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raw ayahuasca and tobacco juice

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jamie said:
"Also I think the book Left in the Dark is pretty insightful."

yes it is an interesting book..my gf is friends with Tony and this is how she origionally got into the raw food movement. I think his ideas about epigenetics are valid but I dont believe that humans evolved on a fruitarian diet. High high ammounts of complex neuroactive plant chemicals yes, but I dont think we evolved without any cooked food or animals products at all.
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Hehe. Yea we really don't know. Some wd say we were originally raw vegans some say we were first carnivore. Some say our brqins got bigger because we started eating more meat... some say it came about with the advent of entheogens... or with farming/cultivation of plant foods. I dont know.
 
There are people who thrive on high sprouts, germinated nuts and seeds, seaweed, and omega 3 diet. Thats all I know. And it makes sense. Most.people on raw do not do this.

And cannabis can fill a huge gap that has been missing also if it were legalized.
 
there definatly needs to be more research in relation to the bio-availability of vegan b12 sources..but that aside there are cases out there of 15 year etc vegans with b12 levels so low they end up with neuropathy. It does not help when you have people like Frelee and Durrianrider running a popular raw vegan forum and sensoring posts from anyone who has problems with the diet. If the people into this whole thing have any integrity they should totally turn their backs on those two people.

It is stories like this that really made me feel bad for the fact that I might have actually inspired some people to do that diet. It is an experiment with little actaul data behind it in my opinion. You just never know and I dont want to be responsible for people going through that.


I also saw my gf's tests after 7 years raw vegan..and they were not good at all, and I was already feeling lower and lower and lower as well. The first 18 months or so felt great..

All I am saying is that I have seen many people support this diet as if it is scientific fact that is is what they say it is..and it is not. There is not enough data behind it IMO and the fact that people experiment this way on their kids etc is extremely alarming to me. There needs to be way way more research done. I like people like Gabriel cousins well enough..but then again this is a guy who I also once heard claim thaty psychedelics were bad becasue they "burn out your ojas"..so I tend to take these people with a grain of salt at this point.
 
jamie said:
there definatly needs to be more research in relation to the bio-availability of vegan b12 sources..but that aside there are cases out there of 15 year etc vegans with b12 levels so low they end up with neuropathy. It does not help when you have people like Frelee and Durrianrider running a popular raw vegan forum and sensoring posts from anyone who has problems with the diet. If the people into this whole thing have any integrity they should totally turn their backs on those two people.

It is stories like this that really made me feel bad for the fact that I might have actually inspired some people to do that diet. It is an experiment with little actaul data behind it in my opinion. You just never know and I dont want to be responsible for people going through that.


I also saw my gf's tests after 7 years raw vegan..and they were not good at all, and I was already feeling lower and lower and lower as well. The first 18 months or so felt great..

All I am saying is that I have seen many people support this diet as if it is scientific fact that is is what they say it is..and it is not. There is not enough data behind it IMO and the fact that people experiment this way on their kids etc is extremely alarming to me. There needs to be way way more research done. I like people like Gabriel cousins well enough..but then again this is a guy who I also once heard claim thaty psychedelics were bad becasue they "burn out your ojas"..so I tend to take these people with a grain of salt at this point.
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I do take b12.

Gabriel Cousens is not perfect I know but it is kind of true that atl

east overusage of psychedelics burn up ojas.
But a good diet help to build up more ojas as well. Samepe way that overconsumption of caffiene or exercise and lack of sleep burns up yin or essence(jing)

People have told.me going from a popular raw vegan diet to high sprouts seaweed and omega 3 have healed themaelves from the damage done on their previous diet.

Thesproutarian.com
 
TheSt0rm said:
jamie said:
"Also I think the book Left in the Dark is pretty insightful."

yes it is an interesting book..my gf is friends with Tony and this is how she origionally got into the raw food movement. I think his ideas about epigenetics are valid but I dont believe that humans evolved on a fruitarian diet. High high ammounts of complex neuroactive plant chemicals yes, but I dont think we evolved without any cooked food or animals products at all.
Click to expand...

Hehe. Yea we really don't know. Some wd say we were originally raw vegans some say we were first carnivore. Some say our brqins got bigger because we started eating more meat... some say it came about with the advent of entheogens... or with farming/cultivation of plant foods. I dont know.
Click to expand...
Well we are diverging quickly from raw Ayahuasca...

Nevertheless, I've got to ask: Do you eat raw meat? Bison steak tartar with an egg yolk on top is damn good.

