Plant based Anti-depressants

[Coja]

If the depression is primarily stress related, adaptogens might be beneficial. Strong Rhodiola rosea extracts have helped me through some of the more difficult times in my adult life, without causing any effects that dulled or otherwise limited my functioning. I'm not sure if it would be safe to take with prescription SSRI drugs however.

There's also some research showing promising therapeutic use for dissociatives for the treatment of acute depression, a Salvia divinorium breakthrough would likely do as well as a trip to the K or MXE hole imho for that job.

 

[indydude19]

Anyone ever had success with using LSD, mushrooms, or DMT to cure depression? I am not sure that i have depression (always leaned more towards bipolar or manic-depressive), but i once used a series of trips of LSD and mushrooms and DMT to at least come out of a depressive episode.

I took approximately 300-400 mics of LSD one weekend, then 3 or 4 days later i took an eighth of some penis envies(fantastic potency), and then 2 days later i had 3 breakthrough trips. I meditated on issues and concerns, as well as possible solutions, before each breakthrough. Before and during each trip of LSD and Mushrooms, I collected my self in what i viewed was the best way to direction me towards change.

The result was not immediate, but within a couple days i noticed a very very dramatic change in my attitude. i was very optimistic, more content, more docile, and was fine with anything that happened. I even started working out 5 days a week minimum for the next 4 months or so.

Not all of the changes completely stuck, but i must say some of them seemed to be pretty permanent, and i definitely feel there is a strong correlation between that change of attitude and the trip recovery i tried. Also about a month after that change, i started having weird reactions to psychedelics (that was the first time i had tried since the change).

I experienced much stronger effects from the same doses and had very persistent HPPD, which convinced me to take an 8 month break, until i felt comfortable again. After my break i had regular effects, maybe a little strong but not much more than regular, and much smoother transitions into breakthroughs. I am much less philosophical in altered states now as well, though not necessarily in a negative way.

Has anyone else had a similar experience or any knowledge of what happened to my brain or neurochemistry?

Sorry if this is not the appropriate place or if i am derailing at all. mods feel free to move, edit, or delete the post

 

[LetSoulsDevour]

Hi, just wanted to update the info on honokiol in combination with maoi´s/rimas.. I mailed the company that makes 98% pure honokiol. Here is the answer I got:

"This class of antidepressants [MAOI´S/RIMAS] can have serious drug/drug and drug/herb interactions. The interaction between honokiol and antidepressant drugs has not been studied in humans (or animals as far as I know). Because this type of drug has potential for serious interactions I would not recommend taking honokiol while taking these drugs. Since we don't know, and it will most likely never be studied, better to err on the safe side."

I think honokiol worked well the 4 days I tried it actually, I decided to discontinue it because I wanted to give caapi a shot instead (cheaper and more long-term solution). I actually got also got back my sleeping patterns after these 4 days of honokiol, I can´t be sure that it was only the honokiol but I now can drift off to sleep much easier and only wake up once or twice a night for a short period before going back to sleep. Recommended if you don´t take any other antidepressants.

As for caapi, I made a 50g brew 3x3 boil, reduced it to 2 liters and poured in some alcohol to keep it from going bad. It is stored in the fridge and I drink 1dl every morning after lightly boiling of the alcohol. this means that I drink caapi tea from 2.5g of vine every day. Assuming that the alkaloid content is 1%, I get 25mg of active ingridients. I have been noticing a slight uplift in mood but nothing dramatic. The anxiety isn´t either as bothersome as before. The bodily symptoms like tension etc remains unchanged however. I have tried this for 2 weeks and am convinced that the results will be greater if I stay presistent, will also make an extraction real soon so that I can dose more accurately.

I also chew some dried salvia leaves 3 times a week. I take 0.5g, chew it for 30 minutes wile keeping everything in my mouth, its very bitter! I have tried this only for 1 week so can´t say if I have noticed any changes yet. I do believe that I have to work with the caapi as well as salvia for a while to get the most benefit out of them, and also work on areas in my life that makes me feel depressed and anxious.

 

[obliguhl]

I chewed up 0.3g dry leaf shortly before going to bed, to see if it would have any positive effects on my dream state. I got threshhold salvia effects, some light visuals even and tried to sleep. I was very hard and uncomfortable because as i drifted into the hypnagogic state, i felt agitated, dizzy with mad thoughts running through my head. After a couple of hours, i finally found sleep and had nightmarish dreams, adressing key psychological issues.

I woke up the next morning feeling super groggy, hungover....but at the same time eager to start the day.

I forgot about this experience and tried it again at the same dosage. I spat it out after i got some threshhold salvia effects and went to sleep. Rather normal dreams, no hangover but i WAS "eager to start the day".

It is encouraging.

 

[jamie]

Ive had so much depression the last year, and had to work non stop sometimes 50-60 hours a week..feeling like I lost everything that mattered in life.

Without mushrooms, I am unsure where I would be. I think they kept me stable enough to hold a job, get out of debt and fix my life etc. Very low doses are the most effective anti-depressant I have encountered.

Ive just had days and weeks where I was very very very sad, lonely and hopeless and mushrooms were like a light in a dark place, even if just microdoses.

 

[jamie]

oh also..5-MeO-DMT

I have had the opportunity to work with pure, sythetic 5-MeO-DMT recently, and I have nothing but good things to say about it.

