Please help me make sense of my two opposite experiences with red jungle spice vs yellow DMT?

[GeometricRhythms]

Apologies if this is not the right place to post this as a new member. I'm am just very much in need of some advice or guidance right now.

The first DMT I ever tried was red jungle spice with a kind of wet crumble texture.
All the trips I had with it were very pleasant and uplifting, lasting about 15 to 30 minutes. The most powerful was on about 50mg when my body and the room around me flattened and my essence was sucked into a cathedral-like space that was flowing around and through me. There was unity with everything that ever has been or ever will be. Just pure love, peace, and cosmic joy. The visuals were more akin to what I've experienced with mushrooms. Everything felt hyper real, however I never experienced any "entities" or anything truly alien. It reminded me very much of deep meditation.

The current batch of DMT I have is more of a pale yellow powder/crumble texture. Last night I did not have the good judgment to test it with a small dose first and went for a 50mg trip. The experience that followed was extremely digital/synthetic and overwhelmingly scary/confusing. It lasted about 5 minutes. Reality dissolved into the most electric and jewel-like, impossibly intricate fractals that I've ever comprehended. I still knew that I was me, but the sheer rush and sharp plastic quality to the experience scared me like nothing else. I was quickly slammed back into my body where I then perceived that my body wasn't breathing and spent the rest of my come-down focusing on forcing air in and out. Once again, I never met "entities".

I'm honestly rattled by it all and don't intend to use again for a long time. I've been struggling all day to make sense of what happened. There was nothing spiritual or joyful about it. Just confusing and scary. Was I hyper slapped for some reason? Where are these "entities" that people keep talking about?

Anyway, if you've managed to read this far, thanks for you time and any help you can provide to reconcile these two very different experiences with DMT!

 

[null24]

Hey, I'm sorry it was such a confusing and overwhelming experience that brought you here. It is probably a good idea to take the time allow yourself to let any uncomfortable feelings around it pass, an experience like that can be traumatizing. Maybe later you may want to return to it, maybe not. I hope you are able to find some answers to your questions that will increase your peace, I know that a hyperslap is very unsettling to the psyche. It kind of feels like the aftermath of a really intense nightmare to me. There can be a very real trauma response, letting those intense uncomfortable feelings flow through is important in processing it.

Sometimes with DMT, even if one has done it before, the immediate onset can be veeerrry unsettling. No matter how much one prepares, taking a hit and blowing out a cloud of fractal rainbows can cause a panic reaction, and that in turn cascades into a fear of letting go as your psyche dissolves into a state under which it has no control. Instant chaos, and your rational mind, fearing actual death, will try to snap out of it as quickly as you can. As soon as your metabolism has processed enough molecule, "you" are back, but panting for breath because you were, indeed holding it for a while. And you will feel traumatized for good reason. It is okay though, it doesn't actually mean anything other than that you likely just smoked way too much DMT too well.

I can't really speak to the difference between the two things you smoked, DMT indeed does appear in both of the forms you described, but perhaps the jungle spice had a MAOI that slowed and lengthened the trip. Or maybe it was just less potent. Or differences in smoking methods or apparatus each time. 50mg just smoked on top of a bowl will be a threshold experience or more. 50mg, if you vaporize it well, is more than sufficient to create the response you describe, which does indeed sound like the dreaded hyperslap.

I guess I can only really speak for myself, but I'll say for some enthusiasts, smoking DMT opens us up to the potential of an expanded reality that may or may not emerge from consciousness itself. I think it is a better tool for exploring creative consciousness and the questionable nature of reality than it is for realizing spiritual potential. In my experience, the entity thing is the sensory interaction that seems to be occuring in DMT space. There is a presence of Otherness that manifests through my senses in a way that makes it feel unquestionably separate and autonomous from me at the time. It is almost impossible to adequately describe, hence all the lacking terms over the years. Entities actually works pretty well for me.

Anyway, good luck.:thumb_up:

 

[Voidmatrix]

Greetings my friend.

First of all, DMT will always have something new to show you. Keep your mind open.

