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raw ayahuasca and tobacco juice

Migrated topic.
what does juicing greens have to do with anything I just said? Juicing greens is great and I do it all the time..I have done multiple green juice fasts for up to 10 days a time. It is not going to fix all the epigenetic damage that is proposed in one single generation.
 
Most raw vegan diets I see are too high in the fruits or fat without giving thought to micronutrients. But besides that also yes it does require a transitionary diet to achieve the proper raw vegan diet like the gabriel cousens phase plan and with lots of green juice is perhaps the best way atleast for the first 3 months. Then after that we still need about 1-2lbs of greens a day. I wd def
Add more though in the form of juices so that the total amount cd get up to 5-7lbs of leafy greens a day. This includes sprout greens as well.

The problem is.not vegan or raw.. its how its done.
 
jamie said:
what does juicing greens have to do with anything I just said? Juicing greens is great and I do it all the time..I have done multiple green juice fasts for up to 10 days a time. It is not going to fix all the epigenetic damage that is proposed in one single generation.
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Because you mentioned that due to "epigenetic damage" the body is too weak to have the strength to be able to be raw vegan perhaps not having enough digestive fire or what have you. I know that high green juices strengthens the body a lot with valuable micronutrients. Being sure to include the sea greens. Moderate amounts of fat high in omega 3 also help as well. Infact nourishes the kidneys.
 
still, none of that adresses the issue of epigenetics. A transition from green juice for 3 months to eating greens does not adress the issue. Epigenetic changes are something that you dont reverse in just one lifetime. Your not going to have everyone transitioning over a few months or even years and suddenly just have all the problems go away. I think maybe you dont fully grasp the situation presented in relation to the epigenetic aspect of it..we are talking changes that apparently took place over and long long long long period of time man.

It goes way beyond digesting raw food. There is no solid evidence the issue is even about raw food.
 
TheSt0rm said:
jamie said:
what does juicing greens have to do with anything I just said? Juicing greens is great and I do it all the time..I have done multiple green juice fasts for up to 10 days a time. It is not going to fix all the epigenetic damage that is proposed in one single generation.
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Because you mentioned that due to "epigenetic damage" the body is too weak to have the strength to be able to be raw vegan perhaps not having enough digestive fire or what have you. I know that high green juices strengthens the body a lot with valuable micronutrients. Being sure to include the sea greens. Moderate amounts of fat high in omega 3 also help as well. Infact nourishes the kidneys.
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OK

micronutrients sure, juice some kale or chew down some collard greens. I can vouch for that.

Doesn't mean you can live on the stuff.
Add some eggs, fish, and other meats to your diet. COOKED


Pretty sure humans evolved alongside fire for a reason.
 
TheSt0rm said:
I think there are some things which help to heal the DNA.
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epigenetic ≠ genetic.
Wikipedia said:
In biology, and specifically genetics, epigenetics is the study of heritable changes in gene expression or cellular phenotype caused by mechanisms other than changes in the underlying DNA sequence – hence the name epi- (Greek: επί- over, above, outer) -genetics.
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also, just because there is epigenetic degradation due to a change in diet, it is not necessarily indicative of a previous vegan diet (correlation is NOT causation), it just means at one time we ate more of these things than we have been recently.


if you have a machine that functions on two forms of fuel, and then only use one, the machine will not function properly, but the solution is not to only use the other fuel.
 
Parshvik Chintan said:
TheSt0rm said:
I think there are some things which help to heal the DNA.
Click to expand...
epigenetic ≠ genetic.
Wikipedia said:
In biology, and specifically genetics, epigenetics is the study of heritable changes in gene expression or cellular phenotype caused by mechanisms other than changes in the underlying DNA sequence – hence the name epi- (Greek: επί- over, above, outer) -genetics.
Click to expand...

also, just because there is epigenetic degradation due to a change in diet, it is not necessarily indicative of a previous vegan diet (correlation is NOT causation), it just means at one time we ate more of these things than we have been recently.


if you have a machine that functions on two forms of fuel, and then only use one, the machine will not function properly, but the solution is not to only use the other fuel.
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I never stated that I believe there was epigenetic damage due to change in the diet and much less from a change from vegan to nonvegan diet lol.

This is I think the second time I have been accused of saying something... or assuming a subtext when here actually isnt.

