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Positronic Ayahuasca brewing

Positronic Ayahuasca brewing

Table of contents:

Part 1: Filtering the brew
Part 2: Admixture: Hot liquid leaf tea vs xtals (quotes from Palmer)
Part 3: Contents of Visions
Part 4: Admixture Leaf (traditional) vs admixture bark (non-traditional)
Part 5: Thoughts on nausea & why brew several doses at once?
Part 6: The Dream

Just as Isaac Asimov's fictional positronic brain provides robots with a form of consciousness recognizable to humans in Star Trek, the Avengers, Doctor Who, Bicentennial Man, Ex Machina & The Machine, positronic Ayahuasca provides a form of Ayahuasca recognizable to the human intestines and stomach as devoid of nauseating irritating particles, ie zero nausea.

Part 1:

Sync (2000):
The shaman once more became the black jaguar and said "but that’s so easy, and the tea is so pure it probably won’t make me purge”
This is based on Sync's old filtering process from the year 2000, nausea free to the stomach and intestines brew. I learned it from Sync and have dreamed moderate & intensely strong brews over 55 times without purging, but if you need to you will. And no, there are no actives that get caught up in the black colored cotton sediment, all the actives are water soluble and end up in the final tea, none of the magic is left behind.

Rabbit said 5/29/16:
My rabbit thanks you for this immensely! He never seemed to be able to get that last bit of 'mud' out from the tea, and always suffered from intense nausea during the experience. Didn't think the residue had anything to do with it. The cotton ball in the funnel not only removed that, but also resulted in -zero- nausea for him!

Thanks so much!!
Examine where the leaf is from: are the chacruna leaves from Peru or South America? I've never had any luck with any South American psychotria in dreams, it's just too weak, you would be better off with Hawaiian psychotria if you can find it, never fails to impress for a 3 hour moderate to strong journey in dreams. 30 to 35 grams should be just fine, often much less than that. Best thing to do is brew say 240 grams of it and divide it into 8 x 30 gram doses, and depending on how strong or weak the 1st dose is, you can add or subtact from the other portions in the future when adding it to your caapi to get it just right. Psychotria is dreamed by the UDV, Santo Daime, and Shuar Indian, and Benny Shanon [author of 'Antipodes of the Mind']...very traditional and safe.

Always brew 1st (30 minutes is plenty on high heat if you 1st chop down the leaf into tiny pieces in a blender, no added acid or vit c of any kind is needed), then filter the leaf out of the liquid with (1) wire basket, (2) coffee cone made of fine wires, ending filtering with a (3) cotton ball stuffed in a funnel...then you reduce down the liquid at the end to around 24oz if you began with 240g of leaf. That way, each of the individual 30g doses constitutes 3oz total. (Each 1oz = 10g leaf).

Details on filtering: Filter the psychotria liquid thru a (1) wire strainer, then a (2) coffee cone basket made out of fine wires, and then thru a (3) cotton ball in a large clean funnel to make it sediment free which reduces or eliminates nausea to the intestines...have two of these funnels with a cotton ball stuffed in them sitting in a large tall jar sitting side by side so that you can pour off liquid from funnel into adjacent "funnel in a jar" to continue filtering once the 1st jar's cotton clogs up or slows down the flow too much, continue pouring off the funnel's contents back and forth changing out the cotton when or if it clogs.

With this method there is no throw up early in dreams/no intestinal nausea. This does not of course eliminate nausea in the brain which can result from dreaming too much leaf (too strong). This was learned from Sync and Meteor back in the day who used hand vacuum pumps to filter, but a cotton ball in a funnel is much quicker and easier and works just as well.

The same method works for filtering caapi. If you don't have the time or energy for caapi shredding and boiling, there are hundreds of different caapi extracts out there as well that can be dreamed in place. Caapi is more stable in it's alkaloid content which does not vary from morning to night like psychotria -- which can vary a bit depending on what time of the day it is picked (morning is best).
Part 2: Hot liquid leaf tea vs xtals (quotes from Palmer)

A reason the traditional hot brewed reduced down liquid leaf form in dreams is superior quality and strength wise as compared to xtals...perhaps due to dynamics of digestion & the gall bladder, liquid hot salt form, etc, we may never understand why:

From "Articulations, On the Utilisation and Meanings of Psychedelics" (2015) by Julian Palmer:
Modern day researchers, spearheaded by people such as myself, have realized that Jonathan Ott's calculations fall short of what most explorers need for a truly visionary experience. Even with a strong harmine/Banisteriopsis caapi dosage, 30-60mg of dmt is not sufficient to produce significant visionary effects in most people. So if fact, a dosage of 30-40mg of dmt is where tryptamine-like effects just begin to occur for most people, and 10-25mg dmt is not really noticeable above the gentle psychoactive effects of the harmine.

Each person is different and for some rare individuals, 30-40mg may be about as much dmt as they wish to take--but most people need at least 60-80mg for sufficient psychoactive effects and even at this dosage, you generally cannot expect a full-blown visionary experience, even when using a strong dose of 4 grams of syrian rue or 100 grams of strong caapi vine. Also, it should be pointed out that going beyond 4 grams of syrian rue (around 200-280mg of harmaline) or 100 grams of strong caapi vine (150--250mg of harmine) can increase the negative effects of these beta-carbolines--which include a feeling of heaviness, pressure in the head, inability to walk properly, more purging and perhaps more of an emphasis on bodily processes.

An oral dosage of 100mg of dmt is where the visionary qualities really begin to occur, for most people say when they are taking 3 grams of syrian rue or 80 grams of strong vine, and in context, 40-60 grams of strong vine is enough to fully mao inhibit most people.

