Post-Hyperspace

[EternalReturn]

I can almost still taste that strange strange vapor on my tongue.

Yesterday was my first blast-off. It was intense, but much less than today's. Yesterday everything around me turned to waves and then Mayan hieroglyphics, but not for long. I embarked with a ton of fear, but once I got there I was surprised at how lucid I was. I felt that I was god and controlled that version of hyperspace, which was really a strange intersection of various dimensions. I felt that for maybe no more than a second before I began to feel small and powerless and ultimately just a participant. Each time I sucked the light bulb it felt as if these "entities" were breathing life into me.

Today was very much the same, except I made sure I got a "breakthrough" level hit. It was much more intense. The hieroglyphs became the substance behind everything physical, including my own body. My skin felt as if it were melting, and I was afraid that I had burned my tongue, which felt as if were peeling off (my tongue is fine, no damage done). I tried to distinguish the faces (I have studied Mayan art and Anthropology for about 6 years academically as well as independently) but they would kind of become obscure the more I tried to make them out. They also kind of crawled all over the place. This is probably why the faces appeared to me through the hieroglyphs - I was raised Catholic but was always an atheist until I encountered some of the Aztec poetry and Mayan works, such as the Popul Vuh and gained a sense of spirituality, which actually helped re-contextualize some of the Judeo-Christian spirituality.

Yesterday, I would get the feeling that I wasn't supposed to be there, which would be immediately followed by an assurance that everything was okay. Today, I went in arrogant as Colombus, and got smacked a bit harder than expected. In hyperspace the closed eye visuals were kind of like spinning bumpers with flashing lights from a type of cosmic pinball machine. Open eyes visuals were mainly the Mayan backdrop, but with green and white neon lights indicating perhaps some other dimension happening simultaneously. From my perspective I felt an observer of a myriad of worlds all happening at once. There was no simple dialect occurring between myself and the universe - it was much more chaotic than that. There was no death (something I experienced on Psilo and LSD) but just existing in a state of "otherness". There was no division between a Platonian realm of forms and ideas, there was rather just a bunch of intersections all occurring in layers, parallel to one another. What really kept me grounded was the fact that I loved MY world the best - I was not willing to part with it 100 percent like I have done with other psychedelics. My world consists of MY archetypes, my friends, my loved ones, my passions, my knowledge; my world consists of my ego, which felt as if it were an essential part of what connects my "self"/"spirit"/ "subconscious" to the sensory world. It's not worth giving up to continuously live immersed in some metaphysical world of chaos. For me, the experience was about keeping a segment of myself existent in ALL realities; value is to be found in quantity in my case, while not sacrificing the quality of each experience. Note: That is not to say

I could do better to articulate this in the future, but I had to write something down to attain an immediate transcription of my experience before the emotional surge in me dies down and memory loses its edge.

But Wow, some intense hypershit.

Also, I went outside to smoke a cigarette on the roof while the experience was starting to leave me and I saw an ironic giant poster of Blue Man Group, which made me laugh as it resembled a sort of popular representation of "others".

Second note: I have been having dreams about the set I chose to experiment where I was floating/gliding across the ground, and another where I encountered some psychedelic 2- dimensional world. Both dreams kind of happened while I was immersed in that "otherness".

 

[EternalReturn]

Just got back from the third trial, and most likely my last for a while.

This stuff is powerful. Each time seems to go deeper into that world which, to the human mind, feels like chaos, but to whatever entity has opened up to me is of some highly elaborate order. This experience seemed to take off where my last one left off, and got there seemingly in the blink of an eye. All three times it was not at all what I expected, although there was definitely a continuity. The Mayan inscriptions just flashed this time before I was looking through my closed eyes into that "otherness". Whatever it was made me feel that, yes this is amazing and confusing as hell, but it was not "my" world. It seemed to let me know that I could go deeper, but it would remain just as puzzling regardless of how deep I went into it. My place is here, in this spatio temporal reality, even though this plane of existence is just the shadow of a greater backdrop.

While still in the experience, but down from the peak, I went out to watch traffic again and smoked a cigarette. The city, which on other psychedelics would normally look lively and textured, looked like a drab cardboard reality. I didn't feel beautiful within, which other psych's typically make me feel, but felt some sort of transcendental flickering going on in my mind that connected me to whatever the hell I just witnessed.

I don't take offense to nobody replying to my posts, but would really appreciate it if someone who has matched some of my own experiences would give their take on it.

 

[Awokenatlast]

Hello there,

My first experience was so very powerful that it will be my last. I find no reason to return there until the time of my death. (There is a reason humans are not supposed to peek behind the curtain)

The greatest sadness I have ever felt was when my soul realized I would never be here, having this experience again. Ofcourse I couldn't remember exactly what experience I was mourning for I didn't remember I was human, what is a human -anyway? All I knew was I had soomething WONDERFUL and it was gone

Strange how we take for granted everything in this realm. I too shudder at the thought of being stuck in that stage of "all knowing"
Do you now understand the saying that ignorance is bliss?

Do I regret it at all ?? Nooooooo it's was the most beautiful, scary, wonderful experience In the history of experiences! But having gone down that rabbit hole so deep do you too find it difficult to go back to small talk with friends and family? Do you see people walking around, aimless, hopeless with no purpose and cry?? I do... I can't sleep for everytime I close my eyes I leave my body and go drifting thru that other dimension.

I am curious to know if you have any of these feelings or thoughts? This nexus is strange, it seems like a big high school click I. That no one responds to us new travelers who are just trying to reach out to the community. Are we not all connected?

