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Potentially New Study on Anesthesia-like DMT Administration

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Artemis

Rising Star
After reading Strassman's "The Spirit Molecule" on his 90s DMT study, I wondered what could be learned by keeping someone in hyperspace through a type of extended release machine like anesthesia. Well about two decades later, it seems like interest is growing on this exact topic. Check out Andrew Gallimore's papers online. He explores the deep questions on DMT that all of us have pondered. Extremely interesting.. I personally believe he is on to something very real and important.

 
Certainly but then again, the first humans to enter space were im sure quite scared. Will take very brave people to partake.
 
Hyperspace sounds much more pleasant than being 'knocked out' during a surgery. If given the option, I would choose DMT anesthesia.

I have had a few surgeries in my life and it is always scary. Hyperspace would be a welcome place for me. I know it and feel comfortable there. Personally this would ease my fears of a surgery.

Very interesting article. Thanks for sharing that!
 
Hyperspace sounds much more pleasant than being 'knocked out' during a surgery. If given the option, I would choose DMT anesthesia.

I've had ketamine in hospital for a small procedure, draining an abscess, that required incision and is painful. It was frankly one of the top psychedelic experiences of my life:lol: and took me quite by surprise. I had a death kind of thing and found myself in an alien environment, seemingly merged with the machines in the room. I know it's not DMT and works in an entirely different manner but just wanted to chime in on psychedelic experiences on the operating table.

EDIT: responded to dmstr8's comment prior to reading the article. After scanning it , it appears the purpose of developing this mechanism is not for analgesia or anesthesia but to better explore the consciousness states provided by DMT. This is pretty interesting, and probably a little better than missile silo torture chair.
 
The risks of this seems way too high. You'd have to work so hard to weed out people who might have adverse reactions to it would hardly be worth it. I'm sure only a subset of the population is psychologically equipped to handle an extended immersion in hyperspace, and consequences of getting it wrong are pretty high.

Also, you may find the thought of hyperspace more comforting than anesthesia, but I just recently had a surgery done that required general anesthetic, and to be honest, I was NOT in a psychological place to handle a powerful psychedelic trip. Scared about the future, in pain, and in an unfamiliar area sounds like the opposite of an optimal set and setting to me.

Maybe if you combined it with benzos and other analgesics it could be more of an 'inflight movie' sort of thing, but I'm not crazy about this idea.

Interesting paper though. Glad to see Strassman is moving away from all that Kabbalistic woo.

Blessings
~ND
 
Oh ya definitely risky but this research could open many doors for a deeper understanding of consciousness and the construct of our reality. Need to point out they are not indicating usage of DMT in place of anesthesia during surgery haha that would be terrifying and extremely painful! I meant that the process is similar in that anesthesia keeps you unconscious by delivering consistent dosages of the drug. The process with DMT would be similar for an extended release infusion to keep the DMT to blood concentration just right for an extended stay in hyperspace.
 
It would be an interesting experiment, and probably a new alternative administration method for advanced psychonauts, but I question its use as a tool of research. Just look at how badly DMT trip experiences translate to everyday thought.

Contradicting theories, data without significance, and then you have the people who seem to have gotten a completely different message altogether, suddenly and traumatically turning to theism and bigotry, sometimes after years of psychonautic experience...

The "hyperspace experience" either simply is not compatible with the normal, waking mode of the human mind, or maybe there really is nothing meaningful there, you are only injected with an artificial sense of pure significance and understanding, similarly to how cocaine gives you an artificial sense of contentedness.

Either way, I don't see how "more of the same" would somehow be conductive of a qualitative jump in terms of significance and learning.
 
Felnik said:
PsyDuckmonkey im just curious have you tried DMT
before ?
Several times. You can find my experience report of a breakthrough experience.

I'm just personality-wise careful around hype trains. Don't want to end up under the wheels. :p
 
I agree the subjective nature of the experience is difficult to almost impossible to study for sure. It depends on where you stand as to whether or not you believe DMT is something worth investigating. I think
Andrew Gallimore is pretty reasonable in his theories about all this.