I don't know if you've looked at the work of Weston Price, but it is pretty clear that animal products (especially saturated fat) are a very important part of our diet. Also our brain size has actually decreased since we started farming, go figure. I'm not advocating that we go back to the stone age or anything, but incorporating saturated animal fats I think makes a huge difference in our health and life expectancy. The only long-term vegetarian (not vegan) civilization we know of is in India, and they have a relatively low life expectancy. On the other hand, the Inuit consisted on a diet almost exclusively of animal products (the stomach contents of reindeer which contain lichens being one of the only plant/fungal foods in their diet) and they were very robust people.
 
I saw a video done by a popular guy I forgot his name. He compared two of the longest living people right now. The okinawans and the 7th day adventists of california. Okinawans eat a little meat but the 7th day adventists in cali in the study were l vegan. Well... the 7th day adventists came out on top.being the longest living people. Then he compared them to other vegans and found the common factor is that the 7th day adventists ate nuts and seeds having more fat in their diets than the other low fat vegans.

So... that's life expectancy for you. As for saturated fats.... that's a good thing to talk about. Coconut oil has saturated fats. It helps.people with low.cholesterol levels. I'm not sure that direct saturated fat is necessary to eat but it can be be;;;neficial. Saturated fats are produced in the body as is cholesterol so do we really need them from direct sources if we get all the precursors? Perhaps it can be of use in medicine. Same sprouted nuts.and seeds: they have hormones that are bioavailable. Glycolipids and lipoproteins also having been formed. Though they may be different types of cholesterol in a healthy body tuese shd be produced in the body already. All palm oils are high in saturated fats.

Carnitine as well. In sprouted seeds you have pure jing nourishing stuff and the necessary precursors to life.

But left in the dark mentions very imprtant points about how important fats are and that antioxidants are essential to keeping those fats in our membranes from oxidizing.
 
Even though it is kinda offtopic, i want to say something about raw food/fruitarianism.

During mushrooms, i kinda learned how important it is to eat more fruits and vegetables and i followed this advice. It was also jamie who encouraged me to go down this path more. But this a is a good thing. I mean, it's not like you're giving advice and all of a sudden the recipient of said advice has to suspend all critical thinking. If you look like "the life regenerator / Dan "the man" McDonald" you start to understand what this diet is about: Starting to appreciate life through raw food as a symbolic vehicle. It is important to see this movement in a broadercultural context and then you realize, that eating more fruits is in part rebellion against the junk food industry and the toxic american diet.

I believe thatmost people would fare very well, if they would eat more fruits and vegetables wether cooked or not. You can still supplement that with a smaller amount of animal protein. I never was dogmatic about that. I mean, im a vegetarian, but i don't condem those who eat meat. It's just not something i feel comfortable with.
 
So no one knows about the tobacco juice? How to make it. Is chewing preffered method?

The lemon juice seemed to soften the spicy mouthfeel of the tobacco. I soaked a tablespoon in water and splashed some of that in a glass and drank. Then added lemon juice to the original brew and splashed that into another glass of water and drank.

This is probably more risky than chewing since chewing gets the esophagus more... plus a lot can be absorbed by the mouth through lingual absorption.
 
"I saw a video done by a popular guy I forgot his name. He compared two of the longest living people right now. The okinawans and the 7th day adventists of california. Okinawans eat a little meat but the 7th day adventists in cali in the study were l vegan. Well... the 7th day adventists came out on top.being the longest living people. Then he compared them to other vegans and found the common factor is that the 7th day adventists ate nuts and seeds having more fat in their diets than the other low fat vegans."

7th day adventists are vegetarians NOT vegans. Lacto-ovo vegetarian. There is a very big difference between the two. There is a long history of vegetarianism that works in india. There is no long term history of veganism anywhere.

You are referring to the blue zone cultures..they all eat some animal products. I dont know of any blue zone vegans. People often try to use the example of the Okinawans as a support for veganism but this is a fallacy. I have heard people claim they wuld live even longer without the meat in their diet..but I am sure if you ask them why they eat the little meat they do they would tell you it is because they need to eat some meat. Noone ever bothers to ask them this though. There is another blue zone culture that eats pork..which you would think would shorten lifespan..but for them it does not.
 
Wow I drank some tobacco juice before bed and had no problem falling into hypnogogic imagery. Eventually having very interesting lucid dreams....
 
TheSt0rm said:
So no one knows about the tobacco juice? How to make it. Is chewing preffered method?

The lemon juice seemed to soften the spicy mouthfeel of the tobacco. I soaked a tablespoon in water and splashed some of that in a glass and drank. Then added lemon juice to the original brew and splashed that into another glass of water and drank.

This is probably more risky than chewing since chewing gets the esophagus more... plus a lot can be absorbed by the mouth through lingual absorption.
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You can have green tobacco if you grow your own and do not cure it. I dont know if it really can be called "raw" when it is cured. The indians cure it usually becasue it makes it taste way better than green tobacco..but green tobacco is not unheard of. If you want to make juice just chop up the tobacco when dry and soak it in water for a few days..then use that juice as a singado.
 
curing changes the chemical structure through enzymatic reactions..whcih is why some people dont call cured plant products "raw"..same reason why some people dont concider fermented foods "raw"..kind of pointless but w/e some people get all bent out of shape about it. Depending on how you cure it I think more carcinogens are produced also.
 