I see you- may the light shine on you and upon you

 

[EternalReturn]

For me, my experiences with the spice have been twofold. On the one hand, yes, it was extremely powerful and brought me to a bizarre state. On the other, I experienced no real shock or feeling of awakening. Years back when I first tried LSD, my conception of reality was obliterated, and it took me a while to gradually get "back". I did so quietly and never consulted with therapists or any real outside "help". I had a very high dose for a first-timer, and can't think of a worse setting to take it in. I took it with a friend and we both went drinking with some acquaintances who we didn't tell we were tripping. Once it kicked in, I just took off to go through the experience alone. My mind was sent into another world, but that terrifying feeling went on for a few hours until I got past the peak of the experience. After that "shattering" I enjoyed the rest of the experience and what it did to my world-view.

With the spice, I expected to be terrified as I was then. Fortunately, I wasn't. Maybe you're looking at it the wrong way. Couldn't it have been that your outlook on what it is to be human was subverted? Perhaps what you felt go was the conventional notion that "Man" is the center of the universe. If you were educated in the West, this is most likely the notion that was embedded in you through the learning structure. My experience with LSD brought me to the same state of dissolution where I couldn't even conceive of what I was. Very scary terrain for the inexperienced, but once I learned to integrate the experience with my waking reality it vaguely transformed my own relative paradigm. I began to find more fulfillment in art than I had previously, and the philosophies I've always just passively read began to turn into something like a game. I would deconstruct the authors' "Truths", but rather than dismissing them as nonsense, I was able to use them to strengthen my own conception of what is "real" and "true" (something that I see as a lifelong process). I never overindulged in the use of entheogens and eventually, through my own writing and artwork, I began to feel that same ecstatic madness that the substances made me feel.

If I were you, I would focus on what it is that is so important to you in this realm and examine it closely. Do you write? paint? draw? make music? Is there an academic field that has always stood out to you more than the others? For myself, I looked into these things and really deconstructed why it was that I had been drawn to them. I feel that the entheogens have given me the reassurance that these passions are not only worth pursuing, but are essential to my quest toward existential fulfillment (a deep void that I don't think is meant to be filled in this lifetime - and for the better). Entheogens are the shortcuts to where these paths lead (that is my opinion, not some objective Truth). Experimenting with them in moderation, through my experience, has helped me to break though the certain mental blocks that often arise when a person pursues these "passions". Each time I create something, I'm brought back to that euphoric feeling that the entheogens showed me in their own mystical "realms". So sure, ignorance is bliss. Feeling fulfilled with little day-to-day things is great for people who can live with that mediocrity. To me, that state of all knowing is an illusion. Maybe a better concept would be "all seeing". Entheogens have shown me things that go far beyond my ability to reason. It would feel like watching an absurdist play with incoherent dialogue. My mind would go through loops of thought where I would meditate on a subject, approach the "truth" of it, then, before I could understand it I would plunge into chaotic thought patterns. It felt like I split an atom in my mind that unleashed a flood of synapses between my neurons. The first time I was horrified, but if you learn to just ride it it can become a lot more euphoric.

I've always found it difficult to genuinely relate to my peers/family members. I was that kid in school who the teacher used to attack verbally and make an example out of. E.g. in third grade my desk was in the corner of the room behind the teachers, facing away from the rest of the students. I've always felt that marginalization from the herd, so I've been dealing with those things emotionally for most of my life. Sometimes I feel pity for them, sometimes I envy them, sometimes I get a sense of sadistic amusement from them, but overall I'm content with the few people I stay in touch with who make me feel less alien. In the end, I think that as a species our condition is to be aimless and without purpose. We can create things that have relative meaning to ourselves and maybe resonate with the experiences of others to starve off boredom and loneliness. Some people want to feel immortal and convince themselves that they have knowledge of life after death, others value experience over everything and everybody (I'm thinking of exploitative capitalism here), but in the end none of us "know" anything other than the fact that we're in this reality collectively and have no idea what happens next, or even where we're "supposed" to go as a collective. For some people, it's finally establishing "justice" in the world, for others it's understanding the physical world better; understanding the metaphysical world better; attaining spiritual enlightenment; etc... For me, I think that Camus nailed it when he wrote, "There is only one really serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Everything else is secondary" (Maybe not the exact quote, but that's basically it). He rejected suicide both physically and intellectually - which he considered a rejection of "absurd" reality and reasoning and escaping into illusions and religion. Find a way to embrace life passionately to make it worth living. For me, that's art and being consciously present with the people I love. I'd like to say "to hell with the rest of the herd", but we're all tied into the same objective reality whether we like it or not. Nietzche had a chapter in Zarathustra on lamenting having to drink water from the same disgusting well as the "rabble".

As for the Nexus...there are posts on everything from encountering God, to demons, to elves. It's all there, and has all been said/asked before. Not only does it save time, energy, and bandwidth, it saves paranoid entheogen users from having to worry about Big Brother.

I hope that contextualization of the experience helps anyone who happens to stumble across this post.

 

[EternalReturn]

I just saw it approximately 15 minutes ago. It was jumping all around me communicating something like "see me now motha******". All I could communicate was "yeah yeah...just chill before you bug me the **** out". It was like some long running joke between the two of us. I thing I forgot to breathe for a bit. I was in what looked like a lab of some sort, and slowle faded back to the room I posted up in.

my mind is completely blown. At first I wondered if it was some kind of demon, but really whatever it was was beyond my comprehension. It was male-like and kind of informed me that he was whatever I made him out to be. There were others around but I could only focus on the one jumping in my face.

this time I held it in longer and took it in a darker setting.

on Lsd I felt a similar presence, but seeing is a whole other level in itself.

just wow...no more words haha

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

Hello there,

My first experience was so very powerful that it will be my last. I find no reason to return there until the time of my death. (There is a reason humans are not supposed to peek behind the curtain)

The greatest sadness I have ever felt was when my soul realized I would never be here, having this experience again. Ofcourse I couldn't remember exactly what experience I was mourning for I didn't remember I was human, what is a human -anyway? All I knew was I had soomething WONDERFUL and it was gone

Strange how we take for granted everything in this realm. I too shudder at the thought of being stuck in that stage of "all knowing"
Do you now understand the saying that ignorance is bliss?

