-
Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).
Plant based Anti-depressants
- Thread starter nen888
- Start date
The Day Tripper
Rennasauce Man
We already have a detailed plant based anti-depressants thread, mods i suggest this be merged with that one to reduce clutter.
Nothing against the op's question, its just that its very unspecific, and the plant based anti-depressant thread covers all thats been said, and more.
You'll prob get more people's input on your request, and it just consolidates the same exact info in two threads into one.
EDIT:
Merge Completed
Nothing against the op's question, its just that its very unspecific, and the plant based anti-depressant thread covers all thats been said, and more.
You'll prob get more people's input on your request, and it just consolidates the same exact info in two threads into one.
EDIT:
Merge Completed
i've harvested some wild Ipericum perforatum (saint john's wort) this spring when it was supposed to have the most actives in it. i've drunk it everyday at 3g/day and it definetly works very good and it's potent! 
i had a depression setback with anxiety and after a cup of ipericum,2 hours later u can definetly feel better already! no placebo,this is the shit! :lol:
once i smoked a joint while i was anxious and it was the worst thing i could have done..increase of heartbeat,anxiety,paranoia,obsessions..i ended with a panic attack so i brewed my strong ipericum tea and after 40-45 minutes i've felt something better!
if u've depression or mood problems try it,it's not recreational at all i think,it doesn't make you high,but if u're on the floor it makes you feel better! :lol:
i had a depression setback with anxiety and after a cup of ipericum,2 hours later u can definetly feel better already! no placebo,this is the shit! :lol: once i smoked a joint while i was anxious and it was the worst thing i could have done..increase of heartbeat,anxiety,paranoia,obsessions..i ended with a panic attack so i brewed my strong ipericum tea and after 40-45 minutes i've felt something better!
if u've depression or mood problems try it,it's not recreational at all i think,it doesn't make you high,but if u're on the floor it makes you feel better! :lol:
LetSoulsDevour
Rising Star
Bumping this thread because I have been depressed and anxious the last two months. Have been prescribed SSRI but I won´t touch that crap.
I have ordered some Mulungu bark, tried 2 grams tea, 5 grams and yesterday I tried 10 grams. No effects whatsoever.
Also ordered Magnolia, 98% pure active ingredient (honokiol). It should arrive any day soon. Will report back after use.
Today I will order this:
Black Caapi Vine, I will do an extraction and microdose sublingually every day.
20-30mgs as someone suggested in this thread.
I will also order Salvia Divinorum leafs, microdosing here aswell.
3/4 grams of leaves chewed for 15-30 minutes then swallowed.
I don´t know why my anxiety and depression came or what triggered it, but I have been very stressed and worried every day the last year over a few things (which is out of the way now). I am getting somatic symptoms all over my body, tension everywhere that won´t relax, tingling, mini and big trigger points, pain and inflammation in areas for 2-3 days that moves to another area etc. As I feel now it is when I think of these symptoms that I am getting anxious. It may be so that I have been so accustomed to worrying the last year that now that the problem is solved I find other things to worry and feel anxious about.
Just realized I am rambling now, sorry.. The point is, any suggestion for these particular symptoms? For example magnolia is said to be anti-anxiolytic, mulungu is said to be muscle relaxant (didn´t work for me for anything). I guess the somatic symptoms will relieve once the anxiety and depression stops.
I have ordered some Mulungu bark, tried 2 grams tea, 5 grams and yesterday I tried 10 grams. No effects whatsoever.
Also ordered Magnolia, 98% pure active ingredient (honokiol). It should arrive any day soon. Will report back after use.
Today I will order this:
Black Caapi Vine, I will do an extraction and microdose sublingually every day.
20-30mgs as someone suggested in this thread.
I will also order Salvia Divinorum leafs, microdosing here aswell.
3/4 grams of leaves chewed for 15-30 minutes then swallowed.
I don´t know why my anxiety and depression came or what triggered it, but I have been very stressed and worried every day the last year over a few things (which is out of the way now). I am getting somatic symptoms all over my body, tension everywhere that won´t relax, tingling, mini and big trigger points, pain and inflammation in areas for 2-3 days that moves to another area etc. As I feel now it is when I think of these symptoms that I am getting anxious. It may be so that I have been so accustomed to worrying the last year that now that the problem is solved I find other things to worry and feel anxious about.
