual varnish or shimmer that appears in the room around me. The next level is objects appearing animated but this is almost a mental thing..like you are seeing it but you arent..it's a cognitive shift. I have seen very light simple geometric shapes briefly while looking at a white wall but it's not nearly as apparent as with DMT.
If anyone does do this work, try to harvest large enough ammounts so that you can have at least a couple doses per harvest. This is due to the fact that the alkaloid levels and content seem to change so much season to season and maybe even after rains/drout etc..it is good to be able to judge the extract of a single harvest over a series of experiences..and then compare those experiences to those of other harvests. Simply getting one little dose and nothing more can prove problematic.
With the aquatica extract I tested, it did feel closer to a more pure trytpamine experience..it was still slowed down though and I only got one little dose. This was also not a select high alkaloid strain. This was seed grown aquatica from a random unlabled strain. Definatly tryptamine active though..at higher content than the random arundinacea. The ammount of aquatica I used was low and that much arundinacea would never have yielded an active dose of anything.
The arundinacea extract when vaporized before mimosa extract is vaporized creates interesting synergy.
The thing with this wild strain I am working with, as that with the full spectrum I dont think you would want to try to get into some kind of hyperspace breathrough with it. I can imagine that being so physically uncomfortable. People have this focus on having a terrence mckenna style breakthrough(DMT itself isnt necessarily like that for me anyway) and the wild grass is not that. The headspace is like a light dose of DMT, until you take enough to start to get visuals..visuals that for me are unlike DMT in many ways and they are not as complex or intense as DMT visuals/visions..but I have had some very animated open eye visuals. It was more like actual objects in the room became animated and were glowing. The headspace at that point becomes much more stimulating and pushy, similar to the pushyness of mushrooms but still very different from mushrooms. Overall the experience is that of a lighter psychedelic tryptamine headspace with mild visuals, until I take enough for it to feel like my mind is comming apart. At that point the visuals I am having are not what I concentrate on. I concentrate on trying to keep my mind together. I would like to take a larger dose of it but I can imagine it being a very difficult experience. There is a point for me I hit..where if I smoke only a little bit I might feel nothing more than maybe a mild sort of stoned feeling..then there is like another level where I will reach the tryptamine feeling in mind and body..and then the next level the mind really ramps up before any visuals happen..
The visuals are best described as a sort of visual varnish or shimmer that appears in the room around me. The next level is objects appearing animated but this is almost a mental thing..like you are seeing it but you arent..it's a cognitive shift. I have seen very light simple geometric shapes briefly while looking at a white wall but it's not nearly as apparent as with DMT.
If anyone does do this work, try to harvest large enough ammounts so that you can have at least a couple doses per harvest. This is due to the fact that the alkaloid levels and content seem to change so much season to season and maybe even after rains/drout etc..it is good to be able to judge the extract of a single harvest over a series of experiences..and then compare those experiences to those of other harvests. Simply getting one little dose and nothing more can prove problematic.
With the aquatica extract I tested, it did feel closer to a more pure trytpamine experience..it was still slowed down though and I only got one little dose. This was also not a select high alkaloid strain. This was seed grown aquatica from a random unlabled strain. Definatly tryptamine active though..at higher content than the random arundinacea. The ammount of aquatica I used was low and that much arundinacea would never have yielded an active dose of anything.
The arundinacea extract when vaporized before mimosa extract is vaporized creates interesting synergy.
after a couple months break from working with any grass extracts, and doing lots of work with mimosa and psilocybe extracts, I did some work with this grass extract again..and it was really nice.
It could be that it is just the way my brain chemistry was at the time, but there was no side effects at all..no stimulation or heavy mental looping or pushyness. It was pretty much just a solid entheogenic tryptamine glow. It was actaully very reminiscent of DMT this time, but still lacking the geometric visuals. This time I did however get some nice but very mild open eye visuals for a couple minutes of things slowly melting with color enhancement. I have heard this melting effect described of 5meoDMT with the eyes open. I have a lot of nice south american and mexican blankets with the stripes of color..and they were all melting together.
this extract has sat in a vial in my freezer for maybe 4 months now..so maybe some of the actives could have broken down into other stuff changing the effects..but I dont know. I doubt that is it.
