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raw ayahuasca and tobacco juice

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T

TheSt0rm

Rising Star
Id like to know of any good methods of preparations of dmt brew in the raw. It might not be possible to make very potent brews but that's ok. A little probably has good use. I read somewhere of lemon juice extraction. That sounds good.

I'm inspired to try this being a raw foodist.

Another interest of mine is tobacco juice. Ie how do I make it, by soaking only air cured organic tobacco. Other curings might make it too acidic but raw air cured might be alkaline. I have yet to find the recipe. My goal in this is to use it medicinally and experimentally. For parasites and perhaps also for emotional or spiritual cleansing. Or otherwise for the mental/emotional effects.


http://www.tobaccospirit.nl/eng/articles.html good article on tobacco drinking from shamanistic viewpoint. However I dobt want to induce purging or at least physical purging so I'm looking for low dose kind and diluted.

Since I dont have air cured tobacco yet all I have is american spirit organic tobacco. Its not going to he the same but maybe it still has benefits.

Some guidance would be greatly appreciated.
Regards
 
I'm planning on getting air cured organic tobacco much later in the year.

I have some mopan mayan heirloom air cured organic tobacco coming in the mail soon as a sample. I may get another sample mailed to me soon also.

My curiosity is to get to the bottom if tobaccos real use as a medicine and spiritual aid as well as to seek the optimal method of ingestion which imo cd be in the raw ie not smoked. Also its nutritive benefits if there are any. I read that tobacco contains a lot of vitamin b.
 
you could eat raw rue seeds(3-5g), and then try and down 3g or so of mimosa (probably more, i would imagine it would be much less potent consumed in this manner). the body load would be incredible and you would probably purge almost instantly (just from the tannins alone). wouldn't be ayahuasca in the technical sense, but i doubt you could eat the necessary dose of aya (which again, would probably be higher than usual just due to method of ingesting). perhaps you could do a CWE of sorts, just juice the plant material without cooking it.

as far as tobacco, i am far from an expert (or even willing to ingest it), but what would lead you to believe lemon juice would potentiate it?
just the acid lysing the cells?
 
Not sure. I experiment with adding lemon juice to a ltn for instance I can't eat cabbage raw since it makes me tired but with lemoj juice and prbbly after soaking it in water for 30mins greatly reduces this effect if not making it disappear.

I wonder if these seeds you speak of are sproutable... which can reduce tannins. Lemon juice and a little salt maybe might also help to reduce these also. Not too much salt though just a pinch in hthe soak water as you dont want to inhibit germination.
 
Also lemon juice may help to alkalize... with organic american spirit tobacco which is likely more acidic than raw air cured tobacco it may help to counteract the acidity.
 
TheSt0rm said:
Not sure. I experiment with adding lemon juice to a ltn for instance I can't eat cabbage raw since it makes me tired but with lemon juice and prbbly after soaking it in water for 30mins greatly reduces this effect if not making it disappear.
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so... lemon juice prevents you from getting tired when you eat raw cabbage, hence it might potentiate tobacco?

i don't follow the logic, but it can't hurt, so why not.
TheSt0rm said:
I wonder if these seeds you speak of are sproutable...
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they are notoriously difficult to germinate, and many people (including myself) have had zero success germinating them, but i guess its worth a shot. i probably wouldn't do the lemon juice or salt, however
 
Well lemon juice inhibits liver enzymes the same way that grapefruit juice does... which inhibits the breakdown of active components. Like for instance caffiene will stay in the bloodstream longer if taken with lemon juice. Perhaps grapefruit juice is better. Not that I add it to caffienated beverages but I know that lemon does inhibit liver enzymes. Not sure they are the same enzymes inhibited by grapefruit juice though.

As for the cabbage.. I was making a point that I experiment with lemon juice on a lot of things. It may have different effects with different plants.

With seeds it actually reduces phytic acid and helps it to germinate quicker. I know this because I sprout a lot of seeds for food. In this case it doesn't potentiate but since its acidic and seeds prefer slightly acidic environments it aids in germination.

As for the salt... I don't really know what it can do but ancient traditions wd soak nuts and seeds in salted water (with sea water) and it helps to counteract bitter compounds. On eggplant it gets the bitter juices out.