Just realized I am rambling now, sorry.. The point is, any suggestion for these particular symptoms? For example magnolia is said to be anti-anxiolytic, mulungu is said to be muscle relaxant (didn´t work for me for anything). I guess the somatic symptoms will relieve once the anxiety and depression stops.
..i hope one of the possibilities will be helpful LetSoulsDevour..
am really interested to hear how the Magnolia goes...i don't have any experience with it, but it's such a lovely feeling plant..
for anxiety i and a few others here have found Passiflora incarnata good (can be taken a few times a day), though different things suit different people..kava is also recommended for anxiety if passionflower doesn't work..
for the inflammation you could try small amounts of Acacia confusa (with or without caapi) - it has demonstrated anti-inflammatory effects, and has worked on one person i know in this regard..and can be calming in small doses..
(and yeah the SSRIs often just shut down aspects of experience without really treating anything.. )
the MAOI aspect of caapi may help with depression..
hoping things improve with one or more of these options, LetSoulsDevour..
.
am really interested to hear how the Magnolia goes...i don't have any experience with it, but it's such a lovely feeling plant..
for anxiety i and a few others here have found Passiflora incarnata good (can be taken a few times a day), though different things suit different people..kava is also recommended for anxiety if passionflower doesn't work..
for the inflammation you could try small amounts of Acacia confusa (with or without caapi) - it has demonstrated anti-inflammatory effects, and has worked on one person i know in this regard..and can be calming in small doses..
(and yeah the SSRIs often just shut down aspects of experience without really treating anything.. )
the MAOI aspect of caapi may help with depression..
hoping things improve with one or more of these options, LetSoulsDevour..
.
Blocking out Depression ist still a good idea. It gives your body time to heal. Depression is associated with atrophy of the hippocampus which results in lesser bndf - so this might be the reason behind combining anti-depressants with therapy: With a failing hippocampus it might be very hard to actuially learn anything from therapy.
I guess one of the challenges in self-treatment of depression is to find a combination of drugs that work and do not interact negatively. As stated before, Kava + cacao beans is a worthwhile combination, even though it is unclear if it is completely safe. What i can say is, that cacao needs to be cycled, otherwise tolerance develops and you start to feel just ugly.
Kanna would be a nice option if interactions would be better studied. It's rumored to be a SSRI and so it might interact with Kava or Caapi for that matter.
I believe that a good psychedelic experience every once in a while (like 2 weeks) helps...it would substitute therapy in the model outlined above.
It also depends on how depressed you are. In mild cases, a good workout + a bit of kanna might be enough.
I guess one of the challenges in self-treatment of depression is to find a combination of drugs that work and do not interact negatively. As stated before, Kava + cacao beans is a worthwhile combination, even though it is unclear if it is completely safe. What i can say is, that cacao needs to be cycled, otherwise tolerance develops and you start to feel just ugly.
Kanna would be a nice option if interactions would be better studied. It's rumored to be a SSRI and so it might interact with Kava or Caapi for that matter.
I believe that a good psychedelic experience every once in a while (like 2 weeks) helps...it would substitute therapy in the model outlined above.
It also depends on how depressed you are. In mild cases, a good workout + a bit of kanna might be enough.
^..good response obliguhi..and yeah some exercise and psychedelics don't go astray
i guess for the depression i was hopeful the microdosing of caapi may help..it has in a few people i'm aware of..
MAOI before SSRI..
i guess for the depression i was hopeful the microdosing of caapi may help..it has in a few people i'm aware of..
MAOI before SSRI..
LetSoulsDevour
Rising Star
Yeah, Just ordered 50x blue lotus extract, 50x passionflower extract, 5x salvia extract and also 100g plain salvia leaves as well as black caapi vine from ecuador. Now I just have to wait and wait for the items to arrive, then begins the experimenting and see what works.
I will keep log so that I can keep a track of all the substances hehe.