Actually this is the correct video:

I'm not concerned about air curing as I still think its close to raw. I don't know if green tobacco is very palatable but who knows. I dont think anyone has tried it. Fermenting is fine with me also.
 
anothrI have to quit smoking tobacco. Its one of my vices as well as caffiene. Before it was marijuana. Then I became aware of my caffiene addiction in stopping my marijuana smoking abuse. Then I got interested in tobacco again as I used to smoke cigs. I just want to get to the bottom of these addictions and I wholly believe that consuming these things raw would be the most beneficial and would help me to acquire the "natural taste" for them so as to have them less addictive.

As for marijuana... I know the active thc and cbd are only there after heat processing but I read somewhere that bubble hash still gets you high if eaten and that's raw. Otherwise I think grinding the weed in fats like good ol hempseed and maybe soke acid may also help to make the active components bioavailable. These kibds of methods of preparing herbs to keep them raw is very interesting to me. Fermentation is another but even too much fermented drink or food products in excess can be detrimental.

Researching ancient traditions of herbal and food preparations have opened my eyes to the possibility of using these things as medicine and if possible to finding ways of preparing then such that raw nutrients are still lept intact. And if that is not possible then id just have to accept that these substances are not really meant to be taken or eaten at least raw. And also it has gotten me interested into the spiritual usage and cultural uses of the substances for spiritual benefit. Eventually it can be seen that this is really just alchemy. That still doesn't deter me from a high raw vegan diet.
 
I actually don't like david wolfe all that much. He also doesn't focus on sprouts yet he does talk about things that caj be interesting or contain a bit of truth. I think he started out with an interest in just making money and with a big ego
.. seems he still does too. Or maybe it's a misunderstanding. He has also plagarized from other material which I did not like.

I prefer gabriel cousens, and the hippocrates institute as my main raw food advocates but also cab get tips from peter ragnar and one if the founders of earthshiftproducts.com

I believe sprouts and germinated food hold a key to making it all work. If not for he germination but being closest to the primal raw diet as many foods are devitalized by the time they get to the store shelves.

Thesproutarian.com has inspired me immensely on this journey.

I just lose faith in the world if veganism isn't possible. I started my journey as a vegetariaj ajd ejded up vegan and seeing that the optimal vegan diet is actually the high raw vegan diet high in sprouts, germinated nuts and seeds, seaweed and algae, high omega 3 etc.

The sprouts require more research to be proven really effective. I just believe it holds a gateway into making the raw vegan or vegan diet in general possible.

Also agriculture and farming techniques. To me cultivation is just ths natural way of life.
 
you have to be careful when you listen to him and some other people in the raw food world..I think many people just sort of make up things as they go along, inserting it between other truths.

I like listeing to David Wolfe talk about wild water and ormus more though. Everyone has their high and low points. If it had not been for David getting Daniel Vitalis into spring water..noone would have created findaspring.com and I would probly not have gotten into wild spring water 5 years or so ago. I live 5 minutes from a spring and have been drinking only wild spring water exclusivly for about 5 years now. That has had the biggest impact on me by far..far far more than the food aspect, of course clean food is important.. Water is life. So I am thankful for David Wolfe for that. I never would have been invovled in spring hunting and building magentic water traps and all these others things if he had not been on to that whole thing years ago before anyone else was talking about it.

Caffine and cannabis were two things I had to get rid of as well. I can smoke cannabis occasionally but I had to stop my daily addiction to both of those two. Being constantly burnt out was not ideal.

There is not way to get high with raw cannabis..it has to be heated. THC and CBD are still there when raw they are just in acid form. If you juice raw cannabis leaf you can intake huge ammounts of THC acid and get all the medical effects without any psychactivity. If you consumed that much active THC you would probly pass out or go insane for a long time.

Putting cannabis buds in oil or acids wont do anything. The cannabis has to be heated to convert the THC acid to THC. The only reason people use oils is becasue THC is fat soluble..they still have to heat it up to convert it to a active form and the oil is there to pull the THC and other cannabinoids into it. I just dont think there is any way around this..if you want to get stoned you have to heat the cannabis.