Mostly though it was just a very pleasant and erotic tryptamine mental effect..short lived. I have no idea how much I smoked..a small bit of the oily extract. It produced the same tryptamine yawns and laughter as other tryptamines.
What it was for me was medicine. Same headspace and energy that low-mid psilocybe and mimosa extract have been taking me to just different visually. Its very aural. I have been dealing with a lot of stuff the past month due to being completely heartbroken and these medicines have been my shining light. I really dont know how I would be getting through without them right now. This IS my path in life. I have never felt so utterly sad, hopeless and completely ecstatic and alive all at once in my life as I have been lately when I take medicines. It's as if my whole soul is being illuminated and I am getting this chance to look into my shadows. Many nights have been shared with tryptamines and the progression of experiences seem to almost contain a story that has been unfolding. This has been my most intense and in depth set of experiences with these medicines to date..and many insights come the following days while walking in the rainforest. There seems to be some kind of resonance that takes place in me while in the forest after having taken a tryptamine..after the main effects are over.
so..yeah pretty much just an energetic medicine for me. I am getting obsessed with grass also. I find myself down on my hands and knees in big dead strands of the stuff here in the cold winter marveling at the little green shoots still popping up underneath. Gaian pheromones calling us home.
I cant wait to try my Big Medicine and Yugo Red clones this summer. They look so vibrant and trypty beside my acacia.
It could be that it is just the way my brain chemistry was at the time, but there was no side effects at all..no stimulation or heavy mental looping or pushyness. It was pretty much just a solid entheogenic tryptamine glow. It was actaully very reminiscent of DMT this time, but still lacking the geometric visuals. This time I did however get some nice but very mild open eye visuals for a couple minutes of things slowly melting with color enhancement. I have heard this melting effect described of 5meoDMT with the eyes open. I have a lot of nice south american and mexican blankets with the stripes of color..and they were all melting together.
this extract has sat in a vial in my freezer for maybe 4 months now..so maybe some of the actives could have broken down into other stuff changing the effects..but I dont know. I doubt that is it.
Mostly though it was just a very pleasant and erotic tryptamine mental effect..short lived. I have no idea how much I smoked..a small bit of the oily extract. It produced the same tryptamine yawns and laughter as other tryptamines.
What it was for me was medicine. Same headspace and energy that low-mid psilocybe and mimosa extract have been taking me to just different visually. Its very aural. I have been dealing with a lot of stuff the past month due to being completely heartbroken and these medicines have been my shining light. I really dont know how I would be getting through without them right now. This IS my path in life. I have never felt so utterly sad, hopeless and completely ecstatic and alive all at once in my life as I have been lately when I take medicines. It's as if my whole soul is being illuminated and I am getting this chance to look into my shadows. Many nights have been shared with tryptamines and the progression of experiences seem to almost contain a story that has been unfolding. This has been my most intense and in depth set of experiences with these medicines to date..and many insights come the following days while walking in the rainforest. There seems to be some kind of resonance that takes place in me while in the forest after having taken a tryptamine..after the main effects are over.
so..yeah pretty much just an energetic medicine for me. I am getting obsessed with grass also. I find myself down on my hands and knees in big dead strands of the stuff here in the cold winter marveling at the little green shoots still popping up underneath. Gaian pheromones calling us home.
I cant wait to try my Big Medicine and Yugo Red clones this summer. They look so vibrant and trypty beside my acacia.
Pharmacognosis
Rising Star
Your experience had all the hallmarks of sub-breakthrough 5-meo-dmt, which is uncomfortable from the 10mg to 20mg range. Up to 10mg 5meodmt feels like 5-meo-dalt or other erotic tryptamines, with a liquid flowing feeling, intensity of senses (things appear brighter, monochrome CEVs), lovey chest warmth. From 10mg to 20mg is where it gets frightening as your ego faces rapid impending deletion, heart rate picks up, and animal fear overtakes everything. When I smoke it I try to skip this whole dosage range, cuz you can't ratinally get past the Fear. 5-meo also seems tied directly into the chakra/kundalini complex to where you distinctly feel as if you are dying, which in a sense you are.
I think if you halved the dosage you took it would have been alot more pleasant, more MDMA-like but nonstimulating. Or if you smoked more and had the NDE ++++ whiteout, assuming this was 5meo. The fear and the radiating light aspects are strong indicators though.