About exercising, I do exercise 4-5 times a week, mainly cardio to keep my body going. I dont dare do any psychedelics right now, since last time I smoked marijuana I got a full blown panic attack and my body got so tense I could barely move. With that said, I do have DMT and 10 grams of mnushrooms and also pot. But I´m afraid I will get alot worse if I take any of it. I have mainly had good experiences with psychedelics though but I have been feeling well when taking them. What do you think of a pharmahuasca? I have only smoked DMT and caapi in different occasions, no ayahuasca.
I will keep log so that I can keep a track of all the substances hehe.
About exercising, I do exercise 4-5 times a week, mainly cardio to keep my body going. I dont dare do any psychedelics right now, since last time I smoked marijuana I got a full blown panic attack and my body got so tense I could barely move. With that said, I do have DMT and 10 grams of mnushrooms and also pot. But I´m afraid I will get alot worse if I take any of it. I have mainly had good experiences with psychedelics though but I have been feeling well when taking them. What do you think of a pharmahuasca? I have only smoked DMT and caapi in different occasions, no ayahuasca.
^..i think in some cases cannabis can worsen anxiety, so i wouldn't quite put it in the same category as 'psychedelics', which i think can shift cognitive process..
i think it is the oral route/MAOI action of ayahuasca or pharmahuasca which is more suited to longer lasting shifts, and anti-depression, than smoking of DMT on it's own..partly due to the short action of the smoked route, but also MAOIs are established anti-depressants (prior to the rise of patentable synthetic SSRIs)
.
i think it is the oral route/MAOI action of ayahuasca or pharmahuasca which is more suited to longer lasting shifts, and anti-depression, than smoking of DMT on it's own..partly due to the short action of the smoked route, but also MAOIs are established anti-depressants (prior to the rise of patentable synthetic SSRIs)
.
I have found the best anti depressant for me is microdoses of mushrooms.. .1-.2 grams of cubensis taken in the morning with some tea works better than ayahuasca microdosing for me. Trytpamines seem to have stronger anti depressant effects than harmalas for my brain chemistry. To be able to get the same level of effect from oral DMT as I can with .2g cubensis requires me to eat more harmalas than I want to as a morning microdose..with mushrooms I just dont have to take any harmalas.
Doing this and then smoking larger doses of DMT once or twice a week, with some larger mushroom and ayahausca doses works well.
Skullcap is also a really great herb.
Doing this and then smoking larger doses of DMT once or twice a week, with some larger mushroom and ayahausca doses works well.
Skullcap is also a really great herb.
I was unable to get out and find and harvest mushrooms this lat season, due to circumstance, unfortunately. Last season, I was able to harvest enough to last a year of eating one or two ps cyanescens every couple weeks. This would provide an hour or so of just above threshold effects for me, and would mitigate my depression, elevating my mood for weeks afterward, until I felt it time to repeat it.
This year, I won't have that access. I went for several months with no medication of any kind until this last week, when I was able to come across a new acacia extract. I've been working with low doses of this in much the same manner, just above threshold, every day for a week now and I can already feel a vast improvement.
This extract is the result of basically an stb, and it produced a yellow oil that I'm pretty sure is nmt and dmt oxide, but it is active.
I've suffered depression most of my life, at one point, suicidal ideation was a constant. I've never tolerated SSRI medication and finding this route to wholeness has been a life saver for me. There is not only a definite effect on my brain chemistry that is positive, but the psychedelic aspect of these compounds is very effective as a therapy for me.
Self medication? It works for me!
This year, I won't have that access. I went for several months with no medication of any kind until this last week, when I was able to come across a new acacia extract. I've been working with low doses of this in much the same manner, just above threshold, every day for a week now and I can already feel a vast improvement.
This extract is the result of basically an stb, and it produced a yellow oil that I'm pretty sure is nmt and dmt oxide, but it is active.
I've suffered depression most of my life, at one point, suicidal ideation was a constant. I've never tolerated SSRI medication and finding this route to wholeness has been a life saver for me. There is not only a definite effect on my brain chemistry that is positive, but the psychedelic aspect of these compounds is very effective as a therapy for me.
Self medication? It works for me!
Lavender oil. Research has been done on it for a long time, but a recent trial with a random group of 539 adults has promising results. The active is silexan and it seemed to be more effective than seroxat (paroxetine) in research done at the university of Vienna.
