Questions about Ayahuasca (first timer)

[Istubar]

Hi nexians!

I've had good and beautiful experiences with my own extracted DMT, but because it was my first extraction, I got not so much spice and I'm run out of it since months. Right now I'm thinking about going one step far trying this magical brew (I know I can try smoking DMT with a MAOI, but IMHO it's not the same).

Before proceeding, I've search a lot of info on the forum, FAQ, wiki and more, but now it's time to make the proper questions to solve my doubts (I'm a newbie, sorry ).

1. The most popular ayahuasca analog seems to be harmala seeds + mimosa, but here in the forum many people uses banisteriopsis caapi as MAOI! There is a special reason for that? Less stomach pain and nausea or just to be more "traditional"? I've read that the harmalas are harder to drink and "maintain" in the stomach.

2. Which is the difference between red, yellow and white caapi wine? :surprised

3. After discovering the marvelous "The Herbal Percolator", I think this is the best way to prepare the brew for both things (maoi + dmt holding plant), but I need the confirmation if I understood it properly. After adding the water and filtering the powdered plants, then I need to reduce the liquid by evaporating or boiling it until I reach the desired amount, isn't it?

4. And regarding to that, It is necessary to acidify the water or not? Do I need to acidify MAOI and mimosa or only the MAOI? (I mean, this is only for better taste of the brew or it extracts more alcaloids and make the experience stronger? I've read both things! And seems also that in the amazonia don't acidify it)

5. About dosages, according to this, (confirmation) 10g of mimosa + 50g of caapi / 5g harmala it's okay? 5g of harmalas it's nearly the double and I'm not sure.

6. There are some kind of tricks to reduce nausea and stomach pain caused by the brew? I'm not afraid of puking, but of course if its able to avoid it...

7. I've also read that activated charcoal would be good (during the process of reduction) to remove the substance that could cause illnes, but it wouldn't remove the alkaloids too? :surprised

8. I saw a thread made by Gibran2, in which he did a extraction. But why? Which substance is extracted? I mean, you do that to take it orally in caps, smoke or mixed with water? Sadly I didn't understand that, but the idea of having 00 caps of MAOI and 00 caps of DMT holding plant (I mean, not pure freebase DMT crystals, but I already know that it works) sounds good for me! There is another thread similar to this here.

9. And finally the last question. Some nexians brews were stored in the fridge for a day, and then appeared some kind of sediment. Before all, I don't know if I need to store my brew in the frige, but in a positive case, should I remove them by filtering? Forget about them by shaking and drink together? No idea.

Thank you! :thumb_up:

 

[Agave]

6. There are some kind of tricks to reduce nausea and stomach pain caused by the brew? I'm not afraid of puking, but of course if its able to avoid it...

I'm sure you'll get plenty of answers to all of your questions but this one stands out for me. I kind of like to orally purge because it lessons the stomach upset for the rest of the ceremony and if I don't purge then it eventually means sitting on the toilet for much of the time. Well I now have a cure for that. I finally got around to drinking a cup of ginger tea beforehand and am happy to report that it works wonders. it completely stopped the rumbling flip flopping tummy troubles and allowed me to focus on the journey a lot more.

 

[Istubar]

Huh? That has sense! Thanks for your tip Agave. I'm sure I will try it.

 

[nen888]

..while MHRB+harmala is the most popular 'analogue', i would say true ayahuasca is the vine+p. viridis..

no need to acidify..

search the nexus ayahuasca sub-section..lots of advice..

the Purge is no big deal if you follow a sensible diet a day or so before ingesting..

good to have something 'neutral' in your stomach like rice, so there's something to purge..
the purge is part of the cleansing/healing process..not everyone gets nausea or purges..
.

 

[olympus mon]

If your not using caapi then traditionally speaking its not ayahuasca. Caapi is referred to as ayahuasca vine by the native peoples. When using rue as an maoi its is referred to as ruauasca or simply oral dmt.

The effects are virtually the same. Some say spiritually speaking there is a difference in the experience but there is no evidence to show this.

No need to acidify but i like to. Gibran did some extractions that proved acidified water was able to absorb more alkaloids but doing 3 washes or using the herbal purculator will make an equally potent brew.

Nausea is part of the experience but many people do not feel sick. For me unless its a very strong caapi brew or i drank a large amount nausea isn't an issue.

10g of mimosa would be very strong so prepare yourself for a big one if that's what you decide to drink.

 

[jamie]

dont drink 10g of mimosa..for many that is far too much.

Try 5g tops..even that is like a strong dose for me..6-7 was the highest I went and it felt like overkill. Thats my body..you dont know yet how sensitive you are so best to tread lightly at first.

 

[fairbanks]

Red an White b. caapi vine is on the more potent side, not recommended for beginners, used by shamans/experienced. Many people start with yellow vine. I did last week, amazing experience! Good luck & god speed Istubar!

 

[oden]

If using FB dmt afoaf uses a capsule, he gets fiber capsule's opens carefully and dumps fiber out.
puts dosage in capsule and with a pin pokes lil holes into it about 15 i think? and takes it about 20 min's in after aya brew..
works very well... goodluck on your journey... not sure if this is the type of info you wanted.

just one more option....