Do I regret it at all ?? Nooooooo it's was the most beautiful, scary, wonderful experience In the history of experiences! But having gone down that rabbit hole so deep do you too find it difficult to go back to small talk with friends and family? Do you see people walking around, aimless, hopeless with no purpose and cry?? I do... I can't sleep for everytime I close my eyes I leave my body and go drifting thru that other dimension.

I am curious to know if you have any of these feelings or thoughts? This nexus is strange, it seems like a big high school click I. That no one responds to us new travelers who are just trying to reach out to the community. Are we not all connected?

I see you- may the light shine on you and upon you

It sounds to me like you're having some difficulty integrating the experience.

If you feel as though your ability to interact with the world has been damaged, or if you're breaking down into tears because of what you experienced, I think you have more work to do. The fact that you seem to go to that other place when you close your eyes made me raise an eyebrow.

A lot of people have a hard to adjusting to reality after their first trip, and if this was just a few days ago, I wouldn't say there's cause to worry -- you'll process it in no time. However, if this is something that has been with you for months, or years, then perhaps you might need to seek a little bit of help.

There's a reason we don't suggest people dive right into breakthroughs, but rather, work up to it. Going from 0 to 60 like that, with no prior knowledge of what the experience is like can be very rough on people.

Blessings
~ND

 

[SomeYoungTraveler]

Hello Fellow Travelers! I'm happy to have finally joined the site after reading hundreds of posts the last few weeks! I'm looking forward to sharing my experiences with people that have such an attitude for said substances. I love everytime I have the chance to study pharmacology and, to a long extent, more about psychology and philosophy while under the influence of something that completely changes my way of thinking, almost what some could call a higher power to have such an Effect. As my name denotes, I have not been an explorer for very long, so clearing up the fog ahead of me is a big job in the least, but that's what I hope to achieve with the help of my friends that can lead me through. Hyperspace is of no meaning to me yet as I have not blasted off yet, but after reading Entropymancer's post on if Hyperspace is real or not real, I think I might have some insight on the topic from an observer's point of view.

In a paper I wrote for a college psychology class one time, the professor told everyone it was not possible to prove infinity on paper, so I accepted the challenge and, to the best of my ability, proved it's not possible for infinity to exist in this existence in 3 or 4 pages because infinity doesn't exist; it's an abstract concept used to represent an unending amount, size, or possibility of "something." This means that infinity, in itself, can't be anything because it's like a number. A number represents something, but on it's own, a number is nothing. It represents an amount of nothing as it stands, therefore, it's nothing. What is hyperspace? Hyperspace is nothing without a brain in which to work on. It is merely an abstract concept used to represent a space that is unending in its possibility and size integrated into every part of the brain to say in the least! "Something" is a thing that has the property of being unknown, and can someone ever know, with certainty, what hyperspace is? This is not to say someone cannot have an idea of what hyperspace is, or even know the surroundings very well. But if I say I know a forest very well, and find out the forest leads to the base of a mountain, what does that tell me? I cannot know the forest with certainty until I travel around the base of the mountain. Than what do I find? A large body of water in the forest. More uncertainty. The longer we investigate something seemingly endlessness, the more uncertainty we have about it as a whole. Our universe is as good an example as molecules are. I am certain hyperspace has a functionality to it, as does infinity, but that does not, per se, prove that just because it has a functionality, it is real. However, coming all the way from the famous quote, "I think, therefore I am," Hyperspace comes completely from every part of the brain, from the hippocampus to the occipital lobe to the frontal lobe and so on. Therefore, I don't believe it would be such a leap of faith to say that, "I am, therefore Hyperspace is." However I would never be close-minded to say that I am right, especially due to the fact that right and wrong can be so close to each other in that gray area sometimes.

I'm happy to join the nexus, and I look forward to whatever it is I might find on my journey. Knowledge is power, power causes wars, wars ravage apart an already chaos-filled world in an attempt to control the presumed chaos. Peace is the intended result of war. Why use it in the first place? Maybe it's because how we use affects our lives unarguably. It goes to show how knowledge can twist someone's brain just as easily as it can straighten things out lol! That's what I love about it! And the knowledge possibly attainable from such an infinite realm can hardly be imagined...or can it? We can only imagine...

 

[SomeYoungTraveler]

Just to add on, to "be" means to exist or take place; hyperspace takes place in the brain, so if I am, than, presumably, it's correct to say that hyperspace also is, right?

 

[3rdI]

Just to add on, to "be" means to exist or take place; hyperspace takes place in the brain, so if I am, than, presumably, it's correct to say that hyperspace also is, right?

are you sure???