I would say to neophyte explorers to tread carefully, and to slowly increase your dmt dosage in increments: perhaps starting at 60mg, going to 100mg, then 150mg. Some people are going to find 100mg of dmt to be exceedingly strong, and it will perhaps give them an experience they did not feel ready for.

It came to my attention after an embarrassing number of years, that taking freebase crystal DMT orally was not as potent, colourful, or clear as taking the equivalent amount of DMT in a tea that was brewed from the plant. For many years, I couldn't see how there could be a difference, but after doing some comparisons, it was obvious that the tea was much better, and the experiences resulting from the crystalline extract were inferior.

You could take twice or even three times as much DMT crystal as the equivalent in brew, and the experience from the crystal would never be as bright or full as that from the tea. Why could this be?

With extracted dmt, with chemicals used it would appear that some dimensions and qualities of the tryptamine molecules are compromised. Also, there is the factor of isolating the alkaloids from the rest of the plant. For example, there are very few people who say that extracted pure mescaline from the cactus is as potent of full bodied compared to when they take the tea made from the cactus flesh.

When making a tea from the whole plant, you are extracting the essence of the plant intelligence from its very flesh, not just isolating the alkaloids. In the alchemic method "Spagyrics" developed by Paracelsus, often considered the father of modern medicine, the ashes of the plant are commonly burnt and then blended back into an alcohol-extracted tincture. Friends who have experimented with this procedure report that a Spagyric tincture of Ayahuasca is much more potent than a normal tea prepared from the same amount of Ayahuasca vine.
Part 3: Contents of Visions

Ayahuasca journey phenemenology leads more to the below than what is often classified as hyperspace with just one side of the Ayahuasca brew.

Concluding Remarks from Benny Shanon on chapter "Contents of Visions" from the classic "Antipodes of the Mind, Charting the Phenomenology of the Ayahuasca Experience":
Having focused on details, let me now take a broader perspective and comment on the global picture that emerges from the foregoing survey. In their totality, the data we have surveyed define the semantic space of the visions seen with Ayahuasca. Embracing an alternative world-view, these data may also be regarded as defining what traditional users refer to as 'the world of Ayahuasca'. The semantic space, or world, in question comprises four main domains.

The first is the domain of nature. As noted throughout the foregoing discussion, animals especially serpents, felines, and birds are some of the most common items in the visions. Natural landscapes and scenes of forests and gardens are also very common. Also common are scenes of heavenly bodies and the far reaches of the cosmos.

The second domain is that of culture. Its prime manifestations are magnificent cities, the majesty of the royal, various products of artistic creation, religion, and magic. Usually, what are seen in the visions are not contents pertaining to the drinker's own socio-cultural milieu but rather ones associated with ancient civilizations. The majority of the constructions, objects, and artefacts that appear in the visions are either precious or wonderfully ornate or both. Further, most of the buildings seen in the visions are palaces or temples, and many of the human beings are either kings and queens or religious figures and persons with spiritual prominence.

Third is the domain of fantasy. It comprises enchanted and magical lands and it is populated by all sorts of creatures which are neither human beings nor naturalistic animals. As just indicated, the objects and scenes that appear in the visions are usually not mundane; often they are associated with mythology, fairy tales, and magic.

Fourth is the domain of the spiritual and the supernatural. Ayahuasca visions often reveal before one celestial and heavenly realms. In these, divine and semi divine beings often appear. The supernatural domain is usually associated with spiritual and metaphysical meanings. Related to this domain are the items and scenes pertaining to death.

In addition to the specific contents that are typical to them, Ayahuasca visions are also characterized by the extraordinary beauty that they manifest. Time and again, drinkers report that what they see in Ayahuasca visions surpasses in magnificence anything they have ever seen either in reality or in works of art. As further indicated above, objects and artefacts that appear in these visions are usually extremely rich and wonderfully ornate. Many of the landscapes are fantastic, and even when strictly speaking they are utterly naturalistic, the landscapes often emanate special qualities such as eternal presence, divine bounty, or pristine meaningfulness. And then, when the visions lead one upwards, to the realms of the planets and beyond, what one sees can be utterly stupefying. Not infrequently a point is reached when the marvel is such that one feels that what is presented before one is overwhelming and that its scrutiny is beyond the grasp of one's human cognitive faculties. In the literature, the word 'ineffable' is often used, marking the limitedness of language. At times, however, one also experiences the limitedness of one's mind and one's heart. Especially powerful visions may impress one as being totally beyond one's mental reach. On such occasions, one feels that what one sees is too wondrous to be grasped and one finds that one's mind simply cannot contain the marvels revealed to one. In extreme cases one may feel it is too painful to watch what the visions present it is all just too sublime, above and beyond the realm of the human.

Having said all this, let me also note that what may be seen in Ayahuasca visions is, in principle, unbounded essentially, there is no limit to it. The unboundedness pertains to both the types of content seen and to the tokens (that is, specific instantiations) of these types. With respect to the types, let me cite what, on two different occasions, I have been told by two very experienced drinkers. Checking whether they had seen the various items on my structured questionnaire, these informants answered in the affirmative for all items queried. Doing this, they smiled and said 'Well, you see, I have seen everything.' With respect to the tokens, the unboundedness manifests itself in people never seeing the same vision twice.

I say this both on the basis of my own experiences with Ayahuasca and the repeated observations of many other individuals; no one has ever reported a case that counters this generalization. The generalization holds even though there are many items that are especially common in Ayahuasca visions. In terms of their type, the items seen do exhibit various patterned regularities, but the tokens associated with these content types display unbounded variation. Thus, I have seen palaces and interior decorations thereof many, many times; yet, each vision of these was totally novel not even twice did I see the same building or decoration. Coupled with the fantastic nature of the contents of the visions and their extraordinary magnificence, I find this state of affairs to be truly remarkable.