Sometimes it seems entities may not feel the need to interact. Sometimes they seem to want to observe how we fair in the space. All the same, shed your expectations. You've heard about other individuals achieving entity contact, and so now it's in your mind to expect the same. For me, they show up almost unexpectedly. Some people never have encounters in the time they use DMT. While there is the appearance of intersubjective correspondence in experience, your experience is ultimately your own.

Be receptive and do your best to manage the power of suggestion.

Taking a break is good. There are some experiences that will take time to process. Processing these experiences is often referred to as integration. Meditate on your experiences and see what manifests in your mind.

And not all experiences are "joyful." Just the nature of the game with psychedelics in general and is the risk one takes when entering these spaces. And sometimes a spiritual experience can be simply the augmentation of consicousness. Some may say the soul/spirit (depending on what paradigm tickles your fancy) is consciousness or at the very least inextricably linked. And the more you do it, the more accustom to it you become, the less big downloads you're given.

Also, on this path, you may collect more questions than answers, so try not to ruminate too hard on having it make sense to you. Sometimes they're just enigmatic gifts that we then carry with us in our lives.

There seems to be a lot more breadth to hyperspace which may explain the dynamic difference in your experience.

And no, it doesn't sound like you were hyperslapped, just taken on a wild ride with your new batch.

Extracting from different materials and the polymorphism your final product sits at can also change the nature of the experience.

Had you had any major happenings or life changes before the journey that threw you for a loop.

I hope this helps. Keep your mind open.

Chop wood; Carry water.

One love

 

[GeometricRhythms]

Sometimes with DMT, even if one has done it before, the immediate onset can be veeerrry unsettling. No matter how much one prepares, taking a hit and blowing out a cloud of fractal rainbows can cause a panic reaction, and that in turn cascades into a fear of letting go as your psyche dissolves into a state under which it has no control. Instant chaos, and your rational mind, fearing actual death, will try to snap out of it as quickly as you can. As soon as your metabolism has processed enough molecule, "you" are back, but panting for breath because you were, indeed holding it for a while. And you will feel traumatized for good reason. It is okay though, it doesn't actually mean anything other than that you likely just smoked way too much DMT too well.

Wow, thank you for such a thoughtful and detailed response! I think what you said in the quoted paragraph above makes complete sense to me and is likely what happened. The onset was just so different from the jungle spice trips. I already knew it was going to be insanely intense before I could breathe it all out.

I have had the privilege of using my Volcano Digit with every DMT experience, so it's always been consistent in that sense. But just as I type this it's occurring to me that I may not have vaped all of what was in the liquid pad from the last trip I had :shock: It's indeed possible that what I inhaled was much more than 50mg even!

Interesting take on entities, thanks for sharing. It's not something I really expect to experience, more of something I wonder about after the fact as it seems to be a common theme for many people. I'm not sure I'll ever really know it for myself at this point! My intuition is still telling me not to touch this crazy molecule for a long time yet. I think I'll stick to my beloved shrooms.

 

[GeometricRhythms]

Greetings my friend.

First of all, DMT will always have something new to show you. Keep your mind open.

Sometimes it seems entities may not feel the need to interact. Sometimes they seem to want to observe how we fair in the space. All the same, shed your expectations. You've heard about other individuals achieving entity contact, and so now it's in your mind to expect the same. For me, they show up almost unexpectedly. Some people never have encounters in the time they use DMT. While there is the appearance of intersubjective correspondence in experience, your experience is ultimately your own.

Be receptive and do your best to manage the power of suggestion.

Taking a break is good. There are some experiences that will take time to process. Processing these experiences is often referred to as integration. Meditate on your experiences and see what manifests in your mind.

And not all experiences are "joyful." Just the nature of the game with psychedelics in general and is the risk one takes when entering these spaces. And sometimes a spiritual experience can be simply the augmentation of consicousness. Some may say the soul/spirit (depending on what paradigm tickles your fancy) is consciousness or at the very least inextricably linked. And the more you do it, the more accustom to it you become, the less big downloads you're given.

Also, on this path, you may collect more questions than answers, so try not to ruminate too hard on having it make sense to you. Sometimes they're just enigmatic gifts that we then carry with us in our lives.

There seems to be a lot more breadth to hyperspace which may explain the dynamic difference in your experience.

And no, it doesn't sound like you were hyperslapped, just taken on a wild ride with your new batch.