 

[fairbanks]

do you get less nausea with that method oden? just curious, wanna try it myself.

 

[Istubar]

Here are my progresses in the investigation, the revisions of my questions and the new ones:

1. I think I'm really interested in B. Caapi instead of Harmalas for the following reasons (If I'm not wrong); the MAOI effect are stronger with harmalas and it last for more time than Caapi. Caapi has his own psychoactive "power", while harmalas don't. Also the harmalas are a little bit hard to digest, while the Caapi seems easier to digest. Both of them are okay to make tea, isn't it? I mean, if I cannot find caapi or I choose harmalas, I have more options than eating them?

2. Don't think that I underrate your comment fairbanks! But is there any topic here speaking about the differences between each B. Caapi wine? I couldn't find any.

3-4. This seems to be already clear, but the acidification doubt remains. Why to acidify?. If I use the THB, there is no reason to acidify? If it would be better, Do I need to do that with both teas, or only the mimosa's tea?

5. I'm really confused about the doses. If I prepare my brew with the THB tek, do I really need to drink 50g or 70g tea of B. Capi? I thought it wouldn't be necessary! 25g of B. Caapi saturated tea won't work due to is not enough? Also, there is a rule of minimum-maximum amount of gram of B. Caapi/Harmala per kilo? (And so like mimosa too). Sadly I cannot find anything related to this.

6. Definitely seems that from all the tricks to reduce nausea and bad flavour, this are the two best ones; Using gelatine (here and here) or using eggs (here and here). IMO I find the eggs method easier, faster and cheaper! But here lies the question, This method is only "requeried" for mimosa or do I need to "do" it too with B. caapi/Harmala's tea?

Of course, besides that there is the possibility of the ginger tea (but instead of drinking a ginger tea before the brew, I'm thinking about adding tiny pieces of ginger during the mimosa reduction to improve the flavour and reduce the nause, maybe it works. What do you think about this?)

7. Still there, but It doesn't seems important, just curiosity.

8-9. Sadly I still having no idea about this extraction and what you have answered me. Maybe (surely) is my fault. This extracted sediments are just disposal and things to avoid or on the contrary, it would be a good idea to collect them separately or drink them?

Cheers and thanks! :thumb_up:

 

[fairbanks]

"2. Don't think that I underrate your comment fairbanks! But is there any topic here speaking about the differences between each B. Caapi wine? I couldn't find any."

Here's the right article for you homie: http://www.biopark.org/peru/huascaspecies.html

 

[jamie]

ive had yellow vine that is very strong at only 20g when I had been drinking 80-100g of white and yellow vine on a regular weekly basis..it is rare and I only ever had caapi like that once..I dont know what is up with that but it was at least 4x as strong as any other vine I had worked with and I assumed it was like other vine so drank 80 of it the first time..so be careful and test your vine before you start really dosing too high with it.

 

[olympus mon]

I wouldn't worry about acidifying mate. Ayahuasca works the same whether you do or dont. Some like to others do not but its never the difference between success or not launching.

I see you found the thread about egg tannin binding. I no longer use this method. Although it completely takes away any and all nausea I found it weakens the brew or seemed to. It could be I simmered the egg whites too long in the reduction process I never really cared to further research the method since the purge is something Im fine with if not desire.

I wouldnt be so worried about nausea. For most if it happens it goes away eventually or goes away immediately after you purge. The purge also seems to kick the journey into high gear. Maybe read this thread about the purge to help you see it in a better light.

Last thing I will comment on is the sediment because for me this has made a huge difference in potency. The strongest experiences i have had was by drinking all the sediment. It is also the ones that the purge was quite strong as well. Drinking at home I played around with different levels of filtering and over night decanting as well freeze precipitating.

The brews were all from the same batch and I drank under the same conditions. The decanted brews I felt next to zero effects while the doses I drank sediment and all were proper strong.
The brews I tannin bound were weaker for sure but still active.

It feels to me like your too pre-occupied with nausea. Its part of the package mate and I feel its best to accept what the plant teacher has for you, good or bad. You may have a very enjoyable experience it may be quite difficult. You may feel physically well or you could spend the night on the toilet. Accept and be grateful for whatever happens. If you just want an oral dmt experience than consider pharmauasca capsules.

 

[Jees]

LINK --> Acid vs. Non-Acid Brew

*No need to acidify*
How can that be said in a general way, not knowing the water used (tap water can highly differ in ph) and not knowing if the boils are rather short or very long?

I guess when you want some alks then its true, but when you want as much alks as practically possible then it does matter.

Distilled or demi-water with long boils (8 - 12 hours per boil) = sure success without acid.

For me, rue or caapi is a serious difference in experience, with rue more dynamic and caapi more going in. YMMV.

Believe Jamie, 10 gr mimo is too much to start, really. If you have good tea protocol, then this is something actually for the experienced hardhead. Of course with a flimsy extraction even a baby can drink it.