:d

also you might want to start this in your own introductory thread, you will get a better response and wont interfere with the OP.
welcome:thumb_up:

 

[EternalReturn]

I think that it would be flawed to assume that because a concept cannot be proved by logic and reason, that it is not real. Just the same as it would be flawed to claim that concept to be true based on inner experience alone. What makes this whole hyperspace thing such an anomaly is that the subjective, inner experience, through qualitative accounts, seems to suggest a collective experience among users. I find little importance as to whether or not people perceive demons, elves, or whatever during the experience but rather that they are able to vividly recollect seeing an other during their experience. How they interpret the entities seems to be in alignment to their own cultural upbringings (e.g. for Christians, the mystical experience has always been associated with evil, therefore demons are likely to appear for a Christian who sees the world this way. On the other hand, someone who has been culturally conditioned to view mysticism as a sacred experience might perceive the entities as gods). How the figures are interpreted appears to be relative, but the commonality of such an experience leads to some very interesting propositions. From an Idealist perspective (thinking German Idealism here), the collectively perceived "realm" becomes as real as any other so-called reality. For the radical skeptic, it may be deemed illusory and nonexistent based on the fact that one cannot draw up empirical data to support its existence. Both extremes are dangerous - with radical Idealism, this realm becomes a higher one and takes precedence over ours here on Earth (something even more dangerous as global tensions are progressively becoming more violent and nihilistic). Radical skepticism and a complete denial of other worlds rules out the possibility of something greater than an anthropocentric world-view, leaving us with a nihilistic outlook on human nature and the ability to coexist globally.

As for numbers, and I might as well say language if we're going to "philosophize" here, they are symbols representative of something - a concept that may or may not posses a value in-itself. They may be degraded conceptualizations of nature, but as a species they're all we have to build and destroy, construct and deconstruct - to keep us in flux for better or worse. I think it is important to understand that they're imperfect in that they fail to ultimately capture our ability to completely rationalize the universe, but at the same time, as humans, they're all we have to connect to one another in the social world.

"The longer we investigate something seemingly endlessness, the more uncertainty we have about it as a whole"
Agreed. Language is something that is also seemingly endless. Chomsky's linguistic theories assume it to be infinitely creative, and linguistic anthropology seems to indicate a similar trend in studying its constant changing and recreation. How long has poetry been exhausted, only to keep changing alongside culture, albeit in ambiguous ways? It's because poetry is our species' most direct attempt to linguistically capture our relation to an indifferent universe. Not that the universe as a whole is implicitly irrational, but that our relationship to it is.

Hyperspace, to me, is to plunge into utter absurdity. We're not equipped to understand it or rationalize it via logic or reason. It would perhaps be better described through artistic representation, or poetry. Kubrick said something along the lines of him creating his films to be viewed as a child would. A child doesn't feel the necessity to pin down and understand the work by making it logically comprehensible, they just simply enjoy it. We may feel more inclined to rationalize the experience, but overexertion will just leave us frustrated in trying to grasp something that it in the deepest sense unattainable.

As for Descartes' cogito, check out Kierkegaard's criticism:
"

The Danish philosopher Søren Kierkegaard provided a critical response to the cogito.[16] Kierkegaard argues that the cogito already presupposes the existence of "I", and therefore concluding with existence is logically trivial. Kierkegaard's argument can be made clearer if one extracts the premise "I think" into two further premises:
"x" thinks
I am that "x"
Therefore I think
Therefore I am
Where "x" is used as a placeholder in order to disambiguate the "I" from the thinking thing.[17]
Here, the cogito has already assumed the "I"'s existence as that which thinks. For Kierkegaard, Descartes is merely "developing the content of a concept", namely that the "I", which already exists, thinks.[18]
Kierkegaard argues that the value of the cogito is not its logical argument, but its psychological appeal: a thought must have something that exists to think the thought. It is psychologically difficult to think "I do not exist". (A more correct version of this thought would be "I does not exist".[original research?]) But as Kierkegaard argues, the proper logical flow of argument is that existence is already assumed or presupposed in order for thinking to occur, not that existence is concluded from that thinking.[19]"

(From Wiki)

In fact, the whole concept of the ego - of "I" - is just that, something abstract. Language and reason can conceptualize its existence, but it can never be directly perceived by any rational means. Some Buddhists would argue that the "self" could be located through meditative states, but how would they know? Does the self have some sort of cosmic label on it, indicating that it actually is what the subject feels it to be? They are just concepts that a subject has faith in - a concept based on irrational principles. So yeah, we dig a deeper whole into the "void" by using psychedelics, but we don't "know" anything we didn't already know before. Many seem to feel differently about DMT because of the objectivity of the experience. I feel that it would be taking a great leap of faith to say that "I am, therefore hyperspace is". It would seem more appropriate to say "There are thoughts, and there are experiences". Hyperspace falls under the broad category of experience, and the belief that it is real falls into the (apparently) infinite realm of thought. Sure, it can become real in the Idealistic sense if enough people share the experience and believe it to be so, but universally it is just another unknown. Our species loves enigmas because they push us to believe that there is something beyond mundane existence. Obsessing over it can get to the point of nihilism and a denial of life - something that is as socially devastating as it is individually. To exist in the world we need to accept that life/the world may have no absolutely True value, but that it is worth living/contributing to anyways.

 

[SomeYoungTraveler]

But friend, where does hyperspace come from? Hyperspace doesn't come in a brew prepared with the elves and demons inside it, to, respectively, rephrase what you said. It's complete effects depend on the subject's mindset above all else. So wouldn't it be rational to say that if someone's mindset is false, than hyperspace would be too? If the same applies for being true, than what is hyperspace? It certainly can't be in the middle, and if there's an infinite possibility of linguistics, than we should be able to find the right way to describe it, right? Just depends how hard we look :thumb_up:

I don't have kids, so I guess I can't say for certain, but observing them play, I think it would be safe to say that, children, as with most people, have an undeniable hunger for learning, even when they're not trying to learn. It's a human instinct in order to survive. If they put the square in the circle shape and it doesn't fit, do they wonder why it doesn't fit and move on? Assuming their attention span continues(lol!), they'll continue until they find that the square fit in the square shape. After they get it a few times, they recognize that the square fits in the square hole. According to logic, it only makes sense. They see us walking with our feet and wonder how they can than use their feet to start walking. Taking their first few steps, they start walking around everywhere and than conclude that, "Oh, if I can use these to walk, I could probably run right to my toy box and have toys in every room to play with!"