The part you
left out is that there's absolutely nothing to say that the DMT experience could be something very significant and that our present level of understanding is insufficient to grasp the magnitude of it .Or it could be you just took a drug and your just tripping and seeing funny colors. At this point all options are open even if you leave out all the woo woo stuff.
 
Felnik said:
I agree the subjective nature of the experience is difficult to almost impossible to study for sure. It depends on where you stand as to whether or not you believe DMT is something worth investigating. I think
Andrew Gallimore is pretty reasonable in his theories about all this.

The part you
left out is that there's absolutely nothing to say that the DMT experience could be something very significant and that our present level of understanding is insufficient to grasp the magnitude of it .Or it could be you just took a drug and your just tripping and seeing funny colors. At this point all options are open even if you leave out all the woo woo stuff.
I think I did reflect on that. What I most certainly did not say is that DMT is not worth studying. If I thought that, I wouldn't be here. I just expressed some skepticism around the purported usefulness of artificially keeping someone in a full DMT breakthrough for a longer period of time.

Note my words:
PsyDuckMonkey said:
I don't see how "more of the same" would somehow be conductive of a qualitative jump in terms of significance and learning.

If I recall my own breakthrough experience, the difficulty in bringing knowledge back is not in the duration of the experience - from my perspective, the experience itself was timeless. The difficulty was that with a waking mind, making cogent sense of the experience was close to impossible, and any "learning" describable in human words is nothing but pure conjecture and a-posteriori rationalization.

I don't see how staying in longer would change anything about this barrier. It might be conductive of a more intense and probably more immersive trip, but as in bringing knowledge back, I don't know. I've had high-significance, "dimension jump" style hyperreal dreams that lasted hours, and yet I was unable to bring any intelligible meaning back from them. I suspect the same would be the case of a really long breakthrough experience.

Also add to this that I suspect that the "hyperspace" phenomenon that is experienced after the breakthrough in most people might not actually be the same thing as the breakthrough itself, and might be connected to an already lowered concentration of active DMT in the corticospinal fluid.

(And of course I COULD go all woo-woo, I just choose not to. I have extensive experience in the field of mysticism and Magick, and am fully aware of the social risks of misunderstanding and sectarianism in doing that. So I keep myself to the rule of rather erring on the side of skepticism.)
 
The title of this thread is misleading...

I thought they were going to be exploring DMT as an anesthetic rather than exploring a method of administration common in anesthesia, but which in this case which has nothing to do with anesthesia...

It has to do with rapid metabolism and resistance to tolerance concerning DMT, essentially every time the DMT would be metabolized in vivo you're injected with another dose, maintaining consistent DMT levels...

Using pharmacokinetic modeling and DMT blood sampling data, we demonstrate that the unique pharmacological characteristics of DMT, which also include a rapid onset and lack of acute tolerance to its subjective effects, make it amenable to administration by target-controlled intravenous infusion. This is a technology developed to maintain a stable brain concentration of anesthetic drugs during surgery.


-eg
 
I'd love to see this used in a follow-up study to the psilocybin study done at the Imperial College. Apply Petri's model for brain functional networks to the DMT experience, and compare it with psilocybin. That's data I'd love to see.

Blessings
~ND
 
Anesthesia-like administration meaning it is similar to the administration of anesthesia. I can see how it is somewhat confusing but that's what the original paper is linked :)

I see the side of skeptics on this type of research but I lean towards the supporters. Despite our many experiences and knowledge on DMT, no one really knows what is truly happening. Because of strict scheduling of these plant based entheogens, important scientific research has been very suppressed. Entheogens could be the link to bring our species to come together and move forward. I believe it is critical to research as a possibility. I am also one to believe, like Gallimore, Strassman, and Hancock that these entheogens are not simply hallucinations conjured up by our brain with no deeper meaning, but tools that allow our consciousness to move between planes of reality, potentially alternate universes.