In sum, all things imaginable and non-imaginable can be seen with Ayahuasca. One can see all the moments of one's life, all the people and places that one knows, Nature and the Cosmos in all their manifestations, human history and the different cultures that it has and has not produced, and scenes that lead one above the planet, to the far reaches of the cosmos, to the heavens. One can see the inner parts of one's body and the deeper strata of one's soul, one can encounter the infinite richness of myth and fantasy, meet fairies and dragons, angels and devils, taste the nectars of the Eternal, be washed by the bounty of the Supreme Good, witness the perennial light, encounter the Divine.
World famous author Graham Hancock, "Supernatural", pg 428:
My experience with smoked DMT was qualitatively different from the realms and beings ayahuasca introduced me to. For whereas the ayahuasca worlds seemed rich, luxurious, and abundant in the transformations of organic and supernatural life, DMT brought me to a world--or to some aspect of a world--that appeared from the outset to be highly artificial, constructed, inorganic, and in essence technological.

Graham Hancock, "Supernatural", pg 50
On another night the Ayahuasca visions begin very differently, After an initial bout of geometry and ladders I find myself inside a building--a huge structure a bit like the ancient Egyptian temple of Edfu at its entrance but opening out into something quite other. Fantastic architecture on an extraordinary scale. I have a computercam point of view and can fly around, zoom in or zoom out anywhere. I fly up into a vast dome, examine the patterns of nested curves that decorate its ceiling.

Graham Hancock, "Supernatural", pg 56
27 January: The visions begin with 20 minutes of geometry; then suddenly I find myself looking, at very close range, into a shockingly "alien" face, grey in colour, with a wide domed forehead and a narrow pointed chin--heart-shaped like the faces of the "light-beings" I'd encountered a few days earlier. It's eyes are multi-segmented like those of a fly. Frankly, it's the sort of image you'd expect to see adorning some far fetched X-files expose, and since aliens and ETs have never been interests of mine, I'm really puzzled to experience such a hallucination.

A short while later, out of a background of shifting geometrical patterns, a beautiful Egyptian goddess appears, I see only her head and headdress clearly. She's in full regalia. Then she vanishes as abruptly and mysteriously as she arrived.

Graham Hancock, "Supernatural", pg 64
The Udv session runs from 9pm until about 1:20am. I drink my brew at 9:20 pm and am having good visions by 9:45. The first hour after drinking --until 10:20--passes in what feels, subjectively, like an instant.

My visions are familiar and positive--perhaps more brightly lit, less "darkness visible" than before. What I remember clearly are large snakes (again!), light-coloured boas, huge, coiling around each other and around branches. I also get pyramid shapes built around a lattice or framework of some kind.

But the best part of the evening is when the same Egyptian goddess whom I saw in Peru reappears--this time on the left side of my visual field. At first she is concealed, in shadow. I look closely and see a slender female figure holding a dark blue mask in front of her face--one of those masks on a stick. Then she removes the mask and I see her face clearly in the instant before she vanishes once more. She glows the colour of molten gold.
Psychedelia page 61
A traditional saying among Ayahuasqueros is that the jungle vine brings powerful realistic visions, but that the chacruna brings light to these visions. According to the view of Western research, this is not the case; essentially the entire psycho-activity resides with the chacruna leaves DMT content.

Ayahuasca researcher Luis Eduardo Luna recently observed that when surveying tribal lore praising the jungle vine, he could find no traces of similar mythology around the two most common plant admixtures; psychotria viridis or diplpterys cabrerana, even though these DMT plants to a Westerner would appear much more important than the harmala alkaloids of the B. caapi liana.
From Gayle Highpine, "Unraveling the Mystery of the Origin of Ayahuasca":
In the western world, Ayahuasca acquired a new definition: It was now, by definition, the combination of Banisteriopsis caapi and a DMT-containing plant. Ayahuasca became, by definition, “orally active DMT.” The first anthropologist to adopt the new definition seems to have been Luis Eduardo Luna in 1984. Luna spent time with Terence McKenna, absorbing his perspective, before beginning his fieldwork. Since then, anthropologists have increasingly adopted this definition and filtered their observations through it. The preeminence of the Ayahuasca vine in the indigenous Amazonian world became the elephant in the living room of Ayahuasca studies, with a tacit agreement to pretend it doesn’t exist.

The leaves were Ayahuasca’s “helpers,” I was told, and their purpose was to “brighten and clarify” the visions. The vine is like a cave, and the leaf is like a torch you use to see what is inside the cave. The vine is like a book, and the leaf is like the candle you use to read the book. The vine is like a snowy television set, and the leaf helps to tune in the picture. There was a subtle attitude that the need for strong leaf was the sign of a beginner: An experienced ayahuasquero could see the visions even in low light

Ayahuasca vine is not visionary in the same way as DMT. The leaf helps illuminate the content, but the teachings are credited to the vine. Vine visions are “frequently associated with writing, to a code that is present in visions…or in the ‘books’ where the spirits keep the secrets of the forest.” The vine is The Teacher, The Healer, The Guide. The purpose of drinking Ayahuasca is to receive the message the vine imparts. This is why it is the vine, not the leaf, that is classified by the type of vision it gives. “For them the vine is, in truth, a living guide, a friend, a paternal authority”.

Listening to the Vine

While I was living in the village, someone began the process of shamanic apprenticeship. There was a series of ceremonies with brews of special strength for that purpose; brews with enormous quantities of vine. About two to three pounds of fresh vine per person was used (about 25 to 35 times the amount needed for MAOI inhibition). Those were powerful experiences indeed.

He would learn to navigate the strongest of brews with clear focus, and be undistracted by any amount of DMT fireworks.
This is what a typical traditional Ayahuasca vision looks like when you combine large amounts of the teaching Caapi with psychotria to light up and color the visions.

