• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

Q21Q21 Lime+Vinegar Tek Questions

aethereon

aethereon

Established member
So if I understand correctly, going the part 1 route results in a liquid final product? I can understand not getting crystals withouteth the use of naptha, but couldn't the end result just be condensed into some sort of red rosin or resin type substance? I'm not overly familiar with "JimJam" although I have had some experience with some 'full spectrum' acacia and mimosa extracts which were nice, and which is something I'd be happy to end up with but the tek makes it sound like you need to go to tincture?
Second question is i found a huge bag of hydrated lime at a hardware store and this is the cheapest I've seen it so far but the MSDS says something about Quartz, I guess Just sand really according to the CAS no, potentially making up 0.5-1.5% of the mix... is this something to avoid? Otherwise I'll be paying 6-10X the amount but I'm not sure if I really neeeeed a giant freakin' bag of lime either.... But yeah my guess is the quartz is fine but doesn't hurt to ask 🥹 thanks in advance my celestial fam
 

Q21Q21's Vinegar/Lime A/B Extraction Tek - DMT-Nexus Wiki

wiki.dmt-nexus.me wiki.dmt-nexus.me

You may have to be a little more specific about what you're planning to do since this will affect the outcome. It's also worth noting that extraction knowledge has move along a little in the dozen or so years since the development of q21q21's tek; this may expand your range of solvent choices at the very least (e.g. HIELO - DMT-Nexus Wiki ). DMT acetate will not form crystals - it evaporates down to an oily goo, as does DMT citrate. The fumarate is about the only thing that crystallises relatively easily, besides purified freebase freeze-precipitated from naphtha.

Your hardware store lime sounds like it's intended for use in mortar. To that end, you might want to consider what its heavy metals analysis might look like as this appears not to be something intended for consumption. Linking to the SDS would be helpful here. The silica itself is practically neutral from the point of view of extraction, but a product intended for consumption such as pickling lime, or the aquarium additive "Kalkwasser" should both be of an assured quality since one is food grade and the other is made for fish to swim in. While heavy metals shouldn't be significantly soluble in the non-polar solvent, lime particles do often get carried over during the extraction process. This at least necessitates a settling period before the vinegar pulls (being good practice anyhow). I'd be inclined to go for a higher quality product, since you won't be needing that much of it.
 
Hmm yes I suppose I could have easily linked it before... https://dap.ca/media/6843/7971565english.pdf

I do like the idea of this 'screaming deal' cause basically I can get about ten times the amount for the same price as I would to buy from "Lord SlurmAzon Bezosian" granted although it's not 'food safe.' On the one hand I can't see anything in the SDS about heavy metals but on the other hand I would tend to trust like you said the food safe to be generally more stringent... Potentially there could be higher 'trace amounts' in the stuff not meant for human consumption... I suppose where I get the lime from in the end will have to be a judgement call on my behalf. The one review on the hardware store stuff is making it sound even more appealing "The most incredible hydrated lime I’ve ever seen. Stunning, really." I will see if I can find a heavy metals analysis but also it is intended for landscape garden use so I'd hope heavy metals would be non-existent but of course without some sort of HM analysis it's probably hard to say.

I guess I left out the having already acquired limonene and wanting to use that, somehow always felt drawn to it. The dmt I had before had a tinge of 'citruisy' flavour tinge to it and not sure if that's where the compulsion came from but it's what I have so far. I'm just looking to get something of a solid product(freebase?) to vape in the volcano or gvg and/or maybe make some pharmahuasca with. Reading Q21Q21 tek it sounded like would end up with some sort of liquid as an end product if choosing to use d-limonene and while he talks about preparing this tincture for vaping it's like I'd rater avoid that step if possible, are there any newer teks involving d-limonene? If it wasn't apparent it's my first time actually DIY'ing my spice... extracted harmalas a couple but it's time I undertook the task 👨‍🔬
 
Last edited:
Sounds like you're on track and just need to get focussed on exactly how you're going to proceed. I found limonene to be a bit fiddly but I think it could have been a bit lacking on the purity side. Hence it's advisable to use only the highest purity stuff. Citrus terpenes have too much reactive stuff in, and this compounds how limonene itself isn't wholly inert. Ending up with too much carvone in your product, with its spearmint/caraway aroma, can get annoying!

It should be straightforward enough to get the acetate goo, and once you've got the crude material there are several routes for purifying it further. This is where having a good grasp of the principles of acid/base extraction comes in useful. You can then decide what end goal you're aiming for and proceed accordingly.

For example, perhaps you'd prefer freebase over acetate goo, but maybe you're not that bothered about having perfect white crystals. In that case you could make the freebase by mixing the acetate to a paste with a pinch of sodium carbonate, drying it out thoroughly and pulling from the powder with acetone. Evaporate the acetone to recover freebase goo.

That's just one of the nearly countless permutations available.

How was the harmala extraction for you?
 