Standard brew, 50 gr caapi (25 way too less unless one has strong brew and sensitized drinker), 75 is extra assurance for success.

Thx for the ginger tip, I heard that in ayurveda it is used as a tea before dinner, to start up the digestion engine.

 

[Crazyhorse]

LINK --> Acid vs. Non-Acid Brew

*No need to acidify*

In addition to what Jees pointed out about different PH levels in different water, I also think it's worth mentioning that the argument of "they don't add acids in the amazon and it works fine" doesn't hold up. From what I've read it seems that at least in some cases the spring water they use in brazil/peru is already naturally acidic.

FWIW, I just "discovered" a great way to acidify your brew without making it taste like crap. Country Time lemonade (the powdered kind you mix yourself) has citric and ascorbic acid, and it doesn't take much to drop your PH way down. 1/4 cup per gallon worked for me. Tasty AND effective! Starting off with purified/distilled water is probably a good idea too, most of them will be near neutral whereas tap water usually starts off very alkaline (mine is about a 9-10).

 

[Istubar]

Okay, here I we go. This is what I'm going to do.

I will purchase through internet 50g of powdered mimosa and 25g of harmalas (sadly B. Caapi is too expensive compared to harmalas... ), and I will use THB with 5L of distilled water with mimosa and 2.5L of distilled water with harmalas (100ml/g ratio for both, I find really hard to work with higher quantities because I don't have bigger pots for that).

During the reduction (both to 0.5L because I have the perfect bottles to store them), I will use the eggs on both things to reduce the toxins, and after everything is fine, I will let them rest in the fridge for 24h.

The dose would be for harmalas 4g (80ml) and 5g for the mimosa 5g (50ml).

And now the proper questions:

1) If appears some sediment while they stay inside the fridge, should I remove it or not? (seems that not, unless I want to loose potency, but I'm not 100% sure)
2) For the reduction, there is any special recomendation? I mean between evaporating, slow fire or high fire.
3) My biggest pot is 2.5L. It won't be a problem if I reduce 2.5L to 250ml, then the other half, and after that putting them together, would be?
4) Are you agree with this dose? Yes? Higher? Lower?

And Olympus mon, regarding to the nausea and vomiting, I don't have problems with nausea, but maybe I could have with vomiting. If you puke, seems that your pancreas, liver, stomach or whatever had enough party and your order to throw it away to be sage. My problem is that I never vomited in my whole life, even when I was a child! (Weird, isn't? Maybe I'm not so good built :surprised ) And I don't want to punish my organs with toxic things that I can avoid if I have the chance to remove or reduce them from the brew.

Cheers! :thumb_up:

 

[Jees]

For a very first time, I would cut in half, 2 rue and 2.5 mimo.
Since you ask advice, this is mine based on the assumption that you had good extraction of the actives into the tea, and a well prepared body (maoi diet + empty belly).

About vomit, it's possible that you get stuck in never ending nausea and there is no natural purge coming up, in that case after like 2 hours or so, if you really want to end the nausea, a little finger in the throat helps.

Sediment, some speck wont kill you but you don't need it either.

 

[Jin]

dont drink 10 g , it would mean total hyperspace for me for 4 hours straight , usually i just brew 3g mimosa with 2.5 g rue , if your brewing technique is good this will be all you'll need , remember start low and work your way up

 

[Istubar]

Manteining the last four questions (anyone can help me? ), I think I will do a different thing; purchasing Chacruna (50g, ?), B. Caapi (white wine, 100g, 50g dose), Mimosa (50g, 5g dose) and P. Harmala (25g, 3g dose), to see the differences between ayahuasca and anahuasca, so like B. Caapi with mimosa and Harmalas with Chacruna. The problem is, that I have no idea about the Chacruna dosage. Which would be the correct one? And which is the best way to prepare the Chacruna tea? Seems that herbal percolator doesn't work well with it, so I need to do another thing.

Also I've read some things about Harmalas like weight loss and liver toxicity :surprised Are they really toxic or this is just a myth? (Of course when you do not overdose, take another drugs or medicines and take care about the food you eat due to tyramines). I love DMT but above all I love my health and body!

PS: How long will it preserve in a hermetic flask inside/out of the fridge? I don't want to try the 4 combinations in the same month, maybe that would be too much!

 

[MelCat]

For chacruna the dosage can range from 40-150g per person. It varies quite a bit so it's best to start off on the lower end to begin with.

You'd prepare the chacruna the same way as you would the ayahuasca, a 3x3 boil minimum. You can actually boil it with the ayahuasca but it's best to brew it separate so you can gauge the dosage a little better. Each batch will be different.

I'm unaware of any liver toxicity or weight loss associated with harmalas. If anything, I would assume they would be good for your liver but to be very clear, that is only my assumption. I'm in no way a qualified medical professional.

As for storage, it would be best to either keep the brews in a freezer or evaporate them down to powder/resin form and rehydrate them with a little bit of hot water when you're ready to consume. I've had several doses go bad from sitting out a little too long. That's always a very sad day to find mold on your aya.