All this I'm saying is just e being experimental. If there are any biochemists here or enthusiasts some insight wd be greatly appreciated.

Also note that natural salt has more than just sodium but other minerals as well.
 
Well you could experiment with some cold water extractions. The traditional prep for Mimosa hostilis bark is to pound/macerate it in cold water, with no acid or anything added. Supposedly it works all on its own with no MAOI, but hardly anyone since Jonathon Ott has put it to the test and reported back.

Cold water extracted syrian rue supposedly works pretty well, too.

For any CWE you probably want to grind the plant material (more surface area), and instead of using heat rely on repeated shaking and agitation of the solution to aid extraction. Leave it sit for a good day or so and strain it off. You could even do three day-long extractions with cold water, then try concentrating the liquid using a dehydrator (if you're a raw foodist, I'm guessing you must have one).

If you don't mind my asking, I'm curious on your motivation for following a raw food diet? I've looked into raw food quite a bit, and do a lot of soaking/sprouting/fermentation of my own, so I know some of the benefits it can have. However, I've always thought that refusing to boil or cook certain plant materials (for food or medicine) was taking things too far, because they can actually be more nutritious (or you can extract more medicine) using hot water. I'll say right now, I'm not attacking you or the raw food diet, I'm just curious about your process and thoughts on it.

As an example, eating a bunch of raw cabbage or kale can be pretty gnarly. You mentioned getting tired, not surprising as the digestion works overtime on some raw veggies! We just don't have the enzymes to break down plant cell walls. But you throw it in a steamer for a couple minutes, and the slight wilting helps break down the cell walls. Sure, you loose some nutrients in the cooking process, but what is left is more available and easy to absorb.

Adding salt/lemon or fermentation are ways to work around this without using heat (the salt, acid or bacteria help break down the cell walls for you). But certain plant foods (especially wild ones) really need to be boiled to become edible (eg plants containing inulin, an indigestible sugar that reduces to digestible sugars with long steam cooking, or something like bitter manioc that gets boiled as part of the process to extract the poisonous compounds from it). And many medicinal plants extract way better with boiling water than cold water extraction. How strict of a raw foodist are you? Would you consider making an exception for Ayahuasca, and brew it the way it is traditionally done?
 
Ilex said:
Well you could experiment with some cold water extractions. The traditional prep for Mimosa hostilis bark is to pound/macerate it in cold water, with no acid or anything added. Supposedly it works all on its own with no MAOI, but hardly anyone since Jonathon Ott has put it to the test and reported back.

Cold water extracted syrian rue supposedly works pretty well, too.

For any CWE you probably want to grind the plant material (more surface area), and instead of using heat rely on repeated shaking and agitation of the solution to aid extraction. Leave it sit for a good day or so and strain it off. You could even do three day-long extractions with cold water, then try concentrating the liquid using a dehydrator (if you're a raw foodist, I'm guessing you must have one).

If you don't mind my asking, I'm curious on your motivation for following a raw food diet? I've looked into raw food quite a bit, and do a lot of soaking/sprouting/fermentation of my own, so I know some of the benefits it can have. However, I've always thought that refusing to boil or cook certain plant materials (for food or medicine) was taking things too far, because they can actually be more nutritious (or you can extract more medicine) using hot water. I'll say right now, I'm not attacking you or the raw food diet, I'm just curious about your process and thoughts on it.

As an example, eating a bunch of raw cabbage or kale can be pretty gnarly. You mentioned getting tired, not surprising as the digestion works overtime on some raw veggies! We just don't have the enzymes to break down plant cell walls. But you throw it in a steamer for a couple minutes, and the slight wilting helps break down the cell walls. Sure, you loose some nutrients in the cooking process, but what is left is more available and easy to absorb.

Adding salt/lemon or fermentation are ways to work around this without using heat (the salt, acid or bacteria help break down the cell walls for you). But certain plant foods (especially wild ones) really need to be boiled to become edible (eg plants containing inulin, an indigestible sugar that reduces to digestible sugars with long steam cooking, or something like bitter manioc that gets boiled as part of the process to extract the poisonous compounds from it). And many medicinal plants extract way better with boiling water than cold water extraction. How strict of a raw foodist are yo
u? Would you consider making an exception for Ayahuasca, and brew it the way it is traditionally done?
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Well I'm not going to lie that I am really strict though at times I do use herbal perparations which have been heated. I've noticed how maca effects me better raw than as opposed to toasted. I have a big interest in raw alchemy or preparations as well.