The Ayahuasca artist Pablo Amaringo, "The Shaman -- the Visions"
Super wisdom on the "brew". This lore is useful for the newbs and initiated, alike.

Hawaiian Psychotria is a bit of a "white whale", current year. Available at a premium...likely well worth it.

Treg, do you fine filter your caapi brew, similarly, or more raw dog?

Happed on some moclobemide of late, works so efficiently, has made troublesome RIMA preps anachronistic.

Hi Legarto Rey!

Yes, same method works for filtering caapi. If you don't have the time or energy for caapi shredding and boiling, there are hundreds of different extracts out there as well that can be dreamed in place.

My only recommendation would be to stick with what is traditional and dream caapi instead of man-made moclobemide, as the caapi is the source of endless teaching visions. I have dreamed large amounts of "only caapi" by itself and have been astounded for very long lengths of time of the teaching and healing visions it gives a person (ibogaine is similar and contains betacarbolines similar in structure)--very realistic dream like visions in monochrome green, the same can not be said for the man-made moclobemide. When you dream with moclobemide, you are essentially saying that all the power and visions of the Ayahuasca resides in the DMT made orally active only (a common construed Western view point).
Notice the difference between man-made moclobemide (very bottom) and the betacarbolines in ibogaine (top) and caapi (middle), very big difference, ibogaine and caapi alkaloids are vision causing beta-carbolines while moclobemide is it's own man-made entity. Betacarbolines are a class of indole alkaloids. LSD is also an indole based alkaloid (third down). I've also read that moclobemide often doesn't feel right with the light admixture, and can result in dark trips, just my 2 cents, these are coming from some trip reports found on the net. What was your trip report like in dreams Legarto? Curious.
Part 4: Admixture Leaf (traditional) vs admixture bark (non-traditional)

In conclusion: "differing view points" in the literature: Julian Palmer talks about his experiences with traditional vs. non-traditional Ayahuasca in his book "Articulations, On the Utilization and Meaning of Psychedelics", very down to earth book written by an Australian expert (brilliant writer as well) with over 20 years experience...in chapter 4 he covers "Ayahuasca". Benny Shanon covers his 130 plus experiences with "traditional" Caapi + psychotria Ayahuasca in his book "Antipodes of the Mind".

One last quick closing note: True Ayahuasca is caapi and psychotria and chaliponga only. Shaman's don't use barks but only traditional leaf as the additive for the "light" side. Barks have additional maoi trace ingredients that can clash with the rima's in caapi, causing possible weird physical symptoms and anxiety, stick with leaf only for true Ayahuasca. UDV and Santo Daime, Shuar Indian, Benny Shannon use only traditional psychotria only, and not even chaliponga which is more difficult and only recommended for very advanced Shamans. Psychotria is anxiety free, very safe and traditional. Be safe.

Current research reveals yuremamine (which is found in mimosa and acacia) is an mao inhibitor, and should not be combined therefore with caapi or even rue in dreams:

intramolecular hydrogen bonding of the tertiary aliphatic nitrogen of yuremamine protects it from metabolism and could allow it to act as an inhibitor of MAO, thus facilitating the oral activity of DMT in this single-plant formulation. Presently the putative pharmacology of purified yuremamine is unknown.
Full document on yuremamine:

The one time swim dreamed with bark, did not like it, stomach felt sick for 2 hours, the taste was terrible, anxiety, found it dark/unpleasant with underground type visions: devils & fangs so avoided after that one unpleasant time, it was way different from using psychotria--which always felt 100% safe & non-toxic, streamlined, nice and very pleasant, immense love, no anxiety either...visions with leaf were divine, heavenly.

More on various bark vs. leaf:
Chacruna and Chaliponga are similar in effects, usually bright and colorful. Both have a long history of indigenous use as admixtures to Ayahuasca. Chacruna is the kindest of them all. Chaliponga contains 5-MeO-DMT as well as N,N-DMT. Her visions are somewhat fuzzier, but the effects seem to last longer, and the afterglow is more pronounced. Jurema contains some other stuff not well known, which some call "jungle DMT". It is sinister and scary, much about devils and death. Her visions are of subterranean worlds- hell, caves, underground tunnels.
SWIM has more consistent results from Hawaiian Psychotria viridis. Hawaiian Psychotria viridis is less toxic compared to Mimosa. Mimosa has a lot of tannins and other junk you don’t want to ingest. Most people find Psychotria more pleasant and less toxic feeling that Mimosa.

For ayahuasca, P. viridis is much better. The trip is smoother, less toxic feeling. SWIM always prefers P. viridis over M. hostilis. The effects are cleaner, friendlier, and just plain better. There’s something about M. hostilis that makes it feel darker, more toxic.

A caapi only brew is sometimes recommended as your first experience. Harmine and tetrahydroharmine are the main active alkaloids in caapi, and when taken together without admixture plant, they alone can cause visions, but they are dark, daydream-like, and not as vivid as those had when an admixture plant source is added. Admixture greatly enhances the visual effects of harmine and harmaline, and also introduces “psychedelic” alterations to the thought processes. Admixture makes the experience much more intense, and can also make the experience more frightening for a first time user, especially if the dose is high enough.

My recommendation for a first time experience is to use a weak brew made using chacruna and caapi and nothing else. Don't use mimosa, and don't use chaliponga. Chacruna gives a much friendlier experience than either mimosa or chaliponga. Chaliponga is often recommended for experienced users only.

