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Pictorial Guide to Caapi Vine Alkaloid Extraction

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Crystalito said:
...The point i bring this up though is not this. Its more of a question i have : Are we sure that the undiserable alkaloids in syrian rue precipitate as freebases from aqueous solutions? Have any tests been done? . Not all alkaloids precipitate when freebase in aqueous solutions or else many extractions would be way easier... If i am missing somethiong from the picture, please do inform!
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That’s a good question. Our chemists will have to answer that one.

It’s also possible that nothing would precipitate out – not unlike MHRB. As you know, a basified DMT-containing solution from MHRB will not precipitate DMT. Something in the MHRB keeps the DMT in suspension. So it’s possible that all of the alkaloids might remain in suspension when using P. harmala.

(Watching the caapi alkaloids gradually coalesce and aggregate, and then rapidly drop out of solution is a sight to behold!)

jbark said:
Very nice Gibran2. I had a quick look at the tek, and I can't wait to try it. Very well organized (as expected!!) Let us know how the bio-assay goes.

From poet to pioneer, imbiber to provider!

JBArk
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The bio-assay is here. :)
 
gibran2 said:
Crystalito said:
...The point i bring this up though is not this. Its more of a question i have : Are we sure that the undiserable alkaloids in syrian rue precipitate as freebases from aqueous solutions? Have any tests been done? . Not all alkaloids precipitate when freebase in aqueous solutions or else many extractions would be way easier... If i am missing somethiong from the picture, please do inform!
Click to expand...
That’s a good question. Our chemists will have to answer that one.

It’s also possible that nothing would precipitate out – not unlike MHRB. As you know, a basified DMT-containing solution from MHRB will not precipitate DMT. Something in the MHRB keeps the DMT in suspension. So it’s possible that all of the alkaloids might remain in suspension when using P. harmala.

(Watching the caapi alkaloids gradually coalesce and aggregate, and then rapidly drop out of solution is a sight to behold!)

jbark said:
Very nice Gibran2. I had a quick look at the tek, and I can't wait to try it. Very well organized (as expected!!) Let us know how the bio-assay goes.

From poet to pioneer, imbiber to provider!

JBArk
Click to expand...
The bio-assay is here. :)
Click to expand...
\

Ohhhh... and not only did I read it, I actually comented and asked a question...:oops: I blame my 22 month old son, who has recently developed a habit of waking up at 5am - nothing to do with my aging littered mind...:shock:

Thanks for the reminder!

JBArk
 
So it’s possible that all of the alkaloids might remain in suspension when using P. harmala.
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I think harmala alkaloids could precipitate from a basification of the tea : DOS harmala tek! . First step is a basification ,i wonder though if the alcohol makes any difference. It seems to work brilliantly for harmala as well. Eitherway, it remains to be found.


Once more thanks for the excellent tek, archive material indeed!
 
After reading this I had to try it out and I gotta say I'm impressed. Very simple tek with a very clean end product. Also very cool to watch the fluffy white cloud appear. Mine sat on TOP for a while but is settling out nicely.

Thanks for the tek!
 
Thanks so much, gibran2! The pics make the whole process so much more friendlier!

Would it be possible to use lime as the base? Given that the alkaloids are dried for consumption after only after a few rinses, safe though the technique may be, methinks this is a prime candidate for a food-safe version.

Also, what impurities are there left after the first basification, out of curiosity (besides a little plant material)?
 
BananaForeskin said:
Thanks so much, gibran2! The pics make the whole process so much more friendlier!

Would it be possible to use lime as the base? Given that the alkaloids are dried for consumption after only after a few rinses, safe though the technique may be, methinks this is a prime candidate for a food-safe version.

Also, what impurities are there left after the first basification, out of curiosity (besides a little plant material)?
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I’ve only done this extraction with NaOH. I hope that others try it with a variety of bases and report back! (Hint.)