What's the point in art? Unless I'm wrong, it's where the phrase, "A picture is worth a thousand words," comes from. Hundreds of people can look at the same picture and think it's something completely opposite to what the person standing next to them might think. Either way, just because one person can look at art and say, "It's just a picture," doesn't mean it really is JUST a picture. How someone interprets it is what it is to them, but aren't interpretations what landed the titanic onto the ocean floor?

From what I've heard, from the practices in Brazil to the individual experiences with yage, the best part about the experience is reflecting on it and asking what it is that could have caused said event. If the experience is horrible and things are clashing against each other, I would HAVE to ask myself what it is inside my inner workings that could have brought out such a horrid event to take place. Now we're back to how different people interpret such scenarios, but that's what I absolutely love about people! We're not equipped to dive down into the ocean, and we're most certainly not equipped to fly over the land. When it comes down to it, why do we? Because we can! "Can," is one of the most tempting words in the human language, and it's like you said. There's an infinite amount of word combinations we can use, so anything humans "can" do, is likely to be resolved with a few experiments and lab tests haha! 100 years ago, we couldn't fly. Now we CAN fly. Just because we can't do something now, doesn't mean we're far from being able to do so, right? Knowing our limitations helps us figure out how to get past them. I can guarantee if it's possible or not to defy gravity, there are already people working on it lol.

When I take a painkiller, what happens? The pill is metabolized in the body and the opiates or whatever painkillers are inside the pill act on the body and start numbing the pain. Are the effects real? Or do we just think they're real and the effects are being manipulated by the placebo effect? And if they are being effected by the placebo effect, does that mean the effects are false? If hyperspace doesn't effect you, than it's obviously not real. If there is no functionality, than according to the information proceeding this, it is not real. If it does effect you, than that doesn't make it real, but it seems there is a small window of opportunity to make the statement that it is real. If it would be flawed to say that it's true, than to say that it is false would take an even greater leap of faith over a canyon whose size is unknown to us. Either way, both leaps might not make it, but what's the point in jumping twice than?

If you don't mind me asking, what is your standpoint on hyperspace if reason and logic are not appropriate tools to sculpt something out of it? I'm just curious because if it's pointless to involve reason and logic in such a peculiar reality, hyperspace shouldn't be effected by them in any way.

 

[Awokenatlast]

Hello there,

My first experience was so very powerful that it will be my last. I find no reason to return there until the time of my death. (There is a reason humans are not supposed to peek behind the curtain)

The greatest sadness I have ever felt was when my soul realized I would never be here, having this experience again. Ofcourse I couldn't remember exactly what experience I was mourning for I didn't remember I was human, what is a human -anyway? All I knew was I had soomething WONDERFUL and it was gone

Strange how we take for granted everything in this realm. I too shudder at the thought of being stuck in that stage of "all knowing"
Do you now understand the saying that ignorance is bliss?

Do I regret it at all ?? Nooooooo it's was the most beautiful, scary, wonderful experience In the history of experiences! But having gone down that rabbit hole so deep do you too find it difficult to go back to small talk with friends and family? Do you see people walking around, aimless, hopeless with no purpose and cry?? I do... I can't sleep for everytime I close my eyes I leave my body and go drifting thru that other dimension.

I am curious to know if you have any of these feelings or thoughts? This nexus is strange, it seems like a big high school click I. That no one responds to us new travelers who are just trying to reach out to the community. Are we not all connected?

I see you- may the light shine on you and upon you

It sounds to me like you're having some difficulty integrating the experience.

If you feel as though your ability to interact with the world has been damaged, or if you're breaking down into tears because of what you experienced, I think you have more work to do. The fact that you seem to go to that other place when you close your eyes made me raise an eyebrow.

A lot of people have a hard to adjusting to reality after their first trip, and if this was just a few days ago, I wouldn't say there's cause to worry -- you'll process it in no time. However, if this is something that has been with you for months, or years, then perhaps you might need to seek a little bit of help.

There's a reason we don't suggest people dive right into breakthroughs, but rather, work up to it. Going from 0 to 60 like that, with no prior knowledge of what the experience is like can be very rough on people.

Blessings
~ND

Thank you for your response,

It has now been over a week and i am starting to feel more grounded. only when i sleep do I drift off to that other realm. I believe I just opened a door that was previously closed, meaning i am now more 'sensitive' to receive messages or visions...not in a Jesus Biblical way, but simple messages such as, eat from the earth no chemicals, be thankful, be present and so forth.

I agree with you that no one should break thru as fast as i did, but it was not intentional. I took a small hit and instantly i saw and heard my Shaman say to me "keep pulling" (although he assured me that is not what went down) so maybe that is exactly what i was ready to receive. I am no newbie to Hallucinogens, and have been on a very spiritual journey for over 20 years. I should also note that my family has a history of "witches" in Brazil and i have been told my whole life that spirits try to speak to me but i choose to ignore them out of fear.

So perhaps, I have just been pushed to fully wake up! At first i was scared, for I am human and we fear the unknown, now i am learning thru guided meditation how to control everything so I feel thankful for the experience I had.