Hm, yes regarding the last bit you said, recover freebase goo? But no crystals from Acetone? Only Crystals from Naptha?

I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions! The Harmala extraction was okay, I did the Tao of Rue method. First time the crystals were amazing, I think they were as pure as could be completely yellow/fluoresced under UV intensely. Second time round, crystals were much less defined, and seemed to have some sort of brownish residue on them that didn't seem to go away. Eventually I just settled on a more browned and less pure product although I felt like the final yield was much higher even taking into account the lessened purity. I asked and someone said it wasn't a big deal if I had done 2/3 'cycles' the harmalas should be pure enough at that point and I never experienced any ill effects - other than the taste oh god. The only thing I can think of that I did differently was use a different type of salt, first time it was Sea Salt secont time it was more of a pickling salt, I thought the 'purer pickling salt' would result in a better/more end product but it didn't seem to be the case, rather the opposite unless it was some other factor.

Also I was further scrutinizing my hardware store hydrated lime and noticed a huge thing I had overlooked. The SDS says it is composed of "calcium magnesium tetrahydroxide" which I thought was the same as just plain old "calcium hydroxide" but I guess they are actually two separate things!? Does anyone have any experience with calcium magnesium tetrahydroxide in place of 'regular' hydrated lime? Maybe I'll have to end up finding some from an aquarium place like you were saying after all.
 
Tryptamines are too soluble in most solvents too crystallise out nicely. The lower solubility in alkanes (naphtha) allows for a more orderly solidification to occur.


Harmalas do have a bit of a knack to them, their kind of simultaneously easy and difficult (from rue) depending on a bunch of things. Looks like you've encountered the mysterious 'harmala crud' that's bugged me on my last attempt. It's high time I had another go at it. Your comment about sea salt makes me wonder if calcium chloride would effect a Manske-type precipitation (I can foresee a number of possible difficulties though). I got reasonable results using rock salt, but I did filter out some black sandy material from the brine before mixing it with the harmala acetate solution. Was your pickling salt definitely free from anti-caking agent? That could contribute to brown gunk if it was present, depending on the substance used. Regarding yield, were the two extractions from the same batch of seeds? Otherwise it's not really a valid comparison. My most recent batch of seeds seems significantly more potent than the last lot.

It appears your lime is actually made from dolomite; "calcium magnesium tetrahydroxide " is a bit of a made up name - it's just a mixture of calcium hydroxide and magnesium hydroxide. Magnesium hydroxide sort of works as a base in some circumstances (tannin precipitation, for example) but its low solubility would likely make it unsuitable for our intended purpose if it was on its own (although you never know...) In the combination with calcium hydroxide it should be effective enough - in fact I'd be interested to know how it works out, but maybe you'd prefer not to get experimental on your first extraction.
 
Transform said:
Tryptamines are too soluble in most solvents too crystallise out nicely. The lower solubility in alkanes (naphtha) allows for a more orderly solidification to occur.


Harmalas do have a bit of a knack to them, their kind of simultaneously easy and difficult (from rue) depending on a bunch of things. Looks like you've encountered the mysterious 'harmala crud' that's bugged me on my last attempt. It's high time I had another go at it. Your comment about sea salt makes me wonder if calcium chloride would effect a Manske-type precipitation (I can foresee a number of possible difficulties though). I got reasonable results using rock salt, but I did filter out some black sandy material from the brine before mixing it with the harmala acetate solution. Was your pickling salt definitely free from anti-caking agent? That could contribute to brown gunk if it was present, depending on the substance used. Regarding yield, were the two extractions from the same batch of seeds? Otherwise it's not really a valid comparison. My most recent batch of seeds seems significantly more potent than the last lot.

It appears your lime is actually made from dolomite; "calcium magnesium tetrahydroxide " is a bit of a made up name - it's just a mixture of calcium hydroxide and magnesium hydroxide. Magnesium hydroxide sort of works as a base in some circumstances (tannin precipitation, for example) but its low solubility would likely make it unsuitable for our intended purpose if it was on its own (although you never know...) In the combination with calcium hydroxide it should be effective enough - in fact I'd be interested to know how it works out, but maybe you'd prefer not to get experimental on your first extraction.
Click to expand...

As far as I know, the salt should have been free of any additives. I noticed I still have some, next time I pull it out I'll double check the label but I remember being concerned about purity (even wondering about the sea salt) and then being surprised the second time. Although yield wise I feel it was more substantial, even with it being 'cruddy' I felt like it went a long way, and also yes it was the same batch of seeds, which I still have a bit left over so we'll see how the third time goes!

I would probably just go with 'regular calcium hydroxide for the first times round yes, although I am not averse to experimentation for sure :) Once I get a feel for it... I guess as far as I can tell there are SyZyGyPSy, Amor Fati and Q21Q21 teks involving limonene, anyone having some reccomendations for a first timer? My glass/labware collection is fairly minimal too :S
 
Back
Top Bottom