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Quest for most potent cactus - from seeds with help of pereskiopsis grafting

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pete666 said:
downwardsfromzero said:
I have one like this too. It took me eight years to get it to root.
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Are you serious downwardsfromzero? It had to dry off by that time, no?
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I am entirely serious. It was heavily crusted which contributed both to its slow root development and its ability to remain hydrated. I was given it when my son was one year old and it finally rooted last year when he was nine. In between it was rested in damp sand and damp compost (but only after I'd kept it on a shelf for 2 years) so it may well have absorbed some water through its skin.

To be fair, it may have started developing the first hint of a root the previous year, but still - it's been pretty tenacious and I'd be interested to see how it shapes up potency-wise.

PS I'm loving all the great information that has been discussed in this thread!
 
Grey Fox said:
Everyone will have to find the conditions and microclimates that work best for their location. Regarding CAM I think that the 70F cut off may not be totally accurate. If we look at the monthly averages for a city like Phoenix we see that 4 months out of the year the average low temps are above 70F.


And yet many different kinds of cacti are grown there and thrive, especially when irrigated and fed in landscape settings. I find it hard to believe that for the 4 summer months those cacti are unable to photosynthesize, even though they are growing and flourishing in people's yards during that time, not to mention that cacti grow in the wild all around that area.
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I was never referring to ALL cactus or to cactus that are native to the Phoenix area. The 70 degrees that I read about was referring to South American mountain cactus that thrive in a very specific climate where it is cool year round and they don't require shade to stay green in their natural environment where they reach 20 feet tall. As already discussed, arid desert and native Southwest lowland cactus species evolved under very different conditions and metabolize in a much higher temperature range. Most South American Trichs (except for PC) aren't versatile as a general landscaping cactus in the desert southwest.

The following study demonstrated that with increasing night temperature, CO2 exchange rate and organic acid accumulation was decreased for 2 CAM species, and one species completely lost nocturnal CO2 uptake under a high night temperature:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1626/pps.9.10



I agree with coAsTal, if you would like to continue discussing this topic we should open a new thread.
 
I dont really need to start another thread in order to establish that CAM photosynthesis does not cause sunburn in greenhouses, etc, etc.

Pete I'm sorry to be apologizing a second time for taking up too much space in your thread. It wont happen again. I wish you all the best with your project.
 
Grey Fox said:
Pete I'm sorry to be apologizing a second time for taking up too much space in your thread. It wont happen again. I wish you all the best with your project.
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Cheers mate.
No prob at all Fox, I don't consider it my thread. No need to create another one.
 
These double areole to top grafts seem to be the best way of grafting of tricho to the peres. I did two of them and they both have taken the best.
 
I wish I could do that, but my climate is too cold for pereskiopsis, while being borderline mild enough for pachanoi, peruvianus and bridgesii.
 
pete666 said:
These double areole to top grafts seem to be the best way of grafting of tricho to the peres. I did two of them and they both have taken the best.
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Masterful work, Pete-- my peres is almost set up well enough that I will begin my charter graft within the week, and it will be thanks to you and our deeply missed friend Wakinyan (pray he is well, wherever he has gone)
 
Jagube said:
I wish I could do that, but my climate is too cold for pereskiopsis, while being borderline mild enough for pachanoi, peruvianus and bridgesii.
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It is fun. I like these plants, their will to grow is awesome!
 
Jagube said:
Masterful work, Pete-- my peres is almost set up well enough that I will begin my charter graft within the week, and it will be thanks to you and our deeply missed friend Wakinyan (pray he is well, wherever he has gone)
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Thanks coAsTal, I was missing this piece in my puzzle. Slab grafts allowed to make about 15-20 grafts from one 160g specimen, but slab grafts could be only done with tricho rootstock, not directly with peres. And the availability of rootstocks made of peres with tricho is limited. The only way how I can make them is grafting seedlings. But once I get the specimen with desired potency, there is no need to graft seedlings. So the question was : how to graft directly to peres?

I hope you will keep us informed about your grafting adventures!

And Wakinyan ... yes. He is a real grafting guru, I would not be hesitant to call him a grafting legend. If there is anything I know about grafting, it is from him and his advices found around the internet. I hope he is doing well too...
 