Seriously, don’t use mimosa. There is no such thing as Ayahuasca made with mimosa. The natives do not use mimosa for making Ayahuasca. There must be a good reason they don’t use it in Ayahuasca. Ayahuasca made with mimosa feels quite toxic to SWIM, and is probably not good for you. That’s probably why they don’t use it. When SWIM uses mimosa in ayahuasca he feels tense, gets lots of stomach problems, and feels some unusual toxic effects that are hard to describe. It just doesn’t feel healthy to SWIM. SWIM has decided to never use ayahuasca made with mimosa. He thinks possibly liver damage or something worse may be the result of using mimosa in ayahuasca too often. There are no long term studies of users of mimosa based ayahuasca around to show that it’s safe. There are such studies for ayahuasca made with chacruna and chaliponga showing that long term use is safe.

I think once you've had enough experience with ayahuasca made with chacruna and ayahuasca made with mimosa, you'll notice just how much more toxic a mimosa based ayahuasca feels, and you’re likely going to stop using it and switch to brews made with chacruna.

I think listening to the body is important. Mimosa in Ayahuasca doesn't feel healthy.

As for the natives who use mimosa, they don't use it with any MAOI, and their habit has not been extensively studied.

Most people use mimosa because it's cheaper, and when they are given real ayahuasca made with chacruna, most of them make the switch to it because it feels much healthier. That’s been SWIM’s experience with the people he knows.

Mimosa is cheap. People use it because it's cheap. Same with rue. People use rue because it’s cheap.

There are many shamans who have the internet now and know about how cheap mimosa is and have tried it. So your reasoning behind why they do not use mimosa in ayahuasca only applies to shamans living in the jungle. Other shamans who know about mimosa still do not use it in ayahuasca because their followers in general prefer ayahuasca made with chacruna. It feels better for the body and has a long history of safe use.

I’m willing to bet that long term use of ayahuasca made with mimosa will cause liver damage or some other health problems. It feels that toxic to SWIM.
I prefer Chacruna by far to Mimosa which consistently produces a rougher more confusing experience. Let's just say this I would rather be deep in and fully immersed ( complete with throbbing machine/wave vibration noise...you know the one) in a wall of visions from Chacruna any day than M hostilis.

The content of my experiences from Mimosa has been largely negative and much more confusing/disorienting. First of all I hate to brew it because it's got too much tannins and it's nasty to digest. Then Mimosa seems to be this wily, semi-malevolent character that is happy to kick your ass in an overt way. I feel like drinking brews with mimosa induce a savage and jubilant eating of my psyche with this purple, green, red and golden parade to accompany.

The first difference I notice to Chacruna, I feel more disoriented and fearful from my mimosa brews and the anxiety level is high. I have seen other people react even more extremely negatively than myself to mimosa and rue preparations; a girl screaming vocalizations that sound inhuman, a guy having involuntary and violent spasms that resemble breakdancing of some sort, a grown man in his 30s unhinged so bad he was afraid to be in the dark alone in the 3 weeks after his experience. I have seen enough repeated negative reactions dealing with Mimosa and companion plants to not want to ever work with it again in my brews or recommend it to anyone. I don't know if it's the companion alkaloids or the high amount of tannins ect but something about that stuff isn't nice.

Also for me it has nothing to do with high vs low DMT content effecting the quality of the experience. I have Hawaiian Chacruna of legendary potency that works at roughly the same gram amounts as m. hostilis bark. I just don't like that Jurema in my Ayahuasca. Call it personal preference.
I wouldn't mix acacia with ayahuasca vine (caapi) It's not a good idea in my experience and from seeing others especially with trouble breathing, this is why actually just mix aya vine and the chacruna or chali.
Atheio (4 years ago):
Be careful with acacia confusa, it has another alkaloid called NMT. Which MHRB does not have, and AFAIK it's been connected to bad experiences.
Definitely go with the chacruna (psychotria viridis).

There are a few reasons that mimosa hostilis is not ideal for a newcomer to ayahuasca. Firstly, p. viridis is essentially nontoxic, whereas m. hostilis has toxins that increase the likelihood of overdose, or at least a highly unpleasant experience (I have been there, due to careless brewing, and yes it is *horrible*). Secondly, m. hostilis is known as having a very harsh and unforgiving "spirit", whereas chacruna is generally considered to have more of a gentle and maternal spirit. Thirdly, chacruna has a very long history of traditional use in ayahuasca brews, and has a very good safety track record, whereas we are currently unsure of potential long-term health ramifications of m. hostilis as an aya admixture.
There are all sorts of alkaloids and various other compounds in the plants. One alkaloid that I know has been isolated in mimosa hostilis is yuremamine. There is not much yet known about yuremamine, it represents an entirely new family of indole derivatives (tryptophan, the precursor of serotonin is an indole as well). Yuremamine also contains DMT within its molecular structure. It has been suggested that perhaps one of yuremamine's properties might be that it acts as an MAOI or a prodrug, because mimosa has been found to be orally active while DMT on its own is not.
Becometheother (9/25/2016):
Some of the exact same stuff I just said above is 100 percent echoed here, which I think adds some weight to what I said. Right down to the visions of darkness and hell! And I have never read this thread before..

Is is a pretty well known generality within the aya community that aya is lighter and more gentle on the body and mind then rue.

Rue mimosa for me is a fiery experience that also seems very masculine. Visions of fire and even the underworld come into being. Intense primordial energies are encountered. Feelings of actually being poisoned come up. The visions for me lead to words the darker. I met a spirit that appeared in the dress of a witch doctor and stared face to face with me but his eyes were only empty sockets. He followed me around the rest of the experience.

Ayahuasca is much lighter and airy, much more the upper than the lower world. More feminine. For example on traditional vine and leaf aya, I saw a vision of a diverse group of humans holding hands in a giant circle dancing together to the rhythm of a very nice song that I can actually remember the melody of. Then I experienced the pure love of the universe, nothing but pure love, and was told I am always loved and never to give into fear cause I have love.