"Silexan showed a pronounced antidepressant effect and improved general mental health and health-related quality of life"
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
"Silexan showed a pronounced antidepressant effect and improved general mental health and health-related quality of life"
Lavender oil preparation Silexan is effective in generalized anxiety disorder--a randomized, double-blind comparison to placebo and paroxetine - PubMed
The anxiolytic efficacy of the orally administered lavender oil preparation Silexan was investigated in generalized anxiety disorder (GAD) in comparison to placebo and paroxetine. In this randomized, double-blind, double-dummy trial 539 adults with GAD according to DSM-5 criteria and a Hamilton...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
^..thank you Poekus...a new one to add to the list..most encouraging..
also, i agree with jamie that skullcap is a great herb, especially for mood stabilisation..
null24 wrote:
dmt-n-oxide has an absolutely horrifically terrible taste and is very very difficult to smoke, and has rarely been detected in extracts/oils..
.
also, i agree with jamie that skullcap is a great herb, especially for mood stabilisation..
null24 wrote:
..it's most likely to be nmt, which i think adds beneficially and enhances meditation and calmness..
dmt-n-oxide has an absolutely horrifically terrible taste and is very very difficult to smoke, and has rarely been detected in extracts/oils..
.
The Black Cat
Rising Star
I started taking Centella Asiatica (Gotu Kola) around six months ago. Prior to that I was having long lasting near paralyzing depression. Also I was mixing it with Eclipta Alba. My diet was high in tumeric and cayanne. It took about three weeks for the changes to be noticeable. The reason I jumped at taking this is because was listed as helpful for depression because it was very effective at dendral arborization, the term for increasing dendritic branching, the end of neurons. Closes the distance between neurons I believe. It worked no matter the MOA.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
This a very important thread. Thanks
Enhancement of hippocampal CA3 neuronal dendritic arborization by Centella asiatica (Linn) fresh leaf extract treatment in adult rats - PubMed
We conclude that constituents present in Centella asiatica fresh leaf extract has neuronal dendritic growth-stimulating properties.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
This a very important thread. Thanks
Mr.Peabody
Rising Star
I'd like to share a bit of my own experience with depression and remedies.
I struggle with depression a fair amount. Most of the time it was never to bad, I'd say maybe a 6 out of 10 for intensity (10 being high). Some times it has caused me to lose a day or days to feeling like, "Meh, what's the point of doing anything?" I can usually power though that when I want, and always have when needed, but it really sucks some times. I think I actually have a fairly mild case of bipolar disorder. I know I get depressed, and then there are times I feel like I can do everything. The upside has always been manageable, enjoyable, and productive. The downside is a pain.
I took fish oil for a few years, and it definitely helped, then I added in reishi mushroom, and lions mane, mitake, and tribulus terrestris. It finally got to the point where, I didn't know if the remedies I was taking were doing anything, or they might have possibly been hurting. So I quit everything for a few months. I felt a lot better for a while, but the clouds slowly crept back in.
After reading this thread, I became interested in these remedies for depression. I figured I'd give NAC and tryptophan a try, as the thread made a good case for these supplements to regulate both dopamine and serotonin. I have been very pleased!
So I am wondering, are there any plant-based sources for either of these chemicals? I would like to try them if there are. Natural remedies tend to be more well-rounded, and easier. Plus, it may be another opportunity to cultivate some new planty relationships!
Another natural remedy I have tried a bit, though not for extended periods of time, is Amanita Muscaria. I know there are some reservations about this mushroom, but the general consensus seems to point to it being safe. I have never had any issues with it myself. It is a great winter time remedy. It warms the body, and provides a sense of motivation. I use dried mushrooms, finely ground, and make a tea out of about a tablespoon. At higher doses, I have gotten a sense of heightened power, like I am the master of my domain. Yeah, I am being a bit over the top, but it really can give a bit of a confidence boost to your outlook on life. After about 3-4 days of repeated low-dose use, the slight euphoric feeling wore off, so it seems to have a bit of a tolerance build up. Because of this, I never took it past 5 days. To me, it is a good once-in-a-while booster, and would pair especially well with a day of skiing or winter-time hiking.