Thanks for the chat and your words

 

[EternalReturn]

It's complete effects depend on the subject's mindset above all else. So wouldn't it be rational to say that if someone's mindset is false, than hyperspace would be too? If the same applies for being true, than what is hyperspace? It certainly can't be in the middle, and if there's an infinite possibility of linguistics, than we should be able to find the right way to describe it, right? Just depends how hard we look

Define what a "true" or "false" mindset is, and how it correlates to whatever hyperspace is. As for the nature of language, there are an infinite number of ways to express what I have been calling the absurd (i.e. the relationship between human beings and the cosmos). This does not mean that there are different degrees pertaining to the validity of each expression. It simply means that there are a multitude of ways to perceive the abstract. I would say that a person who has been there hundreds of times would be able to depict an aesthetically more faithful representation of the experience than myself (having only "traveled" five times). However, using language alone to fully grasp an understanding of the experience is impossible. For example, writing a poem about sex falls short of fully capturing the act, as it is trying to depict it from a removed perspective.

children, as with most people, have an undeniable hunger for learning, even when they're not trying to learn

I can't say for sure that it is a hunger - implying a desire to learn. I would say that it is a natural condition to understand and rationalize the world. Like a hereditary survival tactic.

What's the point in art?

To confront reality...to make life bearable...to entertain...to express...to shift cultural paradigms. Those are a few possible explanations, but there are too many interpretations of aesthetics to count. Those are the ones that resonate most with myself. There is always sublime art, which is intended to have transcendental significance - some of it resonates with me, most of it makes me nauseous lol.

"It's just a picture," doesn't mean it really is JUST a picture. How someone interprets it is what it is to them, but aren't interpretations what landed the titanic onto the ocean floor?

But a painting is a painting. It may have immense cultural and personal significance imbued in it, but it is a visual recreation of the artist's world. Film is perhaps a great example, using images, audio, and, usually, dialogue to capture ideas and emotions. Some of it fails to reach others, some of it taps into the "spirit" of the masses and becomes a blockbuster, and some of it resonates with those who have always felt marginalization from those masses by making fun of them (which in turn usually stirs up controversy and is considered pretentious. Google the riots that Jodorowsky's films caused in Mexico, or Resnais' Marienbad did in France).

I would say that miscalculations are what landed the Titanic onto the ocean floor. Like architecture, art should at least be socially responsible and well-informed.

From what I've heard, from the practices in Brazil to the individual experiences with yage, the best part about the experience is reflecting on it and asking what it is that could have caused said event. If the experience is horrible and things are clashing against each other, I would HAVE to ask myself what it is inside my inner workings that could have brought out such a horrid event to take place.

Smoking spice is really unlike any other psychedelic I've experienced at the breakthrough level. The others I've tried have forced me to really look inside of my own psychology and subconscious mind. Spice happened so quick it was really difficult to discern anything. I mean, I had a weird being jumping around in my face for a couple of minutes and felt incredible disoriented, then I was back in the chair I plopped down in. I honestly couldn't help crack up after the experience in disbelief. Yage sounds like much more of an introspective journey that takes you through a cycle of experiences while it is digested. Again, people who have done spice hundreds of times might be able to reflect more on what they see and why they see it. I honestly believe, however, that through meditating or even creating art a person can gain the same insights. I write, and sometimes when I read my stories I realize that my characters are just mirrors of the way I interpret the world. Sometimes it makes me cringe lol, but it helps to reflect on.

We're not equipped to dive down into the ocean, and we're most certainly not equipped to fly over the land. When it comes down to it, why do we? Because we can! "Can," is one of the most tempting words in the human language, and it's like you said. There's an infinite amount of word combinations we can use, so anything humans "can" do, is likely to be resolved with a few experiments and lab tests haha! 100 years ago, we couldn't fly. Now we CAN fly. Just because we can't do something now, doesn't mean we're far from being able to do so, right? Knowing our limitations helps us figure out how to get past them. I can guarantee if it's possible or not to defy gravity, there are already people working on it lol.

Just as much as we're not fully equipped to explore altered states of consciousness, but there are a number of ways to get there from aestheticism, to meditation, to ingestion of psychedelic substances, to BSDM. We haven't gotten to the point of fully being able to explain or understand them. We may never, but I would like to see more scientific research done in the area. There's so little we know about them because the taboo wont be lifted until humans overcome puritanical religious values. I agree about knowing limitations, I just don't think that doing so would ever alleviate existential "anguish". Even if/when we discover alternate realms, what would it mean? We might take a leap in understanding the universe, but the human condition would remain the same...People get bored when society stagnates and create/destroy to keep everything in flux.

When I take a painkiller, what happens? The pill is metabolized in the body and the opiates or whatever painkillers are inside the pill act on the body and start numbing the pain. Are the effects real? Or do we just think they're real and the effects are being manipulated by the placebo effect? And if they are being effected by the placebo effect, does that mean the effects are false? If hyperspace doesn't effect you, than it's obviously not real. If there is no functionality, than according to the information proceeding this, it is not real. If it does effect you, than that doesn't make it real, but it seems there is a small window of opportunity to make the statement that it is real. If it would be flawed to say that it's true, than to say that it is false would take an even greater leap of faith over a canyon whose size is unknown to us. Either way, both leaps might not make it, but what's the point in jumping twice than?

Painkiller effects are real. They cause the brain to release chemicals which generate a sense of well-being. It's not something sustainable, which causes addiction and withdrawal, but the temporary effects happen. I think this contrasts with DMT, or even mystical experiences in general. I've seen people in Churches become excited to the point of seizure from music, the words of a pastor, and a collective "spirit". I've had seizures from smoking weed alone that are akin to the mystical experience. What's real is that a person can excite their mind to the point of the electrical release of neurological synapses that affect the entire body, indicating that the two are directly linked (in contrast to Descartes' cogito). Psychedelics cause activity in the brain, which leads to different types of hallucinations. We can study where the phenomena occurs, and connect those sites to areas which affect memory, audio/visual perception, etc... but as far as I know the natural human ability to produce images (psychosis, or in a dream state for e.g.) is some mysterious shit. Have you ever read Oliver Sacks? I've been meaning to get into his work, which has researched this area for a long time. I've heard some interesting things from him concerning hallucinations and music perception, but I've never read an entire work by him.