I had a journey to a sub aquatic realm where my friend appeared to be some kind of octopus and I had grippy water visuals and sounds all night.

Although themes and content may change, that much is consistent aya is compared to the air the water female light. Mimosa rue, compared to heavy earth fire masculine. Also from a less spiritual and more practical standpoint rue mimosa IS harsher on the body by a long shot.

It may sound like I am saying aya is better, I am not, I actually have the most experience with rue and mimosa and often gravitate tword fire and darkness Smile

I'm not inferring there is subtle differences I'm outright saying the differences are huge. And not just related to chemistry, I'm talking about the whole package.

How many times have you used aya and how many times with acacia rue? I think it's relevant if you don't mind answering.

Also I'm really curious on others perspective, if not I know I could dig up some old mimosa vs aya threads.
All is in good spirit though, in the end we are more similar then different and at least we have in common that we are passionate about these substances and mysticism.
I had a horrible experience with mimosahuasca (ayahuasca vine + mimosa hostilis) brew ten days ago.

As soon as it kicked in I just kept hearing voices and felt literally like my body was made of rubber it was such a sickly feeling and my heart was gripped in anxiety and fear and I felt myself descending downwards the whole time while entities were mocking me and sneering at me. And it lasted for about 5 hours. I've been having psychic and mental difficulties since then because of it.

I feel really sad, because I was sure that ayahuasca and mimosa would become a beneficial spiritual ally for me. But elsewhere on this forum I read that mimosa is completely unloving and aggressive and indifferent to humans, and that it is not compatible with the ayahuasca path. If that is the case, then maybe I could try again in like a month but with chagraponga instead of mimosa. I really wanted Ayahuasca to become a spiritual guide to me, so that I can transcend my fears and sickness and become more spiritually enlightened.

Maybe Ayahuasca vine with chagraponga will be a totally different experience. I am going to try that out eventually and hopefully it will be a better experience. My previous experience with vine and mimosa just sent me spiraling downwards into a realm of confusion and fear; I did not receive any healing from it, nor did I learn anything. It just seems like a big garbled mess, like a 5-hour long computer error.thanks for reading.
medchemist (April 25, 2011)
from Ayahuasca.com "what are Ayahuasca analogues" comments after the main paper:
To this discussion I will add a cautionary word of advice regarding P. harmala and Mimosa hostilis admixtures. I used a tea prepared from exactly 3.0g Syrian Rue seeds and 3.0 – 6.0g jeruma on a fairly regular basis some 5 years ago. My friend also participated in these experiences with me. The tea was prepared by three consecutive extractions of the two plant materials mixed together in the ratio stated. The solvent was 1/4 lemon juice water, and the temperature was just at the point of a light boil for all three extractions. Plant material was removed by filtration through a white cotton t-shirt in every case. The experiences from this teas decoction are unequaled by anything I have ever known in my life.

Unfortunately, following about a half a year of using this tea about twice per month on average, I developed drug-induced hepatitis, bloody urine, and grey stools. A visit to the doctor revealed that my liver AST and ALT levels were through the roof. My firend also had this same result. After cessation of tea consumption, we both returned to normal health. I cannot say whether it was the jerume, the rue, or both plants that caused this, and there were no other drugs in the equation in either my case or my friend’s case. I am no a pharmaceutical scientist, and I cannot find any systematic studies that have been done on the various admixtures of ayahuasca that prove or discount liver/kidney toxicity.

However, i would urge anyone who is thinking about traveling the sweet road of ayahuasca visions to take care to avoid jeruma and syrian rue. Again, I do not know that the vine and chacruna are any easier on the liver, but I can say for certain that in two different cases, frequent use of rue and jeruma is a road to hepatotoxicity. I would also think that those who are already hepatocompromised should avoid rue and jeruma at all costs. I dislike that this is the case, because I loved the stuff, but I think there needs to be strong scientific evidence that ayahuasca is not systemically toxic.

Unfortunately, such evidence is lacking at this writing. Try the vine and chacruna if you must, but be careful even then, and make sure you get check ups and bloodwork from your doctor to ensure that your liver and kidneys are not being compromised. For my part, I regard either rue or jeruma as unacceptably toxic. Tread with caution folks, and stay free.
Part 5: Thoughts on nausea & why brew several doses at once?

I liked this method of filtering as it eliminated nausea in the stomach and intestines, I feel nausea detracts from the overall experience. But if you need to purge, you surely will. Some amount of possible low-grade dizziness or very light heavyness is unavoidable during the first hour after the caapi begins to work. Eating a tiny slice of fattening cream cheese after the 1st one to 1.5 hour will help the actives from the leaf get kicked out of the gall bladder should they "get stuck" and kick the journey into full effect.

Why brew lots of leaf at once instead of just one dose?

In dreams I preferred this method as in the past I had too many surprises brewing just one dose at a time. I prefer a level 3 journey, but a few times I have ended up in +4 territory from the same amount of leaf that used to give me a +3 journey. 15g of leaf at very rare times was equivalent to 30g of leaf (around 1 time out of 10 journeys, as I dreamed 5 of these high dose surprises in 55 trips). Brewing more doses at once spreads the strength more evenly among the filtered and reduced down liquid.

Even the leaf from the same batch is a bit variable as even the time of day it was picked will influence the alkaloid level a bit. By brewing several doses at once, you can add or subtract from the future doses when adding it to the caapi based on how your first journey went, to get the strength level dialed in better.

In the +4 journeys, I was unable to move from my place and all I could do to slow down the CEV visuals was to keep my eyes closed and meditate into a motionless happy place in order to find some sense of comfort and peace, even moving an inch would trigger hundreds of new visuals, which was a bit overwhelming.

