phragmites australis new extraction method

[vlad665]

given the succes of pulling more than 1% yield from mh stem bark using uae, it got me thinking.
now idk what method was used by Trout and co to obtain that 0.001% to 0.05% alkaloid from it, but given the difference of 0.1% of standard a/b on stem without sonication vs 1.1 i got with sonication and 3.5% the paper published in 2025 using sonication, i realised there may be more to the common reed available world wide.
now, the easy part on mhsb is that lignin is more weak than reeds combo of lignin and opal phytholiths, so i was thinking there may be more on reeds than meets the eye.
i was thinking to process 1kg of plant matter. wont bother pulling the rhyzomes out, i intuit they did it cause of the water ratio in the fiber that made it easyer to freeze/thaw. so 1 kg of aerial plant matter, turned to saw dust using a circular tablesaw
1. treat with citric acid sollution to ph 3, and vacuum the jar for 1~2hours, to remove air trapped, then release vacuum to force acid sollution into fibers.
2. freeze several hours and thaw
3. sonicate
4. filter and save fraction
4. repeat 1,2,3,4 process on the mark
5. wash mark with naphta to eliminate fats
6. stb on the mark to ph14 vacuum and sonicate again at cca 40-50°c
7. pull potential alkaloid in naphta/hexane
8. freeze precip.
9. on separate tray mix acidic pulls done in the begining, basify to ph. 14, then pull alks in naphta hexane, freeze precip.

so, what do you guys say? worth trying an aggresive pull like this?
the ideea is to try and destroy that silica polymer casing of the cells, or degrade it enough to permit infiltration through pressure difference using vacuum/release phases and sonication

 

[Transform]

more than 1% yield from mh stem bark using uae

Hi. What do you mean by "uae"?

Your outlined process certainly looks worthy of a try. We'd be eager to hear the results of any experiments you might carry out.

 

[vlad665]

Hi. What do you mean by "uae"?

Your outlined process certainly looks worthy of a try. We'd be eager to hear the results of any experiments you might carry out.

ultrasonic assisted extraction. i am combining now with vacuum/represurizing, in order to make cells act as a pump, release insides while vacuuminge, pull back in at release.
planning to harvest reeds this weekend at the riverbanks and will see.
i would need thou the opinion of a real chemist on the opal phytoliths. can those structures be weakened with a speciffic acid/base? or just mechanic degradation.

 

[vlad665]

also, the success of pulling dmt out of that stem bark in high enough quantity that worths the hustle using same method of combined uae and vacuum/release, made me think it can be applied to other barks aswel, like hipophae rhamnoides or eleagnus angustifolia for their betacarbolines. so far they were disregarded for low yields but mh stem bark was on the same situation.
i think we are way closer to a temperate europe huasca than ever if only we use the right tools to pull out the alkaloids

 

[aizoaceous]

That's something of a kitchen sink approach, and if it works then you won't know which of the many steps actually helped. I would try to get some kind of analysis going (e.g. TLC), so that you can quickly test after each step. Re-extraction of the nominally spent plant material with new solvent also helps judge completeness of the prior extraction.

Also, have you found any comparisons of ultrasonic-assisted vs. non-assisted extraction of the exact same plant material? The difference could otherwise instead be environmental or genetic, and e.g. Phalaris shows massive intraspecific genetic variation in alkaloids. I use my ultrasonic cleaner all the time, but I've never observed results (on frozen and thawed Phalaris leaves, dried and powdered Sceletium, a few others) dramatically different from shaking or stirring; it's just a more convenient way to get stuff moving. A probe sonicator is a lot more power and might be different.