Edit: After a quick search to answer my own question, I found this wiki page with a nice big list of food-based tryptophan sources. NAC seems to be a harder find, though.
Also, I'd like to point out the benefits of exercise. I think this is one of the main culprits in western society which leads to rising rates of depression. Unfortunately, being a full time student makes it hard to exercise, but I finally got a schedule that allows it, and I feel so much better....mentally at least.... feeling better physically will come in another week or so when my body is used to the extra work!
I struggle with depression a fair amount. Most of the time it was never to bad, I'd say maybe a 6 out of 10 for intensity (10 being high). Some times it has caused me to lose a day or days to feeling like, "Meh, what's the point of doing anything?" I can usually power though that when I want, and always have when needed, but it really sucks some times. I think I actually have a fairly mild case of bipolar disorder. I know I get depressed, and then there are times I feel like I can do everything. The upside has always been manageable, enjoyable, and productive. The downside is a pain.
I took fish oil for a few years, and it definitely helped, then I added in reishi mushroom, and lions mane, mitake, and tribulus terrestris. It finally got to the point where, I didn't know if the remedies I was taking were doing anything, or they might have possibly been hurting. So I quit everything for a few months. I felt a lot better for a while, but the clouds slowly crept back in.
After reading this thread, I became interested in these remedies for depression. I figured I'd give NAC and tryptophan a try, as the thread made a good case for these supplements to regulate both dopamine and serotonin. I have been very pleased!
So I am wondering, are there any plant-based sources for either of these chemicals? I would like to try them if there are. Natural remedies tend to be more well-rounded, and easier. Plus, it may be another opportunity to cultivate some new planty relationships!
Another natural remedy I have tried a bit, though not for extended periods of time, is Amanita Muscaria. I know there are some reservations about this mushroom, but the general consensus seems to point to it being safe. I have never had any issues with it myself. It is a great winter time remedy. It warms the body, and provides a sense of motivation. I use dried mushrooms, finely ground, and make a tea out of about a tablespoon. At higher doses, I have gotten a sense of heightened power, like I am the master of my domain. Yeah, I am being a bit over the top, but it really can give a bit of a confidence boost to your outlook on life. After about 3-4 days of repeated low-dose use, the slight euphoric feeling wore off, so it seems to have a bit of a tolerance build up. Because of this, I never took it past 5 days. To me, it is a good once-in-a-while booster, and would pair especially well with a day of skiing or winter-time hiking.
Edit: After a quick search to answer my own question, I found this wiki page with a nice big list of food-based tryptophan sources. NAC seems to be a harder find, though.
Also, I'd like to point out the benefits of exercise. I think this is one of the main culprits in western society which leads to rising rates of depression. Unfortunately, being a full time student makes it hard to exercise, but I finally got a schedule that allows it, and I feel so much better....mentally at least.... feeling better physically will come in another week or so when my body is used to the extra work!
LetSoulsDevour
Rising Star
Ok so today I got my bottle of 98% pure honokiol (wihoo). You can already tell that I have taken some, right? I took 1 cap (250mg) approximately 1.5h ago. I definitely feel more at ease and my motivation seemed to have come back a bit. I do not know if this is placebo, however, clinical trials has shown it to have similar effects as diazepam except for the muscle relaxant effect of the latter. It has also been shown to be able to regulate abnormalities in 5-HT receptors, which we all know plays a significant role in depression. And this leads me to my question here: Do you think it is safe to smoke a tiny amount of 10x caapi leaves? I mean maybe 50mg or so. The effects of honokiol at the 5-ht receptors are not well researched, but this is what one study says:
...And it markedly increased 5-HIAA levels in frontal cortex, striatum and nucleus accumbens at 40 mg/kg and in frontal cortex at 20 mg/kg in the CMS rats. A subsequent reduction in 5-HIAA/5-HT ratio was found in hippocampus and nucleus accumbens in the CMS rats receiving this mixture...
...These results suggested that the mixture of honokiol and magnolol possessed potent antidepressant-like properties in behaviors involved in normalization of biochemical abnormalities in brain 5-HT and 5-HIAA, serum corticosterone levels and platelet AC activity in the CMS rats...