The +3 journeys in dreams were much different in that I was able to move around for the most part, and enjoy the journey with plenty of CEV visions and OEV's for 1.5 hour of very strong effects without being cast too far followed by 1.5 more hour of a strength that was easier to handle. The visions surpass in magnificence anything I have ever seen in reality or in works of art, just mind boggling. Dreaming Ayahuasca is like handling a high speed sports car, with time and practice it becomes easier.

With open eyes, all spiritual things such as nature, art, female form, beauty, joy, took on significant meaning with infinite beauty. Extraordinary beauty is manifested with open eyes and with the visions one sees with closed eyes. Impossible neon-like colors were seen that don't exist on this Earth.

The existence of a higher spiritual plane is recognized to which insight can and must be gained, yet it does not reject the mundane reality as inferior or empty. This joyous embracement of the world of form leads to words like infinite pleasure, beauty and joy. This loving reappraisal of the worldly forms leads the way to higher divine planes.

The hawaiian psychotria leaf dreamed of was extraordinary, 35 grams at times dreamed was +4 territory and hope to never venture there again if at all possible. Even though I talk about the leaf alot, the real journey and healing come from the caapi, which is also the source of all the visions. Higher doses of caapi and even 2nd doses really take one to incredible scenery and teaching lasting many hours.

Will never forget the scenes of naked beautiful women twirling in front of rotating marble pillars, beautifully decorated elephants from India, waterfalls in remote places, distant islands, zooming in over Atlantis to view the entire city, a beautiful girl's face with freckles, remarkable gardens, etc. all due to large amounts of caapi, with the leaf serving to color and light up the visions.

In one experience with closed eyes saw a beautiful garden trellis with flowers, a ship on the ocean, a woman searching for a lost ring in the medieval period, flying like a bird over what looked like Los Angeles for several minutes as I could see all the swimming pools below, traveling thru a blue spinning worm hole being dropped off on a distant island to view the wooden tiki artwork up close (a female islander then waved her hand to show me these tikis marked the boundaries of their sacred places), a chalkboard full of mathematical equations and scientific ideas, many visions too numerous to go into detail.
Part 6: The Dream

Keep in mind the quotes from Palmer in part (2) above, as the brew form is so much more potent, brighter, fuller, and complex (all encompassing) than the alternative can be.

Here is what was dreamed in dreams:

1. 240g of hawaiian psychotria was blended in a blender to small pieces (not to dust, but just enough to compact it into tiny pieces). The leaf was three years old and had been stored in a ziplock bag, it still had not lost any potency whatsoever over the years.

2. It was added into a plain metal pot with 128oz water as you want to use 16oz water per each 30g of leaf, (16oz x eight 30g doses = 128oz water).

3. Boil it on medium-high boil for 45 minutes.

4. Filter the liquid and leaf through a spaghetti strainer into a container

5. Take the container of liquid and filter it through a coffee cone made of fine wires that sits atop another container around 4 to 5" in diameter.

6. Then filter the liquid through a cotton ball sitting inside a wide plastic funnel. Have two of these funnels with a cotton ball stuffed in them sitting side by side, when the cotton clogs, simply pour off the remaining liquid from the 1st funnel into the 2nd funnel adjacent to it to continue the filtering, switching out the cotton balls when they clog. Throw the used cotton balls away. You will need about a dozen cotton balls for this process, but it only takes about 10 minutes total to filter thru the cotton balls. It is well worth it.

Had to change out the cotton ball in each funnel around 5 times total in order to filter all of the approx remaining 2L (2 liters) of liquid from the above beginning leaf boil.

7. Now the psychotria leaf brew is extremely pure (sediment free).

8. The liquid was then poured into a pot and reduced down to 24oz total, so that each 3oz of liquid = 30g of leaf.

9. 3oz of the hot liquid was poured into a measuring cup and caapi extract was added to the liquid and stirred. The rest of the leaf liquid above (21 oz left was put away).

The dream:

The 3oz of leaf liquid with caapi dreamed at the same time resulted in a +3 journey with three hours of closed eye visuals. With closed eyes saw hours of brightly colored fantastic visions and visuals: incredibly beautiful and neon colored with patterns of complexity far beyond the imagination. The visions surpass anything ever seen in reality or works of art. Animated faces and female human figures were seen of immense beauty in cartoon colors with detail so far beyond anything an artist could paint. With open eyes, world was infinitely beautiful, with a significance that was utterly stupefying. Intensely sacred experience.

1/2 hour into the journey, watched the movie "Letters from Juliet" with the beautiful Amanda Seyfried...the movie had hours of scenery filmed in Italy of the stone buildings, winding stone walkways, houses overlooking the mountains, and the actress...the beauty of the scenery was mind-blowing, and almost too incredible to look at...it was sublime, of such excellence, grandeur, or beauty that it inspired immense admiration and awe. During periods of watching the movie, I would close my eyes and continue the watching of flowing images & visions of breath-taking beauty.

The experience was quite strong, and next time would dream less of the brew (like 2.5oz worth in combination with the caapi) in order to experience a dream equivalent to 25g of the leaf.

Ayahuasca Stimulates the Birth of New Brain Cells:


The alkaloids of Banisteriopsis caapi, the plant source of the Amazonian hallucinogen Ayahuasca, stimulate adult neurogenesis in vitro, 2017:


Ayahuasca with caapi is also an entheogen you can dream and feel even better the next day after you take it, often for several days, as the mood lift from the caapi is long-lasting, Terence Mckenna talked about this in the book "Archaic Revival". I agree with his statement as well. You feel better than if you had not taking anything at all.