If you don't mind me asking, what is your standpoint on hyperspace if reason and logic are not appropriate tools to sculpt something out of it? I'm just curious because if it's pointless to involve reason and logic in such a peculiar reality, hyperspace shouldn't be effected by them in any way.

It's not that I feel reason and logic are pointless, I just don't feel that they can extract any concrete meaning from what hyperspace is. They can lead to interesting speculation, but there needs to be more than that to secure it as something as real as the world we inhabit. I'm content with recognizing it as a profound experience that allows users to push the boundaries on how they understand reality. I think it's a great tool for artists, writers, and thinkers, as it violently launches them out of their comfort zones. For me, psychedelics have helped me train myself to get comfortable in places where logic and reason deteriorate; to accept the world as an enigma - sometimes beautiful, sometimes terrifying - without having to rationalize every aspect of it (although I'd be lying if I said I don't try desperately to do so every time I get there and I need something to cling to. That's when those allies always seem to fail us the most). I'm content with saying that hyperspace is something of the unknown, until proven otherwise. We can only do so through experimentation and arriving at a conclusion based on a testable hypothesis that either proves or nullifies the claim. I don't think that it is fully necessary to take a leap of faith into the absurd, but to always stay lucid and to challenge any claims that people offer up as "Truth". It's the same as the existential question - trying to construct meaningful existence in a world that has no absolute values.

 

[EternalReturn]

Hello there,

My first experience was so very powerful that it will be my last. I find no reason to return there until the time of my death. (There is a reason humans are not supposed to peek behind the curtain)

The greatest sadness I have ever felt was when my soul realized I would never be here, having this experience again. Ofcourse I couldn't remember exactly what experience I was mourning for I didn't remember I was human, what is a human -anyway? All I knew was I had soomething WONDERFUL and it was gone

Strange how we take for granted everything in this realm. I too shudder at the thought of being stuck in that stage of "all knowing"
Do you now understand the saying that ignorance is bliss?

Do I regret it at all ?? Nooooooo it's was the most beautiful, scary, wonderful experience In the history of experiences! But having gone down that rabbit hole so deep do you too find it difficult to go back to small talk with friends and family? Do you see people walking around, aimless, hopeless with no purpose and cry?? I do... I can't sleep for everytime I close my eyes I leave my body and go drifting thru that other dimension.

I am curious to know if you have any of these feelings or thoughts? This nexus is strange, it seems like a big high school click I. That no one responds to us new travelers who are just trying to reach out to the community. Are we not all connected?

I see you- may the light shine on you and upon you

It sounds to me like you're having some difficulty integrating the experience.

If you feel as though your ability to interact with the world has been damaged, or if you're breaking down into tears because of what you experienced, I think you have more work to do. The fact that you seem to go to that other place when you close your eyes made me raise an eyebrow.

A lot of people have a hard to adjusting to reality after their first trip, and if this was just a few days ago, I wouldn't say there's cause to worry -- you'll process it in no time. However, if this is something that has been with you for months, or years, then perhaps you might need to seek a little bit of help.

There's a reason we don't suggest people dive right into breakthroughs, but rather, work up to it. Going from 0 to 60 like that, with no prior knowledge of what the experience is like can be very rough on people.

Blessings
~ND

Thank you for your response,

It has now been over a week and i am starting to feel more grounded. only when i sleep do I drift off to that other realm. I believe I just opened a door that was previously closed, meaning i am now more 'sensitive' to receive messages or visions...not in a Jesus Biblical way, but simple messages such as, eat from the earth no chemicals, be thankful, be present and so forth.

I agree with you that no one should break thru as fast as i did, but it was not intentional. I took a small hit and instantly i saw and heard my Shaman say to me "keep pulling" (although he assured me that is not what went down) so maybe that is exactly what i was ready to receive. I am no newbie to Hallucinogens, and have been on a very spiritual journey for over 20 years. I should also note that my family has a history of "witches" in Brazil and i have been told my whole life that spirits try to speak to me but i choose to ignore them out of fear.

So perhaps, I have just been pushed to fully wake up! At first i was scared, for I am human and we fear the unknown, now i am learning thru guided meditation how to control everything so I feel thankful for the experience I had.

Thanks for the chat and your words

A word of advice from someone with relatively little DMT experience: read all you can that puts the experience into context. Watch films and reflect on them. I had a crazy experience with LSD my first time and afterwards all I did was read and read, and gradually things got calmer. I read scientific articles on hallucinogens - peer reviewed sources, of course. I read literature from people who have experience, different mythologies, and art by film makers in the surrealist/absurdist genre.

Our experiences may have been different in nature - yours being with DMT and mind with LSD, but I have a feeling that the shock experienced afterwards is pretty similar.

One thing I remember really helping was to read Timothy Leary's "Psychedelic Guide" that compared the experience to sections from the Tibetan Book of the Dead.

Anyways good luck, and I hope the headache goes away

 

[--Shadow]

I can relate to a lot of this.
When I was 17, my cousin and me (and one of his fiends) took some LSD that was quite strong. It was probably the 10th time I had tripped.
After 15 mins, the sky was completely purple. We decided to smoke some pot to calm down, but that seemed to make it stronger.
As we were walking back to my cousins house, we walked past a yaht on a trailer, and I said to my friend "it looks like there are people inside".
My cousin thought I said "there's demons inside"' and started power walking off ahead of us.
By the time we reached his house, he had woken up his parents and was pacing up and down those saying "god...god....god... He will protect me..."
My uncle started shouting at me as I was melting into the carpet, all I could say was "yes, ok, yes.."