How is my diet? I am pretty much keen on sproutarianism. About 90% of the food I eat are raw sprouts or germinated seeds and the rest are condiments.

I know that plants shd be ground up well to make an extraction. My best experience with yerba mate was of cold water extraction from 100% raw chimarrao ground up gaucho style. It has to be dried and ground up. Aging wd probbly make it more palatable or smtg but I liked it as is. Very expensive though. Chimaterere.com sells it as called chimaraw.

It's just smtg I like to experiment with... and if there are ways to prepare smtg and to leave it raw I assune it's better for me... it also feels a lot better also.

As for bioavailability.. again that's why I wd like to learn the raw preparation or alchemical process.

Ground up plant substances are not so bad. Germinated seeds also. There are ways I believe to get things to sprout which are normally hard to sprout or take time. Magnets, and other environmental fixes do help.

I just know how substances effects me raw as opposed to heat processed and pretty much 100% the raw versions always effect me better. And if it cannot be taken raw I just dnt eat it.

But I am of the belief that if a person requires the aid of heat processed medicinals or with weak digestion it can help when the raw food can't. Only in these cases though.

Also... the raw vs cooked tomato arguent often shows up. Imo the raw benefits outweigh the cooked benefits unlesss as I said one needs to use it.medicinally.
Also our digestive fire can be limited due to having eaten cooked food for a long time. So when a person builds hikself up with raw sprouted foods or other fresh wild raw foods the body does start to digest raw food a lot easier.

Some things just can't be eaten raw or shd not. Often times also this may be due to overhybridization. Or just the fact that probably its just not meant to be eatej raw imo unless as medicine or for in the case of poor digestion. And pretty much most people are not at the level of stregnth to eat some raw foods until the body is cleansed or atleast a specific raw dietary protocol is best for these types. Ie referring to people who go all out on fruits and low fat.

Its just my thoughts. Im on a cell phone btw as my pc and laptop are in repairs so if some of the text looks jarbled or I missed smtg please excuse me. I am willing to discuss more on this matter later if here is anything else you'd like to talk about.
 
I tried to do tons of things raw durring the years I lived as a raw foodest..its is sort of not worth it IMO. People brew ayahuasca for a reason..yes some people do do cold water extractions and it is a waste of the medicine in my own opinion. Maybe others feel differently though. Cold water mimosa works sure but you have to use so much more..this medicine is more and more rare in the west..I would hate to waste it this way.

There are many cases where cooking plants or herbs is far more medicinal than using them raw anyway..Boiling the vine for one thing is thought to produce more THH through conversion of other harmalas, which is thought to be ideal..the reason why many people claim to love caapi so much compared to other sources is the THH.

"However, I've always thought that refusing to boil or cook certain plant materials (for food or medicine) was taking things too far, because they can actually be more nutritious (or you can extract more medicine) using hot water."

I feel this way as well..after being a raw foodest for a couple years and believing that anything raw was the best etc..after moving away from that diet for various reasons I wont get into here and doing more research I no longer think that just trying to eat all raw food is the best way to eat, or even all that great in the long run. To each their own.

Try a cold water brew and then a traditional 3x3 boiled brew and compare. This will tell you what you need to know.
 
"Also our digestive fire can be limited due to having eaten cooked food for a long time."

The thing is there is not really any real world evidence to back that claim up though..this is the thing with the raw vegan movement..alot of it is based on what other raw people say etc and little seems to actaully be supported by real data. Like the enzyme claims people make..tons of those enzymes are destroyed the hcl acid in the gut instantly..its the saliva in the mouth that you really need the most for enzymes..chew your food.

I dont really want to get into a debate here about raw food..just saying..after a couple years being a strict raw vegan I bega to realize how much crap leaders of that movement just make up at times..and it all sounds really great at first..

The one thing raw food really does have going for it is high bio-photon levels. In the end though I regret ever subscribing to that diet. I feel like it caused some harm after a few years. An organic whole foods diet feels infinatly healthier for both me and my gf, who was raw vegan for 7 years and really went downhill at the end of her time on that diet. If you do not have years of experience with this diet please be careful about what you say abotu it and who you say it to. I feel bad for supporting this diet like it was the best thing ever and trying to get other people to get into it for so long becasue of how many people end up sick after years of doing it.

