Question about naptha and residual freezer smell/other quick extraction question

[dreamingstill]

Hi all, so recently I acquired some MHRB (I think. It looks like it and was definitely active when I made ayahuasca with it) and have an opportunity to extract some dmt from it.

I've talked about this with my girlfriend and she's perfectly fine with me extracting it as long as there isn't a smell left over and that none of the food tastes like naptha.

So what would the best way of doing this be? I usually do q21's tek when I'm able to get MHRB since ACRB turns into gunk with that one, and the last step is a naptha pull into the freezer.

The two methods I'm thinking about doing are either 1) Pouring the naptha into the evap dish and letting some evap before throwing in the freezer or 2) Wrapping it with seran wrap a few times so it's as air-tight as possible then carefully putting it into a freezer bag. Another thing I read was that putting an open cup of baking soda in the freezer can help, if not I can just unplug it and leave it open for a day or two until it airs out.

I guess my question about the second method is that will the DMT still freeze-precip and cling to the glass if it's as air-tight as possible? I've only done extractions with leaving it uncovered, and I'm worried about waiting to let some naptha evaporate beforehand because I've had a few times where that ended up yielding nothing or very sparse crystals.

Also, is there a set amount of time to wait between pulls? I have 6 pyrex dishes that would work for evaporation dishes, and I'm half-tempted to just do 6 pulls one after the other, since in the past I would do one or two pulls then leave the bark-mix sealed for a week or two before pulling again. Are there any advantages/disadvantages to either method?

Thanks

 

[Jees]

He uses no dishes lately, but a small cone like tapered drinking glass. The tapered form allows for cleaning it out better, easier that straight walls.
Closing with a silicon cap, but few seran wrap is same.
It would still give a smell like that.
But then he puts the glass in a food freezing bag zip lock. --> Bybye smell :thumb_up:

 

[pitubo]

Just use one of those glass jars that food comes in, like such:

With the lid firmly on, there will be no smells or spills in the freezer.

Don't worry about getting the precipitated crystals out (it isn't very hard btw.) Simply decant the cold naphtha leftover from freeze precipitation. Let the jar warm up to room temperature with the lid on again, so you don't get any condensate inside. Then add a little fresh naphtha and warm the jar in a warm water bath to redissolve the crystals. Add the minimum amount of hot naphtha needed to dissolve the crystals and quickly, but carefully, decant it into a clean smaller container that can comfortably hold the hot naphtha loaded with spice. Let this cool slowly and either let the naphtha evaporate in a well ventilated place, or refreeze.

 

[dreamingstill]

Just use one of those glass jars that food comes in, like such:

With the lid firmly on, there will be no smells or spills in the freezer.

Don't worry about getting the precipitated crystals out (it isn't very hard btw.) Simply decant the cold naphtha leftover from freeze precipitation. Let the jar warm up to room temperature with the lid on again, so you don't get any condensate inside. Then add a little fresh naphtha and warm the jar in a warm water bath to redissolve the crystals. Add the minimum amount of hot naphtha needed to dissolve the crystals and quickly, but carefully, decant it into a clean smaller container that can comfortably hold the hot naphtha loaded with spice. Let this cool slowly and either let the naphtha evaporate in a well ventilated place, or refreeze.

Would a standard mason jar do the trick?

Also, just so I get everything right (sorry if I'm being redundant at all, just want to make sure I'm on point)
1) Do the regular naptha pull with the bark mix
2) Pour into the jar, cover the lid
3) put in the freezer for ~12 hours
4) take out of the freezer, bring to room temp
5) remove the lid, pour off excess naptha, let dry
6) add smaller amount of warm naptha, swish around to get as much xtal as possible
7) pour that naptha into an evap dish that's easier to scrape
8 ) let that evaporate fully
9) scrape as usual

?

I guess my only question is would the warm naptha damage the xtals in any way? Also, is re-freezing the same as doing re-crystaling where it would form larger, more manageable crystals?

Oh, and when I pour the warm naptha from the initial pull, should I wait for that to cool down to room temperature before covering it with the lid and putting it into the freezer? Just wondering because I think capping it right away with the warm naptha will cause condensation if it's put in the freezer, but I might be wrong.

@Jees - I have two types of pyrex dishes, ones more of a cake-style dish where the walls are basically straight up and the other is more of a casserol dish where they're slanted (kind of like a skateboard pool where it's curved before pointing straight up if that makes sense), would the slanted one be more ideal?

 

[pitubo]

Also, just so I get everything right (sorry if I'm being redundant at all, just want to make sure I'm on point)
1) Do the regular naptha pull with the bark mix
2) Pour into the jar, cover the lid
3) put in the freezer for ~12 hours
4) take out of the freezer, bring to room temp

No, bring out of the freezer and immediately pour off the naphtha, before it warms up. Otherwise, some of the dmt would redissolve in the warming up naphtha. Then quickly put the lid back on and let the closed jar with dmt crystals warm up to room temperature. Any condensate formed on the outside of the jar can be wiped off easily.

