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Poorly understood family of AYAHUASCA vines

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so I drank that muricata about 10 minutes ago..and I can already feel it for sure..so it is active at least for me at even 10g..though I can feel caapi usually at 10g too..this feels like it is stronger than B.caapi though..

It tastes like caapi but also different..more chalky or something maybe but woody as well..hard to tell though with only 10g as it is not that bitter becasue I did not super reduce it. I am used to brewing a kilo of vine down so that 100g is like 1 shot glass..

Very nice somatic glow though right now..

edit..okay now I can realy feel it. This vine does feel powerful.

Just puked...not super floored or anything but def ayahuasca glowy headspace and some nausea. No doubt that muricata is stronger than the bulk of the B.caapi out there. On par with the strongest caapi vine I have ever drunk.
 
oh man this is some *very* special ayahuasca! I will be interested in how others repond to this vine and if it really is this powerful for everyone or if I just have some strange alien brain.

I just had some deep revelation about my life on the floor wrapped in a blanket..no visions or anything but I did not even close my eyes..just lay there with watery eyes with a giant crystal ball and paul oakenfold..strong medicine glow more magical than MDMA..

Becometheother..I dunno how you drank 50g of this vine with admixture! Were you off the planet for a while or what? I think 25g would be my upper limit with this vine..

Note that I did drink on an emptry stomach and I did not filter out sediments, and I am generally sensitive to both vine and admixture due to working with ayahuasca a lot.

I remember reading a while back that muricata has different harmalas than caapi..I think norharman was one of them..anyway this is interesting stuff.
 
"Banisteriopsis argentea (Spreng. exA. Juss.)
Morton
A native of India, this species contains tetrahydroharman, 5-methoxytetrahydroharman, harmine, harmaline, and the ~-carboline leptaflorin (Ghosal et al., 1971). The leaves contain only 0.020/0 alkaloids [(+)-Nb-methyltetrahydroharmane, N,N-DMT, N,N-DMT-Nb-oxide, (+)tetrahydroharmine, harmaline, choline, betaine, (+)-5-methoxytetrahydroharmane] (Ghosal and Mazumder 1971). We know, however, of no traditional use as a psychoactive plant (Schultes and Farnsworth 1982, 147*). Banisteriopsis argentea may be synonymous with Banisteriopsis muricata (see below)."


Note that B.argentea and B.Muricata are though to be the same species. I dunno why it says a "native of india" though????
 
jamie said:
Note that B.argentea and B.Muricata are though to be the same species. I dunno why it says a "native of india" though????
Click to expand...
Turns out that they're nomenclatural synonyms...two names, one plant :)

B. Muricata is the accepted name.

Trying to see if I can find any further info on nativity.
 
Working on getting as many of these as possible...I can include descriptions in this or another post, whatever people feel is least cluttered/most helpful...just lemme know.

D. cabrerana
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B. muricata
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A. anisopetala
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Cheers jamie, amazing that you felt the special power of the vine! thank you for your very valuable bioassay.

About my experience with muricata: Here is where i have some confusion....

Remeber when i said kiwi offers black and red muricata on his site? Well apparently you guys are right, i dont see black muricata for sale there.

But my b. muricata (which i dont see on his site at all) is not red but BLACK. He definelty used to have it on his site, but i dont see it there anymore

The way i got it was i asked him about other poorly understood varieties of ayahuasca, and he sent me a few 1kg samples of different kinds of vine, and told me he was including a new vine for me to sample called B. muricata.

He told me and i quote " I sent for you to test out a very powerful variety of rope, known locally as black ayahuasca and it is used only by the shamans, with great respect, because it is very powerful."

So jamie, this wasnt the same RED muricata you used..

Yes the 50 gram experience was very harmala heavy feeling stuff. Much more powerful than even 120 grams of yellow ayahuasca, and there was no need for an admixture (because of the intensity).

I completely relate when you say

quote "oh man this is some *very* special ayahuasca! I will be interested in how others repond to this vine and if it really is this powerful for everyone or if I just have some strange alien brain.

I just had some deep revelation about my life on the floor wrapped in a blanket..no visions or anything but I did not even close my eyes..just lay there with watery eyes with a giant crystal ball and paul oakenfold..strong medicine glow more magical than MDMA.."

I feel the same way! Powerful revelations and magic in this vine! Definelty a very different experience than a standard yellow ayahuasca brew.

Im glad some one drank one of the vines in question. Cheers jamie!@
 
B. argentea is accepted as a synonym of B. muricata, but NOT native to India. Those high percentages seem to be baseless, but the claim of DMT in B. muricata is not, and is from analysis on a plant growing in India in a Botanical Garden. The concentrations found were very low, though. The Ghosal citations are correct. Here are the details for the original papers -
Ghosal, S. & Mazumder, U.K. 1971. "Alkaloids of the leaves of Banisteriopsis argentea." Phytochemistry 10:2840-2841.
Ghosal, S. et al. 1971. "Chemical and pharmacological investigations of Banisteriopsis argentea Spring ex Juss." J. Pharmaceutical Science 60(8):1209-1212.
Leaves yielded only 0.02% alkaloids, including (as % of dry leaf weight) harmine (0.006%), harmaline (0.001%), leptaflorine (0.005%), 5-MeO-tetrahydroharman (0.004%), N-methyltetrahydroharman (0.002%), DMT (0.003%) and DMT N-oxide (0.001%). They didn't look at the stems...
 
the 6 or 10% claims for beta carboline content of the stems do seem high, though I can now say from experience that this vine does seem to be much more potent than the bulk of B.caapi out there. Only once have I encountered B.caapi that seems comparable in strength and it was that vine that I drank 80g of and basically died for 3 hours..20g of that vine is a strong dose..and the muricata I drank 3 days ago was definatly active at just 10g..I can imagine DMT being active with 20g of this vine.

