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Ps. Mexicana - Sacred Flesh of the Aztec Gods

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DarkShaman

Rising Star
Has anyone had the opportunity to experience the "Flesh of the Aztec Gods" (Psilocybe Mexicana)?

SWIM first partook of the flesh about 5-6 years ago. Dosage was 1 gm dried, powdered, encapsulated.

That experience changed SWIM's whole perspective of what psilocybin is about. The term "shroom" just kind of gives him the shudders now, as, from SWIM's perspective, the average mushroom (ps. cubensis) comes with so many side effects that the user only gets a very small taste of psilocybin.
 
:d

Yes indeed! Initially discovered & consumed by the Aztec Indians for sacramental purposes to communicate w/ their gods, Dr. Albert Hoffman discovered & introduced Psilocybe Mexicana to the scientific community through the identification and naming of the active alkaloids psilocybin and psilocin, both of which occur naturally in the development of the Ps. Mexicana mushroom.

The average "tripper", for lack of better words, will most likely not fall upon the opportunity to experience "The Flesh of the Aztec Gods" in the span of his/her natural life. That is not to say that Ps. Mexicana mushrooms are so incredibly scarce, or even extremely difficult to grow, but perhaps that the limitless spiritual pathways opened by these magnificent carpophores don't allow for them to fall into the hands of "the average joe".

Many will contest that most Panaeolus strains of mushrooms will generally exceed the level of potency found in Ps. Mexicana mushrooms. SWIM disagrees. Might SWIM also add that he means Ps. Mexicana (generally the strain of Jalisco, Mexico origin) fruit bodies, and NOT sclerotia (a.k.a. philosopher's stones; they are basically mushroom potatoes). Fuck that shit! With all due respect to mycology, as well as the sacred Mother Earth, sclerotia has given Ps. Mexicana a bad name.

Anyways, now the fun stuff:

-Take away the "shroom" part of tripping (i.e. ALL negative or unpleasant side effects)
-Imagine the most colorful, vivid visual hallucinations that one may have experienced while tripping - okay, now forget about those b/c they're not even in the same galaxy as this
-Imagine constant comfort and stable mind control throughout the entire trip
-Weirdness? Forget about it. Discomfort & restlessness? Sorry, nope.

Hungry yet?

This is just a mere sample of the goodness of the Flesh. SWIM is a straight-up heavyweighter when it comes to psychedelic voyages - always has been. In the past SWIM would consume 8-10 dry grams of his trophy generation Ecuadorian Cubensis (which, might SWIM add, are MUCH more potent than the average, or commercial, Cubensis mushroom - don't ask how, laboratory secrets worth more than your life!) for an average trek. SWIM's Ps. Mexicana doseage: 3 dry grams, max.
 
next year ill be trying to grow them
thanks for the tip on the strain

yes i am insanely jealous i have been curious about these in particular recently
i have had pans subs and am not a fan
i cannot wait to commune with the spiritual awesomeness that the aztecs had

if anyone knows anything more of these please add here or pm me
 
Suicybe did you read the Appendixs in "The Teachings of Don Juan"?

He specifically states that the "Little Smoke" is made from Psilocybe mexicana.

So... has anybody ever smoked this species of mushroom before?
 
I see they are grass loving...hmmm I also see a lot of people have trouble getting them to fruit, any suggestions?

Damn, after a bit of reasearch my interest is more than peaked.
 
King of the Boom's..

Anyway, SWIM imagines its grain loving just like most cubes. I'm brought to curiosity as well... I've been only been able to find prints(SWIM has had bad luck in the past; ABORT ABORT ABORT). Any msg'd info would be most obliged. :d

::Inoculating over a heater, 50::50 vermiculite/manure, level humidifier&air flow.
SIM90026.jpg

Very recommended for any incubator.
 
acolon_5 said:
I see they are grass loving...hmmm I also see a lot of people have trouble getting them to fruit, any suggestions?

Damn, after a bit of reasearch my interest is more than peaked.

i just read a report about the problem with fruiting.. you might find it interesting


he says that as soon as there were just a few little mushrooms growing..that the rest of the cakes started fruiting...and they were all different ages...he says that perhaps there is something that one mushroom emits that gets the other mushrooms to grow...

another way to get them to fruit is to put them somewhere cold for a few nights...this tricks the mushroom into thinking winter is coming..and its time to spread its seed
 
suicybe said:
next year ill be trying to grow them
thanks for the tip on the strain

yes i am insanely jealous i have been curious about these in particular recently
i have had pans subs and am not a fan
i cannot wait to commune with the spiritual awesomeness that the aztecs had

if anyone knows anything more of these please add here or pm me

If SWIY has intentions of cultivating Ps. Mexicana, SWIM suggests procuring spores of the "Jalisco" strain as this is the only strain that SWIM has had decent results with fruiting from. Some enjoy sclerotia (a.k.a. "philosopher's stones"), although SWIM has come to the conclusion that the only thing philosophical about sclerotia is that they suck in comparison to fruit bodies.
 