Extracting from different materials and the polymorphism your final product sits at can also change the nature of the experience.

Had you had any major happenings or life changes before the journey that threw you for a loop.

I hope this helps. Keep your mind open.

Chop wood; Carry water.

One love

Hi! Thank you for taking the time to respond at such length, very much appreciated. I think entities are less something that I'm expecting to meet, and more something that I wonder about after my trips because it's so common for other users. There definitely could be a subconscious expectation though. I always meditate before tripping and am (usually) quite good at totally surrendering and remaining open to the experience.

The suggestion to meditate on the experience is really good advice though, I actually had a rough night sleep after this experience and struggled to get through my typical morning meditation. I will sit with myself longer tomorrow and see what arises now that the shock of the trip is not so fresh.

I have not had any major life changes or events lately that could have thrown me for a loop. In fact I just recently came back from a lovely holiday and am in good spirits! I obviously have much to learn about how to approach this drug and leave myself more open to its wildly differing expressions. I will not be so naive if there is ever a next time.

 

[Voidmatrix]

I understand that. I find in many reports of multiple kinds, people speaking of past life experiences and becoming in touch with ancestors and such. I've heard this for many psychedelics. I personally never really come across that type of experience myself. Most of the things contacted ime are usually more alien than not. I embrace it and I love it. We are all connected to the grand mystery in a variety of ways.

I look forward to hearing how sitting with that restlessness goes. I anticipate you'll learn a lot, and who knows, maybe even think about approaching the experience again sooner than expected.

There may not be a substance more vast. There's always a lot to unpack. For me, that's why it never gets old.

One love

 

[ShamanisticVibes]

This is not 100% fact, but anecdotal theory, here.

I have been involved in quite a few deep discussions as to the difference between pure white, yellow, and the more orangish/red jungle spice at an alkaloidal level. One thing that seems to be certain is that the more color, the more non-NNDMT alkaloids and plant fats may be present. Unfortunately, without extensive scientific research, it is impossible for us the know how these added compounds interact with one another and our own brain chemistry. The spice, itself, though, seems to work along side our own conscious and subconscious to create a seemingly unique experience while also sticking with the theme "hyperspace".

I know that IME I have had very different experiences with jungle spice than I have had with what is considered to be more "pure" variations such as light yellow and white. Differentiating what comes from the mind and what comes from the cocktail of compounds/fats and tannins is a much more difficult endeavor. But personally, I feel as if having a bit of plant fat makes the experience a bit more pleasant for me. Although this is purely anecdotal.


Expecting something, and then having that expectation shattered (as well as a much larger dose, as you suspect could be the case) could cause your mind to take a completely different turn than you had hoped. And once you start spiraling down that drain, it can be difficult to "put the toothpaste back in the tube".

As for the breathing thing, this is somewhat normal, IME. Think about when you see or feel something that truly blows your mind, you gasp, and depending on how immersed you are in what you are experiencing, you may hold your breath for an extended period of time naturally. Your susceptible state-of-mind at the time is what could be causing you to have the feeling that you "can't" breathe, but it is possible that this is a conclusion jumped to on account that you lose yourself for a time, then come back into "you" in the state of holding your breath.

Again, this is all conjecture, but it is my two cents on what COULD possibly be the root of what you may have been experiencing. I am in no way an expert, or "enlightened". I just notice some similarities in your experience and some that I have had in the past. My guesses are based on conversations I have had with others, little tidbits I have read here and there, and internal monologues I have had with myself during long periods of integration and in no way should be taken as fact. Perhaps just food for thought, or a foundation for your own further explorations within.

Have a blessed day, my friend, and I hope that you are able to make sense of all of this. Remember....integrate, integrate, integrate!

 

[Tony6Strings]

You can smoke 10 breakthru doses and have 10 distinctly different experiences from the exact same batch of dmt. It is the wildest stuff on the planet.

My most memorable jungle spice breakthru involved becoming walls of color in my bedroom, actually being these 2 dimensional sheets of the most amazing colors for a short time, one after another. Was yelling about it to my girl the whole time. It was crazy. This was from vaping 40 mg full spectrum (xylene evaporated) mimosa extract on the tail end of experiencing 400 ug LSD.