To cut a long story short, my cousin became a born again Christian nut, and still is.

I definitely felt as thought I didn't come all the way back 'down' to reality. I felt a little off. I felt like I was weird and not sure of myself.
About 6 months later, I took LSD again and had an awesome happy trip, and it actually brought me all the way back to normality that time.

If you've had a bad DMT experience, I would definitely suggest taking it again until you have a good experience. Of the roughly 20 trips I had taken, I had only ever had that bad one experience.

 

[Awokenatlast]

Hello there,

My first experience was so very powerful that it will be my last. I find no reason to return there until the time of my death. (There is a reason humans are not supposed to peek behind the curtain)

The greatest sadness I have ever felt was when my soul realized I would never be here, having this experience again. Ofcourse I couldn't remember exactly what experience I was mourning for I didn't remember I was human, what is a human -anyway? All I knew was I had soomething WONDERFUL and it was gone

Strange how we take for granted everything in this realm. I too shudder at the thought of being stuck in that stage of "all knowing"
Do you now understand the saying that ignorance is bliss?

Do I regret it at all ?? Nooooooo it's was the most beautiful, scary, wonderful experience In the history of experiences! But having gone down that rabbit hole so deep do you too find it difficult to go back to small talk with friends and family? Do you see people walking around, aimless, hopeless with no purpose and cry?? I do... I can't sleep for everytime I close my eyes I leave my body and go drifting thru that other dimension.

I am curious to know if you have any of these feelings or thoughts? This nexus is strange, it seems like a big high school click I. That no one responds to us new travelers who are just trying to reach out to the community. Are we not all connected?

I see you- may the light shine on you and upon you

It sounds to me like you're having some difficulty integrating the experience.

If you feel as though your ability to interact with the world has been damaged, or if you're breaking down into tears because of what you experienced, I think you have more work to do. The fact that you seem to go to that other place when you close your eyes made me raise an eyebrow.

A lot of people have a hard to adjusting to reality after their first trip, and if this was just a few days ago, I wouldn't say there's cause to worry -- you'll process it in no time. However, if this is something that has been with you for months, or years, then perhaps you might need to seek a little bit of help.

There's a reason we don't suggest people dive right into breakthroughs, but rather, work up to it. Going from 0 to 60 like that, with no prior knowledge of what the experience is like can be very rough on people.

Blessings
~ND

Thank you for your response,

It has now been over a week and i am starting to feel more grounded. only when i sleep do I drift off to that other realm. I believe I just opened a door that was previously closed, meaning i am now more 'sensitive' to receive messages or visions...not in a Jesus Biblical way, but simple messages such as, eat from the earth no chemicals, be thankful, be present and so forth.

I agree with you that no one should break thru as fast as i did, but it was not intentional. I took a small hit and instantly i saw and heard my Shaman say to me "keep pulling" (although he assured me that is not what went down) so maybe that is exactly what i was ready to receive. I am no newbie to Hallucinogens, and have been on a very spiritual journey for over 20 years. I should also note that my family has a history of "witches" in Brazil and i have been told my whole life that spirits try to speak to me but i choose to ignore them out of fear.

So perhaps, I have just been pushed to fully wake up! At first i was scared, for I am human and we fear the unknown, now i am learning thru guided meditation how to control everything so I feel thankful for the experience I had.

Thanks for the chat and your words

A word of advice from someone with relatively little DMT experience: read all you can that puts the experience into context. Watch films and reflect on them. I had a crazy experience with LSD my first time and afterwards all I did was read and read, and gradually things got calmer. I read scientific articles on hallucinogens - peer reviewed sources, of course. I read literature from people who have experience, different mythologies, and art by film makers in the surrealist/absurdist genre.

Our experiences may have been different in nature - yours being with DMT and mind with LSD, but I have a feeling that the shock experienced afterwards is pretty similar.

One thing I remember really helping was to read Timothy Leary's "Psychedelic Guide" that compared the experience to sections from the Tibetan Book of the Dead.

Anyways good luck, and I hope the headache goes away

So funny you say this, I'm currently reading the Tibetan book of the Dead!! What's crazy is I've had it for years and could never understand any of it, now it all makes sense!!!

Thanks so much for your advice friend

Namaste

 

[○]

Great thread. Welcome to whats really going on. The depths of Spirit, of Self.

tat

 

[EternalReturn]

@Awokenatlast...Crazy how those coincidences always occur. As for the book...I still haven't read the whole Book of the Dead. I always pick it up, read a section, then put it down for months. It's so long, and there is so much useful stuff in there to take in. I'll finish it one day.

And thanks, Tattvamasi.

I did give the spice another go because I had been sort of disappointed "spiritually" with it.
I went in and just focused as strong as I could with a question - "What can I do to maximize my potential as a writer/artist". I didn't want to see aliens lol. I went straight to this place where it felt I tapped into the "Gaia consciousness" I've read about and sort of demanded "I want artistic 'power'". She said, "what do you do?", sort of condescendingly. "I write", I replied. Then I sort of dropped into this lower "realm" that was pretty beautiful and there were little critters that would scatter when I tried to look at them and seemed to disappear into the things around me - like they were hiding behind reality as if it were fabric or a green screen image. I just sat there looking at them and giggling like a goof.

When I came down completely, I felt I got what I was looking for. I'm not going to delve into the spice again until I have some sort of definitive question to ask.