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Pure white mescaline HCl from cactus using d-limonene (orange oil)

Migrated topic.
Swims friend began the process last night, he didnt have a coffee press so he squeezed out the limonene with a cheese cloth, but as soon as it was squeezed out SWIM noticed a cloudy layer settling below the limonene, could it be possible this was water from the cactus mix (maybe he squeezeed too much?), and what implications will this have on the extraction? Swim separated it out (the cloudy layer) and put it back into the cactus mix with some more limonene. When he added the dilute hcl mix to the first pull of limonene the hcl instantly clouded up, quite heavily it didnt look clear at all. Swim pulled this out with a turkey baster and put it in a glass dish, what looks like salt is stuck to the sides of the baster and all through the glass dish, is this a good sign? The next HCL pull was less cloudy, the third almost clear and the 4th completely clear.

To get his %10 HCL mix SWIM took 50ml of %35 HCL and added about 150ml water (in theory making it slightly less than a %10 solution) he then used 5ml of this with 20ml water for each pull.

Sound about right? Its currently still drying so Swim isnt sure on yields yet but is hoping the salty residue was a good sign
 
if wasn't too much water added /the mixture is wet, not watery/ it's impossible to squeeze out any water from the mixture. what looked like salt was emulsion. you shuld leave it for a while to clear that. both the limo and water should be "clear". pictures can be found in the sister topic
 
Can SWIM use this Tek for Dried Chips that are Green and White Tissue of Bridgesii (also with the Outer Waxy Skin) with Cores removed -
Or will they make Problems ?
 
rTyler said:
if wasn't too much water added /the mixture is wet, not watery/ it's impossible to squeeze out any water from the mixture. what looked like salt was emulsion. you shuld leave it for a while to clear that. both the limo and water should be "clear". pictures can be found in the sister topic
Click to expand...

SWIM did wonder if it was an emulsion, but it didnt clear, it more 'settled' onto the bottom of the hcl. SWIM pulled it all out (along with the 2 other pulls), dried it and the resulting dried crystals look like whats to be expected, clear in the middle of the dish moving to darker orange areas around the sides, SWIM is beginning to think what he saw was alkaloids, is that right 69ron or are the alkaloids invisible to the naked eye while in the hcl?

It happened again with the first hcl pull from the second limo soak, straight away white salt started raining out of the hcl and settling onto the bottom of the jar till there was a thick pile of it. The next hcl pull had less and the third clear.


edit...... How long did it take for the emulsion to clear? if that is indeed what it is, would additional water help? And when it clears does the cloudy layer just go back into the dlimo, or does it sit between the two layers?
 
antichode said:
To get his %10 HCL mix SWIM took 50ml of %35 HCL and added about 150ml water (in theory making it slightly less than a %10 solution) he then used 5ml of this with 20ml water for each pull.
Click to expand...

Can anyone verify for SWIM if his calculations are correct here? He's guessing the HCL solution is the reason for the precipitates on the first pull from the limo, is it too strong?
 
Another Question: My Hydrochloric Acid says " <24% "
I dont know how i should dillute it now , do you think i can use it anyway 69ron ?
 
mori said:
24% is very strong. Too strong. reread my posts on the math of dilution (in this thread)
Click to expand...
I know it is too strong but the label reads " <24% " So i think the percentage is somewhere under 24% but i dont know where exactly - why i cant exactly know how to dillute this stuff.
Only possibility is a ph-meter ?
 
Observant said:
mori said:
24% is very strong. Too strong. reread my posts on the math of dilution (in this thread)
Click to expand...
I know it is too strong but the label reads " <24% " So i think the percentage is somewhere under 24% but i dont know where exactly - why i cant exactly know how to dillute this stuff.
Only possibility is a ph-meter ?
Click to expand...

Swims HCL was %28-%38... Seems like a huge variation in the amount, very annoying that they can't be more precise... Just go with the largest amount listed and make up a %10 solution from that, if its too weak you'll just have to do more pulls.
 
Swim is on his 4th extraction now and has tried a few things to stop those damn precipitates forming when HCL is added. He has even gone as low as adding 1ml (%10 hcl solution) to 30 ml of water and still upon agitation the precipitates clog up the water layer.

A warm water bath seems to dissolve the precipitates into the water layer, so this isnt the best solution. He has tried to filter them out but they are a pain, they clog up the filter quickly. Cotton wool in a funnel is the best way but the cotton wool holds on to a lot of water, and if you squeeze it, the precipitates come through (slightly)

Swims question is this, since he has tried very dilute HCL solutions with no joy, can he just rinse the precipitates with some more water and add that to the final washes? Or will mescaline hcl be trapped in with these precipitates?