There is another paper by Gallimore that explores Simulation Theory and how DMT may relate to it. He explains how the DMT molecule shows up all over nature almost as if it was by design. A simple molecule that is so easily accepted through the blood-brain barrier has been hiding in plain sight. Check out this paper too.

 
IMO, the absolute majesty of the tryptamine catalyzed mystic state is its, abjectly undomesticable FERAL nature. Try as we may to apply the codes and constraints of rational, materialist, "scientism", its(mystic state) quick silver immateriality eludes empirical confinement.

Ain't it grand, call it quantum. Described by correlates related in an irreducible, inversely proportional fashion. Forever, NON DISPROVABLE. It's all about the, woo!

Doesn't mean we shouldn't whip out our newfangled, damn near magic "spectroscopes". Wisdom dictates matching of tool with job. The tryptamine palace yields not from the square and compass.

Peace
 
And yes.

Legarto Rey said:
IMO, the absolute majesty of the tryptamine catalyzed mystic state is its, abjectly undomesticable FERAL nature. Try as we may to apply the codes and constraints of rational, materialist, "scientism", its(mystic state) quick silver immateriality eludes empirical confinement.

Ain't it grand, call it quantum. Described by correlates related in an irreducible, inversely proportional fashion. Forever, NON DISPROVABLE. It's all about the, woo!
..

Peace

I agree, I believe there is little point in applying emperical materialistic methodology to something like DMT. We have applied this method to all other significant hard drugs and have reached nothing. People still are addicted and abuse coke left and right. The only real outcome of these studies has been the synthesis of anti-medicines and harm reduction drugs. In a vain attempt to manage symptoms but nothing really in actual understanding of the drug itself IMO

The previous is a knee-jerk reaction. As I have now actually read the study and their intentions clearly show a more psychological character and the efforts in studying this kind of injection of DMT, I think might appeal to some maniacally brave bunch of explorers
 
Infectedstyle said:
I agree, I believe there is little point in applying emperical materialistic methodology to something like DMT. We have applied this method to all other significant hard drugs and have reached nothing. People still are addicted and abuse coke left and right. The only real outcome of these studies has been the synthesis of anti-medicines and harm reduction drugs. In a vain attempt to manage symptoms but nothing really in actual understanding of the drug itself IMO

The previous is a knee-jerk reaction. As I have now actually read the study and their intentions clearly show a more psychological character and the efforts in studying this kind of injection of DMT, I think might appeal to some maniacally brave bunch of explorers

What are you talking about? Scientific studies of psychopharmacology have been *hugely* effective, and have given us technologies that have vastly improved the lives of thousands of people.

Eg:
- Anesthesia. Presumably you don't want to go into your next surgery while remaining fully conscious, right? Personally, I wouldn't.
- Analgesia. Similarly, do you want to recover from that surgery with nothing but willow bark to chew? I just had an adventure with kidney stones and codeine was a *lifesaver.*
- Antipsychotics. Yes, they have been horribly misused, but they have also given a lot of people a new lease on life. I mentioned in another topic who, thanks largely to aripiprazole and related compounds, has been able to lead the life she wants to live, rather than being in a pit of bipolar psychosis. My schizophrenic aunt feels the same way.
- Anti-migraine medications started with research into the effects of drugs like LSD on migraines. Now, I have a medication (rizatriptan benzoate) which I can take and abort my headaches, instead of spending 3 days locked in a dark room in crippling pain.
- The insights from the work being done by Nutt's lab at the Imperial College have given us fascinating insights into the way the brain relates to consciousness.

Those are just a few examples, I could go on.

If you really think that the focus on materialism and research into psychoactive drugs is pointless (after all, we haven't cured addiction, right?), then by all means, next time you have a surgery, reject the anesthsia and the post-surgery pain-killers. Better pray you never develop a psychotic or neurological disorder, also.

As for me, I think this stuff is awesome and really enjoy the fact that I can live my life in a way that I couldn't without my migraine meds. Thousands of disabled people reliant on medications feel the same way.

Blessings
~ND
 
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