Another benefit is that Ayahuasca (caapi + hawaiian psychotria in dreams) is not overly-stimulating, so if dreamed at 4pm, can still get to bed by 11pm to midnight, get plenty of sleep, and even work out the next day, due to no fatigue. Some of my best workouts have been the next day. Workout in a gym and on non-workout days, go running in the park for 30 minutes for cardio.

The refreshed feeling the next day is like a cleansing of the brain, a reset of the serotonin system.

Entheogens like Ayahuasca have been show in studies to activate the right side of the brain--the part involved with creativity, euphoria, visualization, empathy. They seriously light up that side of the brain like a neon light.

The world is moving in the direction of the Left Brain: technology and science. What the world needs is to move in the direction of Right Brain development: empathy, spirituality, connectedness. Compounds like Caapi could be said to improve emotional intelligence. Is this caapi a smart-nutrient for the right side of the brain? you be the judge. I certainly think it is.
Intense report tregar :love:

My trials with 15gr hawaian were dull, no wonder I see that now, I had to use much more. Then I started to fell in love with Diplopterys Cabrerana (chagropanga having a solid & consisting quality) and lost track of using the lesser consistent PV.
I missed out on the best performance of Psychotria Viridis so far I'm afraid. Maybe I should catch up :twisted:
Jees said:
Intense report tregar

My trials with 15gr hawaian were dull, no wonder I see that now, I had to use much more. Then I started to fell in love with Diplopterys Cabrerana (chagropanga having a solid & consisting quality) and lost track of using the lesser consistent PV.
I missed out on the best performance of Psychotria Viridis so far I'm afraid. Maybe I should catch up Twisted
Thanks Jees. Thanks so much for filling us in on your past admixture leaf experiences.:love: 45 minutes in, when I felt the caapi working clearly, I felt about 5 minutes of strong activity, and then it died down suddenly, I then ate a slice of cream cheese, but it did not work to kick the leaf actives out, then 20 minutes later I ate a small slice of left over pizza I had warmed out, and then I knew I was in for a treat.

A few minutes after eating the 2 bites of pizza, I felt the tryptamine high frequency buzz take over my body, the vibration was strong, and the journey kicked in full effect, for the next 3 hours, I had to hold on and sit in one spot as it was quite strong but very enjoyable, like handling a high speed sports car. As I had not dreamed any Ayahuasca in several months, the journey gave most fantastic flowing animated visions, first starting with rotating geometrics and patterns of incredible complexity which progressed to realistic animated images of faces and beautiful females in the most impressive out of this world colors and detail that is impossible to describe.

As I had eaten a whole medium pizza from Urban Bricks about 5 hours earlier, the actives got caught up a bit in the reminants of food in the stomach, and I would trip strongly for an hour straight, then feel sober for a few minutes, then another wave or punch of actives would get kicked out of the gall bladder and take me soaring again for another hour, then back down for a few minutes, then back up again, this going on for several hours. I had no idea the 30g of leaf would be this strong, it was up there. The intricate patterning, coloring, texture and incredible detail of the slick animated images was and still is indescribable.
Caapi has a long history as a master plant teacher. A current new good book is "The Year of Drinking Magic, Twelve Ceremonies with the Vine of Souls" by Guy Crittenden, excellent reading.

I like what Guy Crittenden said in his book "The Year of Drinking Magic, 12 ceremonies with Vine of Souls" (several pages in):
Our being cut off from this altered state benefits corporations, which need obedient workers toiling inside what Timothy Leary called air-conditioned ant-hills. They prefer their staff and customers to not access subversive truths.
Bill Hicks:
If you want to understand a society, take a good look at the drugs it uses. And what can this tell you about American culture? Well, look at the drugs we use. Except for pharmaceutical poison, there are essentially only two drugs that Western civilization tolerates: Caffeine from Monday to Friday to energize you enough to make you a productive member of society, and alcohol from Friday to Monday to keep you too stupid to figure out the prison that you are living in.
Thank you for this very thorough breakdown. I still prefer aya to FB DMT although the time commitment is much longer. Next time I voyage I will certainly be trying this method. Thanks! :thumb_up:
Thanks Lowtones!

Yet another comment & more praise for additional brew filtering:

Guy Crittenden said in his book "The Year of Drinking Magic, 12 ceremonies with Vine of Souls", page 124:
And praise! I didn't feel any nausea with this medicine! People were purging around me, but I had no seasick feeling. No doubt my graduation into a nausea-free experience was aided by the fact that Jim had used both a cloth strainer and then cheese cloth to filter the brew. This removed small particles that, Jim explained later, upset the stomach. The brew was much more liquid or watery than others I'd tried.

I noted in my journal the next day that this is something other people who cook Ayahuasca should consider. Innovation is possible with the chemistry of Ayahuasca medicine and there's no reason for it to have an unnecessarily burdensome texture. Can we not innovate in this area, while respecting past tradition? I think so.
A cotton ball in a funnel works just as well if not even more effective and easier/faster than cheesecloth for removing all the very fine particles of "irritating to the stomach and intestines sediment", creating a very "pure brew", this innovation I have used over 55 times. The cotton ball is one of the nature's best creations.
A few valuable studies:

1) Study: Mindfulness (being in the moment) is boosted:

The research found that ayahuasca raised mindfulness abilities to levels equal to or even greater than those of people who have been practising meditation for around seven years:

2) Neurogenesis studies:

Take a look at the photos showing the development of new brain cells which were stimulated by caapi:

I've never shared this with anyone, but I owe Ayahuasca to getting me out of a 10 year addiction to pills and helped me get over a death. Nothing else had helped me, not antidepressants, not therapy. All had failed me. Only mother Ayahuasca could save me, owe it all to her. That's why I'm so passionate about her healing powers.
It's a sledge hammer of a perception shift. You must have done it the right way tregar, my utter respect, not all succeed this well even with aya.
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