After the first basification and rinses, I don’t think there’s much of anything other than insoluble plant material. But the amount of plant material is not trivial – my guess is that it’s 20-30% of the weight. So I suppose you could stop after the initial rinses and settle for a product that’s at best maybe 80-85% pure (instead of the “Easy Caapi Vine Alkaloid Extraction TEK” we could call it the “Really Easy Caapi Vine Alkaloid Extraction TEK”). My guess is that the insoluble solids are benign.
 
BananaForeskin said:
Would it be possible to use lime as the base? Given that the alkaloids are dried for consumption after only after a few rinses, safe though the technique may be, methinks this is a prime candidate for a food-safe version.
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Lime is notoriously ineffective in solution. Try sodium carbonate instead.
 
gibran2 said:
BananaForeskin said:
Thanks so much, gibran2! The pics make the whole process so much more friendlier!

Would it be possible to use lime as the base? Given that the alkaloids are dried for consumption after only after a few rinses, safe though the technique may be, methinks this is a prime candidate for a food-safe version.

Also, what impurities are there left after the first basification, out of curiosity (besides a little plant material)?
Click to expand...
I’ve only done this extraction with NaOH. I hope that others try it with a variety of bases and report back! (Hint.)

After the first basification and rinses, I don’t think there’s much of anything other than insoluble plant material. But the amount of plant material is not trivial – my guess is that it’s 20-30% of the weight. So I suppose you could stop after the initial rinses and settle for a product that’s at best maybe 80-85% pure (instead of the “Easy Caapi Vine Alkaloid Extraction TEK” we could call it the “Really Easy Caapi Vine Alkaloid Extraction TEK”). My guess is that the insoluble solids are benign.
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Instead of re-acidification couldn't you dissolve the harmalas with IPA, filter and evap ?
 
justine said:
Instead of re-acidification couldn't you dissolve the harmalas with IPA, filter and evap ?
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I suppose you could, but you’d want to get the alkaloids as clean as possible after the first basification (instead of an aqueous solution of alkaloid salts, you’d have an IPA solution of alkaloid freebase). Are harmala alkaloids sufficiently soluble in IPA? If there are any alkaloids that are relatively insoluble in IPA, they would be lost.

Also, one of the nice things about this TEK is that the only solvent used is water.
 
Thanks for this gibran2. I'm thinking of doing a caapi extraction soon and these pictures really help to illustrate the procedure.
 
I thought normally when an aya brew is made, it takes 10+ hours.. If you boiled it for such a short amount of time, wouldn't there still be alkaloids in the bark left untapped?
 
Cloud said:
I thought normally when an aya brew is made, it takes 10+ hours.. If you boiled it for such a short amount of time, wouldn't there still be alkaloids in the bark left untapped?
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As soon as I get my next order of caapi (in a week or so), I’m going to put this to the test: I’ll do an extraction as outlined in the TEK, then do a separate extraction on the vine with an additional 4 hours or so of boiling. My guess is that there are additional alkaloids remaining, but that the amount is very small.

My black caapi yielded over 2% alkaloids with four 30-minute boils. It’s hard to imagine that there’s a whole lot more than 2% alkaloids in there!
 
Phantastica said:
does the pot used for brewing the caapi needs to be Stainless Steel? or would Aluminum suffice since no dmt is involved?
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You’ll be boiling an acidic solution, so don’t use aluminum. (Although the purification steps will probably remove any dissolved aluminum salts.)
 
gibran2 said:
Phantastica said:
does the pot used for brewing the caapi needs to be Stainless Steel? or would Aluminum suffice since no dmt is involved?
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You’ll be boiling an acidic solution, so don’t use aluminum. (Although the purification steps will probably remove any dissolved aluminum salts.)
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i only have an aluminum pot gibran, so if i was to proceed with the brewing, would it result in any kind of yield/potency loss??
another question: i never actually understood the mechanics behind not using Aluminum pots, so could you please explain that to me? Is it an issue of simple aluminum contamination, or is it an issue of potency/yield loss, or both? How so??
Thanks a lot man:d :d
 
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