Source: Antidepressant-like effects of the mixture of honokiol and magnolol from the barks of Magnolia officinalis in stressed rodents - PubMed
So the question is, safe to inhale some 10x caapi leaves at this point?
EDIT: I tried smoking some 10x caapi leaves as said. No more than 50mg I think. Started of with one puff, waited 5 minutes, another puff, waited 5 minutes and then took another puff. No adverse effects occurred. However, since I mean to microdose caapi harmalas in the future, (20-40mg) every day, I´m still ponding if it is safe to take these two together. For the record, the last 2 days I have smoked 100mg of 10x caapi, in case it matters.
...And it markedly increased 5-HIAA levels in frontal cortex, striatum and nucleus accumbens at 40 mg/kg and in frontal cortex at 20 mg/kg in the CMS rats. A subsequent reduction in 5-HIAA/5-HT ratio was found in hippocampus and nucleus accumbens in the CMS rats receiving this mixture...
...These results suggested that the mixture of honokiol and magnolol possessed potent antidepressant-like properties in behaviors involved in normalization of biochemical abnormalities in brain 5-HT and 5-HIAA, serum corticosterone levels and platelet AC activity in the CMS rats...
Source: Antidepressant-like effects of the mixture of honokiol and magnolol from the barks of Magnolia officinalis in stressed rodents - PubMed
So the question is, safe to inhale some 10x caapi leaves at this point?
EDIT: I tried smoking some 10x caapi leaves as said. No more than 50mg I think. Started of with one puff, waited 5 minutes, another puff, waited 5 minutes and then took another puff. No adverse effects occurred. However, since I mean to microdose caapi harmalas in the future, (20-40mg) every day, I´m still ponding if it is safe to take these two together. For the record, the last 2 days I have smoked 100mg of 10x caapi, in case it matters.
High dose cappi or rue works fantastic for depression...When I say high dose I mean a dose that is purgative. Last time I did this with rue it was 400mgs...and I had intense tracers and full on sickness for 4-5 hours. The next day though the entire world had a new sparkle to it...
I also find it better to take a full dose of shrooms as opposed to microdosing them for depression. Something about the visionary state seems to help purge the consciousness of it's baggage though it's not always pretty.
Peace
I also find it better to take a full dose of shrooms as opposed to microdosing them for depression. Something about the visionary state seems to help purge the consciousness of it's baggage though it's not always pretty.
Peace
Mr.Peabody..nice to hear from you and thanks for that helpful information, and for answering your own question :d
..yeah there's a lot of food sources for tryptophan, and a few for N-Acetyl Cysteine..i haven't found any plant especially concentrated in them, but i guess it leads back to age old 'diet and exercise' starting point for mood..when you say that you've now found time for a routine for exercise, which is great btw, i also think just having some kind of regular routine and focus also helps..
you wrote:
HerosJourney..great solid info...diversifying the thread further..much appreciated..
joedirt..while i don't disagree with what you're saying about caapi/rue, i personally feel it is good to be cautious with diet above a certain dose...'you are what you eat' (which can be amplified in a high dose harmala state)
certainly, a good ayahuasca purge can clear out lots of 'stuff' which has been blocking the mind and mood..
..the idea od microdosing suits a daily regime..
LetSoulsDevour...thanks for the research...i think harmalas are more longterm effective orally than smoked..
..yeah there's a lot of food sources for tryptophan, and a few for N-Acetyl Cysteine..i haven't found any plant especially concentrated in them, but i guess it leads back to age old 'diet and exercise' starting point for mood..when you say that you've now found time for a routine for exercise, which is great btw, i also think just having some kind of regular routine and focus also helps..
you wrote:
..this is very interesting..thank you
HerosJourney..great solid info...diversifying the thread further..much appreciated..
joedirt..while i don't disagree with what you're saying about caapi/rue, i personally feel it is good to be cautious with diet above a certain dose...'you are what you eat' (which can be amplified in a high dose harmala state)
certainly, a good ayahuasca purge can clear out lots of 'stuff' which has been blocking the mind and mood..
..the idea od microdosing suits a daily regime..
LetSoulsDevour...thanks for the research...i think harmalas are more longterm effective orally than smoked..
Similar threads
- Sticky