Also as for epigenetics; I thought epigenetics was a step below genetics such that geneticn patterns are more deeply ingrained. If genetic damage can be helped then shd it not make sense that epigenetic damage would be easier to treat?

Maybe that is not the case but I have understood epigenetic patterns to be less engrained than the genetic patterns.. i guess the only thing that would make it harder would be world affairs where a majority supresses a minority.

For example a person might have a predisposition to cancer but that doesnt mean one can't help it.
 
I wasn't going to get involved in this conversation any more, but what the hell...

Epigenetics studies the way genes are expressed (being turned on and off), and how gene expression patterns are inherited from generation to generation. The gene expression patterns of your parents, grandparents and so on set the stage for your own gene expression. Of course our gene expression is also influenced by environmental factors - food being a big one.

It has been shown that plant foods (more so than animal foods) have a direct influence on our gene expression (they can turn genes on or off, in a way the plant foods you eat are part of "formatting" your gene expression). When Jamie brings up the issue of epigenetic degradation and a loss of fertility or reproductive capacity, that is a very real issue. Already as a species we are experiencing reproductive difficulties - low sperm counts in men, loss of regular menstrual cycles in women etc. - and diet is a huge contributing factor. It is sobering to think about, because these traits can be passed on to our offspring. Maybe you will still be able to reproduce okay, but your children or your grandchildren may not be. We have to make the best choices of what we eat now, to ensure the health of future generations. Maybe you can thrive for 5 or 10 or even 20 years on a raw vegan diet, but how will your dietary choices effect your descendants? We don't really know, because veganism is such a new experiment.

I think eating quality animal products is important because they are so nutrient dense, and high in cholesterol which is an important antioxidant in our diet as well as being a critical precursor to our sex hormones. Yes, the body can make some of its own cholesterol, but from an evolutionary point of view we have been adapted to having large amounts of animal products (and cooked foods) in our diet for as long as we have been human, so its the "safe bet". When in doubt, eat what we know has worked for tens of thousands of years.

I have several friends who were (or still are) raw vegans, and after 5-7 years all of them were showing some signs of degrading health. Nervous system damage, loss of regular menstruation, candida overgrowth and a burst appendix are all things I have witnessed. Some of them decided to reintroduce animal foods - a funny story was one family who were very hesitant, but decided to try some elk liver. As soon as they started eating it, they literally couldn't stop and ate the whole thing, by the end of it they were practically high too - giggling hysterically and filled with a feeling of vitality.

Even if you eat organic, raw and vegan you are not that far removed from killing animals. Two of the most common organic fertilizers are bone meal and blood meal... guess where those come from? Everything is so interconnected, you can't really separate the plant/animal aspects of agriculture. And really, what's so different about an animal that you feel bad to kill and eat it? We all kill and eat to survive, that's the cycle of life.
 
I have to ask,again, were any of those raw foodists you refer to sproutarians? High fruit eaters? Low fat? Ate too many Gourmet raw foodists and not caring about proportions? Did not supplement b12?

As far as I know anyone following the protocol I've mentioned of sprouts seaweeds and algars, nuts ands and seeds, low-"moderate" fruits etc. Is rare.
Anyone that followed this under gabriel cousrns 3 phase plan? Again also rare.
The 3 phase plan is meant to reverse damage and ease one into the optimal raw vegan diet as the foundation. Which also means healing past damages done by a SAD diet or high cooked foods diet.

Not all raw vegans arw the same. Just because one or a couple of kinds are popularized does not make all raw foodists follow those same diets which have a high failure rate.

The protocol I reccomended has the most success rates yet also seems to be the rarest
 
Thesproutarian.com it is the best kind of raw food diet. Esp under the Gabriel Cousens 3 phase plan. The sproutrarian.com tells the best foods to choose from and Gabriel Cousens phase plan outlines the best way to make this diet possible for most people.

Thesproutarian website is heavily influenced by the Hippocrates Institute. The Hippocrates way and the Gabriel Cousens ways esp with a background or foundation of the sprouts way by the hippocrates institure are the most scientifically sound ways of implementing the raw food diet in this modern age.
 
dude I was growiong sprouts like crazy the whole time I was raw vegan..I was eating literally tons of them every day. I tried many raw vegan diets including what Gabriel Cousins outlines at his Tree of Life center. It just did not work long term..