[quote='Coatl]Suicybe did you read the Appendixs in "The Teachings of Don Juan"?

He specifically states that the "Little Smoke" is made from Psilocybe mexicana.

So... has anybody ever smoked this species of mushroom before?
[/quote]

Smoked? My dear, psilocybin and psilocin both oxidize at temperatures in excess of approximately 105 degrees farenheit. In essence, this would prove to be a fruitless effort.

More cool info on psilos and Ps. Mexicana:
 
Smoked? My dear, psilocybin and psilocin both oxidize at temperatures in excess of approximately 105 degrees farenheit. In essence, this would prove to be a fruitless effort.

Hey thats what I've heard to! Read Don Juan tho! Thats what he says he does... so that may mean the effects are due to different compounds... perhaps high levels of Baeocystin?
 
acolon_5 said:
I see they are grass loving...hmmm I also see a lot of people have trouble getting them to fruit, any suggestions?

Damn, after a bit of reasearch my interest is more than peaked.

Ps. Mexis can indeed be a bit finicky to fruit. If using jars, SWIM would suggest birdseed as a substrate. This has always worked for SWIM in the past. Using bags, SWIM suggests rye grain or birdseed cased with a manure mixture (although SWIM has produced fruits with a vermiculite-only casing layer on more than one occasion). SWIM has not had luck with rye grass seed or brf/verm (aside from the fact that Ps. Mexis prefer a different variety of nutritional content than that of br rice flour). Keep in mind that mycelial culures of Ps. Mexicana are quite different in appearance than those of Ps. Cubensis. Ps. Mexicana forms a much more delicate, thinner, spider-web looking mycelial structure.

As far as fruiting is concerned, patience, perseverence, and sterility are really the only tricks for success. Wait, no, intuition for and spiritual connection with these sacred carpophores helps too, but must first be established. SWIM's summary: definitely possible to grow by anyone w/ basic-intermediate knowledge in mycology; Jalisco strain = most fruit bodies of Ps. Mexi strains; difficult to obtain decent prints, so only use trusted, established sources.
 
[quote='Coatl]
Smoked? My dear, psilocybin and psilocin both oxidize at temperatures in excess of approximately 105 degrees farenheit. In essence, this would prove to be a fruitless effort.

Hey thats what I've heard to! Read Don Juan tho! Thats what he says he does... so that may mean the effects are due to different compounds... perhaps high levels of Baeocystin?[/quote]

Yes, um, SWIM has read Don Juan, and unfortunately it is a work of fiction. SWIM, on the other hand, is a scientist and only works with facts. With all due respect, anyone claiming to "trip" from smoking psychoactive-containing mushrooms is experiencing what is referred to as a "placebo effect", meaning that their mind is tricking them into thinking that they may be high when in fact they aren't.

Additionally, baeocystin and norbaeocystin are compounds whose molecular structures are VERY similar to those of psilocybin and psilocin (and also generally exist in much smaller amounts), which, in effect, would mean that you are more likely to "trip" from the psilocybin/psilocin in mushrooms (which we previously covered) than the baeocystin/norbaeocystin when smoking mushrooms.

More info on baeocystin and norbaeocystin:
 
maybe somebody should try it out..do an extraction from some mushrooms...and try to vaporize some..maybe a group of people could try it out...do a little study...

just because we dont know how its happening doesnt mean something isnt happening...it would be worth investigating anyway
 
and also..what happens to the molecule when the psilocybin and psilocin oxidize? and why does this then make it inactive? because doesnt dmt n-oxide have some effects? 69ron has posted that SWIThem prefers dmt n-oxide sometimes because it has slightly smoother perhaps..somebody correct me if im wrong on that one...

from bluelight
Ok, there's been a lot of mushroom talk around here lately, and I thought it might be a fun chore to round up and organize some info (from authoritative-sounding sources) regarding the physical properties of psilocybin. Don't expect any conclusive deductions from this post (well, maybe one or two), as it's really more of a collection and brief look at several arguments pulled from the rumor cloud that engulfs this topic.


First, from Erowid:
I'd say the question of Psilocybin + Heat is no longer a controversy, its a misunderstanding coupled with incomplete data. I think the open question is whether all dried mushrooms can be boiled without significant loss or whether some types react better or worse to this treatment.

Sub-boiling or lightly boiling water does not noticably reduce the activity of dried Psilocybe cubensis. Many people ingest their mushrooms as tea without needing to increase the quantity used. We know of people who regularly boil their mushrooms for up to 30 mins before drinking the resulting liquid. All fully active. The hotter the water, the better. The water should be at least slightly acidic, but psilocybin is highly water soluable.