Much respect concerning your efforts. Phalaris research is the most important field in entheogenics today, with its potential to provide universal access to the Light. Your place at the forefront of it commands the utmost respect, like Siebert for Salvia or Wasson for mushrooms. I wonder if its possible to start a research fund for this or other Nexus projects via bitcoin? Its sad the world has to wait for humanity to evolve on a sporadic and personally funded basis from scrimped time left over and spare cash at hand after rent or mortgage.
I think if you halved the dosage you took it would have been alot more pleasant, more MDMA-like but nonstimulating. Or if you smoked more and had the NDE ++++ whiteout, assuming this was 5meo. The fear and the radiating light aspects are strong indicators though.
Much respect concerning your efforts. Phalaris research is the most important field in entheogenics today, with its potential to provide universal access to the Light. Your place at the forefront of it commands the utmost respect, like Siebert for Salvia or Wasson for mushrooms. I wonder if its possible to start a research fund for this or other Nexus projects via bitcoin? Its sad the world has to wait for humanity to evolve on a sporadic and personally funded basis from scrimped time left over and spare cash at hand after rent or mortgage.
What I like so much about the new research, with grasses especially, is that it is happening at a grass roots level. My hope..and my goal if I can have any small influence on how this all unfolds is that this brings us back to some kind of neo-folk practice. Not just the realm of academics or scientific journalism, but a true folk technology. That is really where this thing belongs, IMO. We can move beyond the idea of an "ayahuasca analogue", both as a plant and a practice..and learn something new, for ourselves, today..and then it will be ours. Only then IMO can we really come back to these other cultures in the amazon and elsewhere, hold up our tradition and show them that really have learned something from them..that we realized all we have to do is do the most simple and fundamental thing they all do-listen to nature, and learn. This is the root of all land based folk traditions.
jamie said:
nice pun not sure if that was intentional
but pun aside I agree.. I think the grasses are going to be the real game changer in the future for those tryptamine inclined in the west... just need more people like yourself doing the research. seems a lot of people are quite hesitant because of some negative results with random tests. and of course the gramine thing.. which it seems was sort of blown out of proportion a little.
..in all honesty i can't imagine confusa importation lasting all that long.. sure its getting people by for now but a day will come where law enforcement will catch on and its fate will likely be very that of mhrb.. the abbreviation "acrb" is so common now its easy to forget that"mhrb" was not long ago the face of dmt. importation is not sustainable and I think the more people rely on importing plants the more they are going to bring those plants into a potentially undesireable spotlight. grass is of a differen't nature of course because it is so easy to grow that once people put their finger on the right strain they want and can start growing that strain consistently with good results, everybody will be able to grow and harvest their own dmt in relatively short periods of time ... there is hesitation to grow acacia because there is an impatience to wait years, but grass fixes this problem
Herbaldreams
Rising Star
Thank you for the report. You have helped renew my interest in the grasses. I tried harvesting some wild phalaris years back, but didn't end up doing anything with it because I wasnt sure of the ID. I recently received a Big Medicine clone and a decent supply of Phalaris brachystchys seeds, so I will be doing some experimentation later this year.
I have a big extraction I am in the middle of right now..and a lot more to add about the spiritual relationship I have cultivated with the grass over the winter..so there will be more added to this thread soon..and an article on the way. It's full season now..
so first 2 pulls on a couple bags of fresh grass harvested wild this spring yielded just over 500mg..528mg or something like that, I cant remember for sure. I will get a picture of the extract and the weight tommorow.
this extract is like yellow earwax, and smells strongly of indole when vaped. It is definatly active and a very smooth, pleasant psychedelic tryptamine expereince was present with 18mg slowly vaped in a couple hits spaced apart over a few minutes as a test for this new batch.
Like before, It comes relativly quick I guess, but build up to a peak over 5 minutes or so. This was the smoothest and most enjoyable dose of grass extract I have tested so far. It was very euphoric with warm rushed of psychedelic energy rushing through my body. Begginning of some visuals but not really enough to really make them out or comment on that aspect at this dose. The room definatly look on an animate quality which is becomming a common theme for me with arundinacea extracts. Lights look brighter or more glowy like magical orbs. Very deep empathic and somatic tryptamine buzz present. I could have sworn I smoked pure DMT that was dull on the visions with a much fuller, richer body vibe..but I dont really feel the term "body" high or buzz is what I really mean..it was more like a soul buzz. I am sure anyone familiar with tryptamines understands what I mean.