Again..how long have you been raw vegan? If you are going to suggest dietary protocols than it would be nice to know how long you personally have followed such a diet with the success you talk about. I have already said that so many of these people in the raw vegan world just make stuff up. They pull all kinds of stuff right out of their ass and sell books about it.

I have no faith in people who just quote from books. I dont mean to argue with you or attack you but you just seem to want to undermine the experience of anyone who does not agree with you who DO have many years experience with these diets, and ended up basically fucked up because of it.

The low fat claim is also completely bunk. Low fat diets are like heart attack diets. You have to beware of people who just make this kind of stuff up.
 
I dont know what you mean by "sprouts like crazy" and I don't know to what extent you tried the Gabriel Cousens plan.

I never even suggested to people they all shd be on the raw food diet. Its just what I do.

I dont understand your comment about the low fat diet. I dont agree with excessively low fat diets


Somehow it seems like you and another mod here have an agenda to misrepresent and downplay raw food diets.
 
No I am simply giving my experience with various forms the diet over a period of years, and the experience of my gf who did it for 7 years. You seem to come back with some weird reponse for why every person that could not be healthy on that diet was not healthy..other than accepting that is is just not a diet that everyone is going to be healthy on and probably never will.

I never said it would not work for everyone. If it works for you than great. I am not you and many other people are not you.

How did I misrepresent it? I at least was able to give my OWN PERSONAL experience here, and not only talking about what other raw food authors are saying. I am simply representing my own experience and the experience of others close to me.

I am also the only moderator who has even posted in this thread as far as I know..so how do you come to the conclusion that there are 2 moderators with an agenda here?

To be honest you sound like you have more of an agenda here than anyone else.

It is good to challenge ideas. Dont take any of this personally..it is not personal. Ilex asked a question about the raw food diet on the first page and I responded..and then you responded and this became a discussion about the raw food diet..that is all. Should I not discuss my experience after years of being a strict raw vegan? I honestly feel like most of the people in that movement do just make up a lot of stuff that makes no real sense, and my own experience on the diet and watching others I love and care about on the diet just makes me think this even more. This is just my opinion. Sorry if you dont like it. I cant helo feeling that way at this point.

If you are happy with where you are than great. You should do whatever you feel is best, as should everyone else. I would never tell anyone they should not try raw food if that is what they really feel like doing. All I can do is offer my own experience. If personal experience that spans a number of years means nothing than w/e. Raw food is great, greens are great, sprouts are great..juice fasting is great..I just dont think thats all there is to being healthy at this point.
 
jamie said:
No I am simply giving my experience with various forms the diet over a period of years, and the experience of my gf who did it for 7 years. You seem to come back with some weird reponse for why every person that could not be healthy on that diet was not healthy..other than accepting that is is just not a diet that everyone is going to be healthy on and probably never will.

I never said it would not work for everyone. If it works for you than great. I am not you and many other people are not you.

How did I misrepresent it? I at least was able to give my OWN PERSONAL experience here, and not only talking about what other raw food authors are saying. I am simply representing my own experience and the experience of others close to me.

I am also the only moderator who has even posted in this thread as far as I know..so how do you come to the conclusion that there are 2 moderators with an agenda here?

To be honest you sound like you have more of an agenda here than anyone else.

It is good to challenge ideas. Dont take any of this personally..it is not personal. Ilex asked a question about the raw food diet on the first page and I responded..and then you responded and this became a discussion about the raw food diet..that is all. Should I not discuss my experience after years of being a strict raw vegan? I honestly feel like most of the people in that movement do just make up a lot of stuff that makes no real sense, and my own experience on the diet and watching others I love and care about on the diet just makes me think this even more. This is just my opinion. Sorry if you dont like it. I cant helo feeling that way at this point.

If you are happy with where you are than great. You should do whatever you feel is best, as should everyone else. I would never tell anyone they should not try raw food if that is what they really feel like doing. All I can do is offer my own experience. If personal experience that spans a number of years means nothing than w/e. Raw food is great, greens are great, sprouts are great..juice fasting is great..I just dont think thats all there is to being healthy at this point.
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I'm sorry I thought there was another poster here with the modshield icon. I must have gotten confused.

Its also kind of hard to really view who posts what here on a small screen of my cell phone heh.

Well this raw thing is just something I believe in.
 
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