Pete, would love to see some updated pics of your graft work-- I am in the process of moving so I have decided to delay my beginning grafting efforts until I get everything moved and settled into a new place.
I was afraid of any possible trauma during the move harming the stock or scions if I started here. I'm hoping to get going in about 2 weeks time.
It isn't a bad thing though, because my peres have been continually growing like the weeds they are-- most of the little 5-6" runts I started with have become strong, well-rooted plants. Some that I put in larger pots are foot tall monsters-- which I plan on halving and re-rooting once in the new place and keeping the train of propagation stock choo-choo-ing through the winter.
 
coAsTal, sorry to have to say that, but my life situation has changed significantly and I had to cancel all my efforts in the "entheogen area".
Needless to say how hard this is for me, I have invested a lot of time, effort and money and now simply have to let it go. But this is how life sometimes is...

Regarding last grafting attempts ... 100% of single areolas grafted to the top of another tricho have taken. 100% of double areolas grafted to the top of peres have taken - this is the suggested way. Only one areola grafted to peres areola has taken - this is the least suggested way.
 
I have been away from this thread. A death in the family and the resulting stress caused some health issues. Feeling better now and cleared to go back to normal routine. Here are some notes from while I was away:

Pete, sorry to hear you have to abandon this project! I hope you can at least passively grow some of your favorite cacti. Life happens.

Regarding the purpose of mescaline in cacti: It appears that the purpose may be simply as an alkaloid base to bind to malic acid in order to maintain proper pH. In my research I have not found any free malic acid present in the cactus flesh, only malic acid bound to mescaline as mescaline malate. Free malic acid would probably make the pH of the cactus flesh too acidic so an alkaloid is needed to bind to and neutralize the malic acid until the cactus needs it. This would explain why cacti are more potent in the winter and after curing in the dark for a few months. During these cool and dark times, the cactus is accumulating the malic acid it needs for respiration. During this time mescaline content is rising simultaneously; there appears to be a direct connection between the amount of malic acid accumulated and the amount of mescaline created to bind to the malic acid, since neither of these compounds are found in cactus flesh alone, only bound to each other. Of course the question remains why this particular alkaloid is produced and not some other, non-active alkaloid. Perhaps animals don't like tripping. :)

Regarding the theory that small areoles correspond to higher potency. I don't think there is a direct correlation beyond happenstance. The majority of the trichs have small areoles so just by the numbers you are going to run into potent strains that mostly have small areoles. Generally speaking any bridgesii or scop that you come across is going to be potent and they all have small areoles; there are no bridgeii or scop with large areoles to even compare to.
There was an article in the June 2016 issue of Dragibus on Trichocereus potency that discusses various strains. In the article, they state that the originally described fat blue peruvianus with large areoles that comes from the Matucana region is consistently potent. My research confirms this and the beautiful blue Matucana Peruvian Torch are quite popular among entheogenic cacti enthusiasts. There are even a couple of vendors in Matucana that sell the seeds and dried cactus flesh of these large areole cacti. I won't mention the vendor but the seeds they sell are quite popular and well known for producing fat blue large areole offspring that are potent. I have grown these seeds and they are true to type.

There is another strain called Sharxx Blue that is in very high demand among enthusiasts and not only because of its beauty but because of its high potency. A cutting of Sharxx Blue recently went for $350 at auction in one of the groups. Sharxx Blue is another Matucana type peruvianus with large areoles that made its way to Australia and is now occasionally offered in USA. Here is a photo of one.
 

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There certainly are some Peruvianus that are potent, specifically those from the Matucana area. Unfortunately there are also very many that are weak. It is not a consistent species at all, and that is well known.

A large part of the reason that Sharxx Blue is so highly sought after is because of its appearance. It is the same clone as the Dawsons Peruvianus, but rebranded with a name that sells for more. Its a beautiful plant.

I already told Pete that I was done commenting in this thread, and I really dont want to start a new thread about this topic. But if you want to start a thread about phenotypes and potency then we can talk more about it there. Or you can send me a message. I dont have anything else to say about it here.
 
I'm not interested either in starting a new thread or going into a lengthy discussion about it. All I can tell you is that I have tested a number of large areole trichos that have confirmation as potent, and some small areole trichos have tested inactive, so I just don't believe that areole size in and of itself is a reliable indicator of potency.

Yes it's true that the peruvianus species is more variable than bridgesii for instance but many peruvianus strains have small areoles so I don't see any cause and effect here.

I have some unnamed frosted blue peruvians in my collection that are just as beautiful as Sharxx, they just don't have a backstory, a fancy name and mystique behind them. I think people are crazy to pay $350 for a Sharxx but hey hype sells.

Pete has abandoned the project so as I see it people are free to continue this thread as they see fit.
 
Here's a pic of my first grafting efforts onto Pereskiopsis-- let me know what you think!
 

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