So, the experience of many people says it works. Smoking mushrooms can work, but most mushrooms aren't terribly potent so you need to smoke a lot of mushrooms to get a strong effect (imagine smoking 2 grams of mushrooms ! yuck!). But many reliable sources report a mild effect at smoking a bowl or two and this is potentiated by other entheogens (LSD specifically).

However, this is not to say that psilocin, another active chemical, won't break down quickly in boiling water (it probably will). Different types of mushrooms contain differing ratios of psilocybin to psilocin, so it seems quite possible that different strains would fare differently with boiling or hot water extractions. There is evidence to suggest that some degree of potency loss occurs if Psilocybe cyanescens are heated by a method such as boiling.
link (Erowid Psilocybin Mushroom Vault : Info on Psilocybin and Heat)

Thor_Shroom, webmaster of the Shroomery, has said the following:Heating mushrooms is a BAD idea, if you feel destroying a lot of the mushrooms potency is a good idea thats really quite sad...The point is HEAT destroys psilocybin, so SMOKING and BOILING destroys psilocybin. This isn't opinion, its scientific fact.
link (http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?postid=603935#post603935)
Does Thor_Shroom's statement contradict that of the Erowid passage? Well, I guess it depends on how one would interpret it. Personally, I see it as a blanket statement which implies that heating "the mushroom" will always significantly reduce potency, while Erowid is a bit more specific and claims that with relatively psilocybin-rich Psilocybe cubensis, "the hotter the water, the better," but with some relatively psilocin-rich strains, such as Psilocybe cyanescens, boiling water will quickly reduce the potency due to rapid degradation of their more abundant (and fragile) psilocin content. To clarify, psilocin is a psychoactive compound that is formed as psilocybin is dephosphorylated during digestion (link - see p. 85 (http://www.hoboes.com/html/Politics/Prohibition/Notes/Hallucinogens.html#Heading5)). This would explain varying degrees of heat sensitivity between Psilocybe strains-- each obviously contains a unique ratio of psilocybin to psilocin.


Erowid's summary of the chemical properties of psilocybin (from the Merck Index):
MELTING POINT 220-228° C (Crystals from boiling water)
MELTING POINT 185-195° C (Crystals from methanol)
link (Erowid Psilocybin Mushroom Vault : Chemistry) Just in case anyone's been poking around the Erowid chemistry vaults wondering why there are two listed melting points for psilocybin, I believe they're basically indicating the varying physical properties of two different crystal packing structures, (e.g. graphite and diamond are two different structures of carbon that have very different properties). There is probably a variety of reasons that would explain the differences between each of these structures; it might be that the higher temperature with water allows the substance to reorganize into a lower energy crystal lattice, that methanol is less likely to H-bond around the amine so it packs a certain way... people usually explain the structure they get after they know what they have, but since we don't have any crystal structures to look at, it seems kind of pointless to dwell. [/tangent]


And DrShaman, don't worry, I'm not going to barge into your thread like this without at least addressing your initial question:
I am considering to dry the shrooms at a very low temperature (50 degrees). Could this damage the [psilocybin/psilocin]?
As far as I know, the answer to this question is simply "no." Cold temperatures will reduce vibrations, but there shouldn't be any decomposition. Technically, if you got it cold enough, you could get all of the atoms to stop moving at zero K, but if you're able to accomplish that, you're probably due a Nobel Prize, as 4K is pretty much the limit right now... and even at that point, you have to specially stimulate a molecule with lasers to get it to release heat and not reabsorb it so that it gets depleted of energy. Not really the kind of thing you can achieve in a fucking Maytag.

Maybe I'll add some more shit to this tomorrow, but right now I'm going to bed. If anyone wants to add anything... arguments, analyses, corrections, whatever... I'd enjoy reading them.

what i find interesting is that SWIM has also used really hot water(boiling) to make mushroom tea..and has had wonderful results...
 
Jorkest said:
and also..what happens to the molecule when the psilocybin and psilocin oxidize? and why does this then make it inactive? because doesnt dmt n-oxide have some effects? 69ron has posted that SWIThem prefers dmt n-oxide sometimes because it has slightly smoother perhaps..somebody correct me if im wrong on that one...
There are many ways in which a substance can oxidise. Oxidation is such a generic term, it does not mean that psilocin oxidises to its respective n-oxide.

Many people speculate that the bluing of aged mushrooms or mushrooms dried under hot conditions is some form of oxidised psilocin. This is speculative, dunno if someone has seen pure psilocin turning blue by time.,,,

...but on the other hand, look at the structure of the indigo dye, a blue dye. Hmmmmm....
 
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