If it works for you though, then it works for you.
 
Yep. I will try it. I still will keep the majority of my diet raw.
I've done more research on raw than it seems a lot of people and it seems there is a misunderstanding imo that this can lead to of a raw Vegan diet heh. Like of the people who want to eat only store bought fruits without taking the time to build themselves up throguh a modified diet like Gabriel Cousens rainbow greens diet. That and store bought fruits are pretty low in vibration when compared to fresh wild fruit picked and ripened from the tree.

I also do like fermented food. It really helps to rebuild the flora.
 
jamie said:
"Also our digestive fire can be limited due to having eaten cooked food for a long time."

The thing is there is not really any real world evidence to back that claim up though..this is the thing with the raw vegan movement..alot of it is based on what other raw people say etc and little seems to actaully be supported by real data. Like the enzyme claims people make..tons of those enzymes are destroyed the hcl acid in the gut instantly..its the saliva in the mouth that you really need the most for enzymes..chew your food.

I dont really want to get into a debate here about raw food..just saying..after a couple years being a strict raw vegan I bega to realize how much crap leaders of that movement just make up at times..and it all sounds really great at first..

The one thing raw food really does have going for it is high bio-photon levels. In the end though I regret ever subscribing to that diet. I feel like it caused some harm after a few years. An organic whole foods diet feels infinatly healthier for both me and my gf, who was raw vegan for 7 years and really went downhill at the end of her time on that diet. If you do not have years of experience with this diet please be careful about what you say abotu it and who you say it to. I feel bad for supporting this diet like it was the best thing ever and trying to get other people to get into it for so long becasue of how many people end up sick after years of doing it.

If it works for you though, then it works for you.
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I agree with you on the enzymes thing. Its much more than enzymes.

Also because of our society the way it is and the lack of availability of fresh fruit I don't believe the high fruit diet works. That's why I choose sproutarianism as being the best type of raw diet.

Also I think the book Left in the Dark is pretty insightful.

Again it just seems hard to see that a raw diet works I just think it has to do with the way society has been set up to make it hard work. There will also be more development in the future as regards this diet
.. sprouting provides a valuable gateway. That and the cultivation of better more valuable crops which are not available to the masses yet.
 
I am well aware of the state of commerical foods. My fiance ran 2 different raw kitchens for years and ran workshops with people like David Wolfe..we def knew what we were doing. I was getting the best organic produce right from the farmers the whole time, and harvesting large ammounts of wild herbs, greens and fruits to eat daily and eating "superfoods". It just was not enough in the end. Everyone will just not thrive on that sort of a diet. Maybe some people will, I cant really say. I have seen people who seem to do okay and I have seen other people who end up with nervous system damage(when raw vegan long term, not just raw with raw animal products).
 
"lso because of our society the way it is and the lack of availability of fresh fruit I don't believe the high fruit diet works"

Haha no..I dont either. I lived for a time 811 raw vegan.. I really dont know how people do that long term. But then..I look at Doug Graham and the guy does not look so great..

I have yet to meat a fruitarian in person that seems healthy. Ive met raw vegans that look great but never a fruitarian. Its a good way to clean the system for a period of time though.
 
"Also I think the book Left in the Dark is pretty insightful."

yes it is an interesting book..my gf is friends with Tony and this is how she origionally got into the raw food movement. I think his ideas about epigenetics are valid but I dont believe that humans evolved on a fruitarian diet. High high ammounts of complex neuroactive plant chemicals yes, but I dont think we evolved without any cooked food or animals products at all.
 
You mentioned nervous system damage. I think there needs to be more research on the b12 thing and we are getting there.

Also omega 3 are extremely important. The omega 3s need to be taken as total omega 3 count and not just merely from dha oil pills. It needs to be a ratio of 1:2 to1:4 omega 3s to 6s at the least. The body will create epa.and dha on its own given enough ala omega 3 which are the precursor to dha and epa. There is also gla from hemp and sda which wd be highly beneficial in healing the nervous system and further helping to produce dha and epa. Coconut oil and seaweed also is a big help.
 
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