I am not sure why the witoto claim B.caapi is stronger than muricata, but I am sure they are not correct on this..maybe they just mean that they prefer caapi? This muricata is one of the nicest feeling vines I have drunk. I microdosed aout 3g last night as well and could for sure feel it as I was falling asleap..very nice empathic glow.
 
wow..this black vine is very powerful as well!

I only drink 5g of it not wanting to really end up floored in some harmala space today..and even at only 5g I have a very very nice vine glow..this vine must be on par with the muricata..

I bet 20g of this vine would be enough to fully activate admixture.

Gunna smoke some changa in a little bit when the glow plateaus..see how that goes.

More experiments with full doses and admixture will come in the future. I have a bottle of some super potent B.caapi ayahuasca I need to finish drinking first.
 
Is that the black vine that you origionally thought was anisopteala?

I ask because i think the black vine you were just talking about, and the black vine i was refering to as "black muricata", are one in the same.

They both came from kiwi, and my black vine looks like yours, and i also found it to be a potent source of harmalas, just like you, up to 4x as potent.

cheers my friend.
 
are you sure what you got as "black muricata" was really muricata? I highly doubt this vine could be muricata. It looks nothing like muricata. Muricata smells like Banisteriopsis caapi, which makes sense it being banisteriopsis muricata..they are of the same genus..and also have the same cross section. They are very similar vines in apparearance.

This black vone does not really resemble the muricata at all. It is a greyish color, almost blackish is some places and has a totally different cross section pattern. It also smells totally different from both caapi and muricata. If it really is another variety of Muricata why would it appear so different? Two vines of the same genus and species but seperate varieties being different to that degree seems unlikely to me.

If you take the tukanaka and caupuri varieties of B.caapi for example, they still resemble each other as they have the same cross section and the color is the same etc..the muricata and this black vine I have just dont look alike, smell alike and the the color of the brews are completely different as well..

Also another reason I beleive this is the true alicia anisopetela is that chaliponga dream talks about boiling it down to an "oil"..and when this vine is reduced there is definatly more oils than in any other vine i have ever seen..neither caapi nor muricata are like this..there is a thick oily film on the brew that shimmers a bit when reduced just like how chaliponga dream from the aya forums describes it. Snozz also has some alicia vine from kiwi and I just spoke with him about an extraction he was doing and the first thing he mentioned was the large ammounts of oils presenet in the vine he had to deal with.
 
Cheers jamie,

I got to thinking, you are probably right about my black ayahuasca. I dont explicitly remember him telling me it was b. muricata black, he did just call it "black". Its just at the time he offered "black muricata" on his site, and it resembled the vine i had, so i was sure it was black muricata. There is a good chance it is a black b. cappi.... Ill have to work with it more to know it better...

The alecia i have though i am quite positive of its identification, because alfonzo told me it was alecia anisopetala, the bark is very distinct looking and my vine looks 100% exactly like the alecia vine section on the site. It lacks cappi smell.

I have used the alecia 2 times now vine and leaf once at 25 grams vine and 10 grams leaf and once at 50 and 20, even the 25 gram experience was a good "threshold aya" experience, where insights are had, mind is expanded, just not intense.

50 and 20 was very powerful and mysterious and unexpected experience, at times challenging and scary, but ultimately amazing, empowering, and very worth it.

An interesting side note: The other night in a dream (bear with me here) I saw a snake like an enourmous boa, swimming down a river channel, he stopped by a plant, and started speaking in a "discovery channel narrator voice", and said "this is alecia anisopetala", He then proceede3d to give me a narraration of the preparation of the plant, all in this planet earth narrarater voice, which i dont remember clearly, and then i woke up. But the first part of the dream I remeber very specifically.
 
I have since spoken with someone else from the eboka forums who is working with black muricata vine, and he verified to me that it does indeed produce a deep red brew as well. So my "red" muricata and others "black" muricata both produce blood red brews similar in appearance to mimosa brews. This same person also told me that 50g of the muricata with admixture was on par with his iboga flood..so be careful..25g seems to be a solid dose of this vine.

Become, do you have a picture on hand of the alicia vine you have(not the pic from the site) to compare to the pics I took of the vine I have here? Snozz has some of this vine too so if you are reading this snozz could you please please get a picture of your alicia vine if possible and post it here so we can compare? It would make this so much easier.
 
okay so just to be clear..I am positive that what I have here is Banisteriopsis Muricata becasue of the radical difference in the color of the brew and it's strength that parallels what others working with muricata have described. There is just no way that Banisteriopsis caapi is going to look like that when brewed.

The black vine I have though, due to the fact that Kiwi was getting these things proply ID'd when I ordered I am not totally sure of yet..the color is much more like caapi but a darker sort of yellow..and also the fact that this vine has alot of oils in it when boiled down-much more oils that I have ever seen come out of any caapi vine..and also Snozz confirmed that with the Alicia vine he has from kiwi he noted this as well, tons of oils to deal with when he was trying to extract it..this is what I would like to gain clarity on and why I ask for people who ordered the Alicia vine from kiwi after he got all the ID's sorted out to please post some pics here to compare them to pictures I posted. Either way whatever vine I have here it is very very potent stuff and definatly not light ayahuasca.
 
jamie said:
Snozz has some of this vine too so if you are reading this snozz could you please please get a picture of your alicia vine if possible and post it here so we can compare? It would make this so much easier.
Click to expand...
I'll do it this evening when I get home. I will say this, the internal cross-section of the alicia looks nothing like either banisteriopsis species from what I've seen in person (cross-sections of caapi) or online (cross-sections of muricata). It's a very noticeable difference, imo.
 
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