In very low doses, about 1-2mg vaporized, it has been a very effective theraputic tool for me. I have been very cautious with it and used it infrequently. It is superior to MDMA at this dose level IMO...most people only hear about really heavy white light god experiences with this molecule..and higher dose are certainly interesting but that's not for this thread.

In low threshhold doses it is an extremely effective empathogenic tool for therapy. It brings your right into the now, in your body..it can be very energetic similar to MDMA but feels more natural.

I have a big ammount of respect for MDMA, but I have not taken it in many years. MDMA really helped to me feel free enough to dance years ago, and I have encountered numerous people at conferences and MAPS events over the last year with serious trauma who were healed with MDMA...so I am not saying this is better, however I think I prefer it.

5-MeO-DMT lasts much longer than DMT. You have 45 minutes to an hour IME to work with the medicine when vaporized, which makes it ideal. DMT does not support this kind of theraputic work when vaporized in the same way.

Happiness does not exist in a substance, or an herb. It can only exist within you. There are medicines which can help you move towards that space, but you have to do more than just take them. Happiness is something in life that you cultivate.

...and on a sort of random, perhaps strange note...two more things that have helped me in ways I cannot describe, have been vedanta, and the gnostic gospels. Hell I even read parts of the bible the last year. Suffering is nothing new to humanity, but know that there is light in the dark places.

 

[jamie]

 

[downwardsfromzero]

My plant armoury against depression includes:

* growing plants and getting to know them!

* meeting plants out in nature, preferably on a decent walk to get some exercise

Moving on to actual ingestion of plant matter or preparations, there's a sort of sliding scale:- fundamentally, eat plenty of (organic) vegetables including green salad and sprouted pulses and grains. Nuts are great too, especially when soaked for a few hours beforehand.

Then herb teas - stinging nettle, chamomile, limeflower, betony, lemon balm, peppermint, white deadnettle and elecampane take care of most issues these days. I will always acknowledge the power of caffeinated beverages - particularly green tea, and coffee - for providing an uplift. The key is mindful usage (IMHO).

I often uses spices with coffee - cinnamon, cardamom, cloves and calamus combine well in the right proportions, for example. In case of needing to function socially when sleep deprived, tincture of nutmeg is very helpful, IME.

I'll sometimes use things like ginseng, eleutherococcus, gotu kola and Tribulus terrestris when work is a bit more demanding. If anxiety gets bad, then Californian poppy is an invaluable aid.

All this has given me the space to adjust my thought processes such that I'm more inclined to maintaining positive mood anyhow. There's more, but that would be too much biography!

 

[nen888]

belated thanksfor your post LetSoulsDevour..

and obliguhl, good to hear the salvia was encouraging..thanks..
i remember when experimenting with salvia years ago that i concluded it was impossible to be depressed afterwards..whatever the kind of experience..

hi jamie..thanks for that, appreciate..
..yeah i find a bit of vedanta (and gnosticism) can do the trick :thumb_up:

i definitely think 5meoDMT has deep therapeutic value, though i'm a bit reserved about long term regular use, in the context of anti-depressent..so interesting your observations..
in an entheogenic context, there was some issues raised by the late D.M.Turner to do with repeated use, and dietary reactions..this is with slightly larger doses though..he, and a number of people have reported 'reverse-tolerance' with 5meoDMT..i.e. the effects become stronger with repeated use..also heart issues..some caution is think is advised..

and thank you also downwardsfromzero..i also think exercise, diet, and the caring for plants does the trick too
i would also single out the calming or centering effects of nettle, from experience..a very good plant in this context, with good health benefits..

 

[obliguhl]

i remember when experimenting with salvia years ago that i concluded it was impossible to be depressed afterwards..whatever the kind of experience

It always left me rather neutral, or in a negative state if anything, considering a big enough dose. That's why i have initially dismissed it and could never understand all that talk about its anti-depressive effects. Turns out, bigger doses might in fact be pro-depressive while smaller ones are anti-depressive. I can try to provide the source if necessary.

I've tried the 0.3g two times again, on two consecutive nights. The effects appear to get stronger, but so does a certain sense of drowsiness. Last night, i've had the most perfect dream for a long time and woke up very happy. To me it seems that microdisng of Salvia Divinorum increases the likelihood for positive stimuli to actually cause pleasurable feelings. In that way, it might very well be antidepressive.

 

[Chan]

This is a bit off-topic, but perhaps relevant to some, and it def goes well with the use of plant-based ADs.

[I wish I could type in a Nigerian accent!]

Go and play some African music very loud!

There are many, many types obviously, so find the type that works for you. I dabbled for years, but it wasn't until I first did iboga, with lots of bwiti music that it "clicked". The polyrhythms (e.g. 3 against 2) really stretch both brain hemispheres and controller functions, hopefully diminishing the resources fuelling the depression.

Intellectually, it's also helpful to come across say, a field recording from a remote tribe where you guess they have next to nothing, apart from life-threatening diseases and/or predators to worry about, and yet can sing with an exuberance that makes ALL of our music sound pretty hollow and self-absorbed.

When I slid downwards, I noticed I stopped listening to music completely, everything was "meh". It was pushing myself to seek out new and unfamiliar stuff that helped a lot. The new amp didn't hurt either!

Like ethnobotany, the field of African music could fill many lifetimes, so you need never hear the same thing twice.

http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/music_therapy.html