6) add smaller amount of warm naptha, swish around to get as much xtal as possible
7) pour that naptha into an evap dish that's easier to scrape
8 ) let that evaporate fully
9) scrape as usual

If your naphtha is not pure enough for full evaporation (which would concentrated any impurities from dirty naphtha onto the dmt), you can also use freeze precipitation a second time instead. In my experience, it isn't hard to get the crystals out of jars.

If you don't want to recrystallize, you can skip steps 6 to 9. Simply remove the lid from the jar once it is no longer cold and let the last bits of naphtha evaporate. You'll be surprized how much there still is after pouring off the cold naphtha! It may even be enough to redissolve significant amounts of dmt crystals. Don't worry about that, they'll come back when the naphtha evaporates.

If you want to minimize the amount of naphtha that needs to be evaporated, a neat trick is to close the jar after pouring off the cold naphtha and putting the jar back in the freezer upside down. After 15 minutes, most of the naphtha will have collected onto the cap of the jar. Take the jar out of the freezer again while keeping it upside down and carefully open the lid a bit to allow the naphtha to drain. Then close the jar again and let it warm up in upright position before opening it up to let the last bits of naphtha evaporate.

I guess my only question is would the warm naptha damage the xtals in any way? Also, is re-freezing the same as doing re-crystaling where it would form larger, more manageable crystals?

Warm naphtha will not damage the dmt molecules. It will redissolve the crystals, but not any impurities that may have come over during the initial naphtha pulls from the basified plant matter. When you transfer the redissolved dmt into a new container, be careful not to also transfer the undissolved impurities, that would defeat the purpose of the recrystallization.

Redissolving in fresh solvent and reprecipitating is recrystallization. The type and size of crystals you will get depends on the conditions during the recrystallization. A slow process will favor the growth of larger crystals.

Oh, and when I pour the warm naptha from the initial pull, should I wait for that to cool down to room temperature before covering it with the lid and putting it into the freezer? Just wondering because I think capping it right away with the warm naptha will cause condensation if it's put in the freezer, but I might be wrong.

Your freezer has to do a lot more work if it has to cool warm naphtha. So, with energy conservation in mind, letting it cool down first is better. Putting a hot glass jar in a very cold freezer could also crack the glass due to the temperature shock.

Condensation is not an issue here, it only happens when a relatively cold object is placed in an environment with a relatively high humidity. That is why you should keep the jar capped (except when pouring off the naphtha) while it is still ice cold at step 4. The inside of your freezer has a very low humidity and you will be putting a relatively warm object into it.

 

[dreamingstill]

Thanks for the reply! I learned a lot with it.

Would it be a good idea to allow some of the naptha to evaporate before putting it into the freezer the first time? Just by leaving the lid of the jar off after I pour it, this way it can cool down a little bit before hand. Will I lose anything/would any dmt evaporate by doing that? Or would it just make the remaining naptha more saturated before freeze-precipitating?

Also, if I'm using re-warmed naptha to remove the crystals from the jar (it seems strenuous to scrape them), can I just use a double boiler method using warm water surrounding the jar and then pour it into a more suitable container to scrape from? Or would using something like rubbing alcohol be more effective at dissolving (Or would this add too many impurities/variables?)?

This is kinda going back to the initial pull steps, but would it be better to pre-warm the naptha before extracting the dmt from the bark? What I normally do is put the glass bowl of bark into a larger glass bowl and fill that one with boiling water before pouring the naptha into the mix. One idea I had was to warm the naptha with a similar method, but still warm the bark. Or would doing that be redundant?

And while I'm thinking about the freezer step, is it even necessary, or can I just do the naptha pull and allow that to evaporate? Would I still end up with dmt, but a little bit less "formed" so to speak?

Sorry to keep throwing questions out there and about the disorganized nature of my posts (I need to get them typed before I lose them ), but they just keep popping up as I read more about extraction methods.

 

[cy6nu5]

Spill it all over the place so it gets really good and... what's that?

Oh you DON'T want it to smell. Yeah don't spill it. It makes your food taste like naphtha. It doesn't make a good seasoning

But seriously, it won't stink it up. If you're worried about it use a jar with a lid You'll be all right, brother.

Real simple process. If you're using ACRB, be warned, it will make two distinct things happen:
A You will get an egg drop soup up top that floats which would likely be 75-25 NMT to DMT.
The other stuff will stay suspended in solution or snow to the bottom and be the opposite concentrations or better.
Just clean it up later by re-dissolving in naphtha, then doing an acid-to-base purification and it will be white as snow

Safe Travels, Wanderer

 

[scaurus]

Just found this interesting page on growing crystals and thought we could put it to good use.

Tips and Tricks for the Lab: Growing Crystals Part 2 - ChemistryViews

Patience, luck, and no small amount of skill are required to grow the perfect crystal for X-ray diffraction. Maximize your chances of getting that elusive crystal

www.chemistryviews.org

I am actually struggling with the freeze precipitation I see a lot of crystal... but it melts so fast.