Also, if all else fails, will it be ok to evap everything (water and precipitates) then wash in acetone and ipa? Will this get rid of the precipitate junk?

edit.... And a big thankyou to everyone that has helped SWIM get this far, he is averaging a %1.4 yield now and is very happy with that.
 
antichode said:
Swim is on his 4th extraction now and has tried a few things to stop those damn precipitates forming when HCL is added. He has even gone as low as adding 1ml (%10 hcl solution) to 30 ml of water and still upon agitation the precipitates clog up the water layer.

A warm water bath seems to dissolve the precipitates into the water layer, so this isnt the best solution. He has tried to filter them out but they are a pain, they clog up the filter quickly. Cotton wool in a funnel is the best way but the cotton wool holds on to a lot of water, and if you squeeze it, the precipitates come through (slightly)

Swims question is this, since he has tried very dilute HCL solutions with no joy, can he just rinse the precipitates with some more water and add that to the final washes? Or will mescaline hcl be trapped in with these precipitates?

Also, if all else fails, will it be ok to evap everything (water and precipitates) then wash in acetone and ipa? Will this get rid of the precipitate junk?

edit.... And a big thankyou to everyone that has helped SWIM get this far, he is averaging a %1.4 yield now and is very happy with that.
Click to expand...

SWIM dried a little of the precipitates before and it contained mescaline HCl. He now uses vinegar (and sometimes gets them with that too) and converts it to HCl. No matter how diluted the HCl solution was he just couldn't use it. It's something in the limonene, because he only gets them at the first mix.
 
hmm, interesting. SWIMS limonene is of very good quality, %100 limonene. For his latest extraction he did all his pulls and put them (precipitates and all) into a nice tall and thin glass. After about 24hrs it seperates to three layers, hcl on the bottom precipitates in the middle and some limonene on the top... After this time its much easier to get rid of the junk and it seems there is no longer any water stuck in the precipitates. SWIM doubts there is any mesc in the precipitates after its properly seperated, perhaps the mesc you noticed was in water clinging to the precipitates?
 
If SWIY is in the UK he probably buys the limonene from the same place as SWIM. Theres only one shop where limonene is at an acceptable price. That limonene is not 100%, it just not available anywhere in that purity. I tried to get information about the real purity but had no answer.

SWIM's pretty sure the precips contain a considerable ammount of mescaline, he dropped a little onto a hot surface and there was more there than it should be in the same ammount of water. Also they seem to dissolve into the water and mesc HCl can't dissolve in limonene.

It is just guessing but SWIM's playing safe and rather not loose any yield if he can bring these nasties back to solution ;)
 
No SWIM is in the South Pacific and has been assured that his limonene is %100.

Swim decided to leave the precipitates even longer and when he went to see the layers this morning (72 hours later). There are now only two layers, the water and the limonene. The water layer has stayed the same level, but the limonene layer has grown. So the precipitates have effectively moved back into the limonene. SWIM hasnt tested fate and shaken it back up again ;) he will just seperate and continue as per from here
 
antichode said:
No SWIM is in the South Pacific and has been assured that his limonene is %100.
Click to expand...

although SWIM doesnt have any way to test this, so SWIY may be right. SWIM just has to take his suppliers word for it
 
antichode said:
Swim decided to leave the precipitates even longer and when he went to see the layers this morning (72 hours later). There are now only two layers, the water and the limonene. The water layer has stayed the same level, but the limonene layer has grown. So the precipitates have effectively moved back into the limonene. SWIM hasnt tested fate and shaken it back up again ;) he will just seperate and continue as per from here
Click to expand...

It might be that the limonene realy is 100%; SWIM's limonene was advertised as 100% he just found it hard to believe as he never heard about limonene available that pure. That's why I thought SWIY has bought the limonene at the same place as him. It seems that no one else is having the same problem and they usualy use limonene less pure (?)

SWIM has done an extraction recently where he had the precips again. He finished it with using only pure water and it pulled a lot of it floating in the limonene. He waited till they dissolved and is going to evap this water to see if it contains mescaline.
 
adding more water help's as the precips dont seem to be readily soluble in water or limo (the later only over long periods of time, and the former with heat). Its as tho they get stuck together with air bubbles in the water.

Swim's found pulling with a bit more water and collecting each pull in a jar, do this for each pull from each limo soak. Then leave it for a day or two, its then super easy to separate and evap.
 
Does it matter which d-limonene swim gets? The supplier swim found has a food grade that is 95.0% pure and a High purity grade that is 98.0% pure.
 
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