Next I am laying on my bed, I guess its like 20 mins later and its starting to taper off..I feel like I drank a cup of ayahuasca. I feel like I am made of rainbow flowers blooming inside my heart, and Im sort of rolling back and forth sensually laughing. It feels really theraputic and opening.
Hmmm..yup I guess that is all I have to say for now. I have a nice ball of this tryptamine wax, a couple more pulls to do and another big bag of the grass I harvested this morning. There will be more to come..Oral with and without harmalas, snuffed doses and higher vaped doses will all be experienced over the comming summer.
I have a yugo red growing like crazy, beside a big medicine clone and an aquatica comming back nicely more established this year as well to experiment with. I already got one small harvest of yugo red in the freezer.
this extract is like yellow earwax, and smells strongly of indole when vaped. It is definatly active and a very smooth, pleasant psychedelic tryptamine expereince was present with 18mg slowly vaped in a couple hits spaced apart over a few minutes as a test for this new batch.
Like before, It comes relativly quick I guess, but build up to a peak over 5 minutes or so. This was the smoothest and most enjoyable dose of grass extract I have tested so far. It was very euphoric with warm rushed of psychedelic energy rushing through my body. Begginning of some visuals but not really enough to really make them out or comment on that aspect at this dose. The room definatly look on an animate quality which is becomming a common theme for me with arundinacea extracts. Lights look brighter or more glowy like magical orbs. Very deep empathic and somatic tryptamine buzz present. I could have sworn I smoked pure DMT that was dull on the visions with a much fuller, richer body vibe..but I dont really feel the term "body" high or buzz is what I really mean..it was more like a soul buzz. I am sure anyone familiar with tryptamines understands what I mean.
Next I am laying on my bed, I guess its like 20 mins later and its starting to taper off..I feel like I drank a cup of ayahuasca. I feel like I am made of rainbow flowers blooming inside my heart, and Im sort of rolling back and forth sensually laughing. It feels really theraputic and opening.
Hmmm..yup I guess that is all I have to say for now. I have a nice ball of this tryptamine wax, a couple more pulls to do and another big bag of the grass I harvested this morning. There will be more to come..Oral with and without harmalas, snuffed doses and higher vaped doses will all be experienced over the comming summer.
I have a yugo red growing like crazy, beside a big medicine clone and an aquatica comming back nicely more established this year as well to experiment with. I already got one small harvest of yugo red in the freezer.
Entheogenerator
Homo discens
Thanks for the update Jamie! I look forward to hearing more news on the subject.jamie said:
I actually have recently come across a couple different samples of wild P.arundinacea, as well as a sample of harvested "Yugo Red", and a couple clones of "Yugo Red" and "Big Medicine".
I am very excited to jump on the phalaris bandwagon and do what I can to further research into this relatively uncharted territory. Thank you for being such an inspiration.
downwardsfromzero
Boundary condition
Great to hear you're having success with arundinacea again!jamie said:
Was this done with a simple A/B after freezing?
There seems to be P. arundinacea all over the place in my city, and not just in the rivers. I juiced some from a woodland setting, mixed with a bit of Galium aparine and lemon balm because they were all growing together. A teaspoon of this juice sublingually was at least mood elevating although that could be only partly, or nothing, to do with the Phalaris. (I never was that great a scientist
)
That's great downwardsfromzero!
I have too found P. Arundinacea to be active orally on its own.
Have never achieved a full "break through" with it by itself but would imagine you need significantly more than with maoi.
Had smoked a flower with a friend the other day out of a bong and felt effects, visual, cognitive, and body effects. Was barely poking out of the sheath.
Calcium Hydroxide base with Acetone washes does fine for me.
Got crystals from evaporating room temperature naphtha. Was pretty active. No TLC.
I have too found P. Arundinacea to be active orally on its own.
Have never achieved a full "break through" with it by itself but would imagine you need significantly more than with maoi.
Had smoked a flower with a friend the other day out of a bong and felt effects, visual, cognitive, and body effects. Was barely poking out of the sheath.
Calcium Hydroxide base with Acetone washes does fine for me.
Got crystals from evaporating room temperature naphtha. Was pretty active. No TLC.