"I just lose faith in the world if veganism isn't possible"

Why? Whats wrong with the way the native americans and other indigenous peoples lived for thousands of years? It is only in our western industrial culture that we began to rape the land, cut down forests in mass and torture animals. In all other indigenous cultures animals were a source of food and still respected as sacred animals. These people would be completely horrified at the way the western world tortures animals in factory farms.

it's not either or..its not vegan or animal torture. I wont get near a factory farm but I still eat wild fish that is fished sustainably, and I get organic eggs from a farmer with freerange non medicated chickens and I get raw grass fed cheese from a farmer who raises cows ethically with tons of room to walk around and graze and does not toruture the animals. It is really not as simple a picture as it seems. Factory farming is the real enemy that has bread a complete lack of resepct for other beings and the cycle of life in general. If people really cared about ending the torture and destruction they would boytcott monsanto, monocultured crops and the mainstream dairy industry etc and not just attack meat eaters in general.
 
jamie said:
you have to be careful when you listen to him and some other people in the raw food world..I think many people just sort of make up things as they go along, inserting it between other truths.

I like listeing to David Wolfe talk about wild water and ormus more though. Everyone has their high and low points. If it had not been for David getting Daniel Vitalis into spring water..noone would have created findaspring.com and I would probly not have gotten into wild spring water 5 years or so ago. I live 5 minutes from a spring and have been drinking only wild spring water exclusivly for about 5 years now. That has had the biggest impact on me by far..far far more than the food aspect, of course clean food is important.. Water is life. So I am thankful for David Wolfe for that. I never would have been invovled in spring hunting and building magentic water traps and all these others things if he had not been on to that whole thing years ago before anyone else was talking about it.

Caffine and cannabis were two things I had to get rid of as well. I can smoke cannabis occasionally but I had to stop my daily addiction to both of those two. Being constantly burnt out was not ideal.

There is not way to get high with raw cannabis..it has to be heated. THC and CBD are still there when raw they are just in acid form. If you juice raw cannabis leaf you can intake huge ammounts of THC acid and get all the medical effects without any psychactivity. If you consumed that much active THC you would probly pass out or go insane for a long time.

Putting cannabis buds in oil or acids wont do anything. The cannabis has to be heated to convert the THC acid to THC. The only reason people use oils is becasue THC is fat soluble..they still have to heat it up to convert it to a active form and the oil is there to pull the THC and other cannabinoids into it. I just dont think there is any way around this..if you want to get stoned you have to heat the cannabis.
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Haha yes. There is a raw cannabis advocate and raw foodist named free love cannabis or free rob cannabis that got me interested in raw cannabis. He believes we can get high from it if we have a high raw alkalyzing diet as this may change the body to be able to digest raw plant material and even get high from it. But I believe he also does not think smoking or heat processing the herb is useful and only a perversion of the real uses of cannabis. He believes the true high from cannabis is the raw high and not the smoked or heat processed high as it "changes the chemical structure" leading to addictions and altrred states which are not beneficial.

Also who knows if perhaps inactive cannabinoids can be stored in the body for later use in the body's homeostatic priceesses ie in the case of a person deficient in endocannabinoids. Also for healing the nervous system with the perfect fats contained in the seed and highly valuable protein.

Cooking to me is alchemy. Food preparation is alchemy and very beneficial for medicine and perhaps spiritual use.:
 
jamie said:
you have to be careful when you listen to him and some other people in the raw food world..I think many people just sort of make up things as they go along, inserting it between other truths.

I like listeing to David Wolfe talk about wild water and ormus more though. Everyone has their high and low points. If it had not been for David getting Daniel Vitalis into spring water..noone would have created findaspring.com and I would probly not have gotten into wild spring water 5 years or so ago. I live 5 minutes from a spring and have been drinking only wild spring water exclusivly for about 5 years now. That has had the biggest impact on me by far..far far more than the food aspect, of course clean food is important.. Water is life. So I am thankful for David Wolfe for that. I never would have been invovled in spring hunting and building magentic water traps and all these others things if he had not been on to that whole thing years ago before anyone else was talking about it.

Caffine and cannabis were two things I had to get rid of as well. I can smoke cannabis occasionally but I had to stop my daily addiction to both of those two. Being constantly burnt out was not ideal.

There is not way to get high with raw cannabis..it has to be heated. THC and CBD are still there when raw they are just in acid form. If you juice raw cannabis leaf you can intake huge ammounts of THC acid and get all the medical effects without any psychactivity. If you consumed that much active THC you would probly pass out or go insane for a long time.

Putting cannabis buds in oil or acids wont do anything. The cannabis has to be heated to convert the THC acid to THC. The only reason people use oils is becasue THC is fat soluble..they still have to heat it up to convert it to a active form and the oil is there to pull the THC and other cannabinoids into it. I just dont think there is any way around this..if you want to get stoned you have to heat the cannabis.

"I just lose faith in the world if veganism isn't possible"

Why? Whats wrong with the way the native americans and other indigenous peoples lived for thousands of years? It is only in our western industrial culture that we began to rape the land, cut down forests in mass and torture animals. In all other indigenous cultures animals were a source of food and still respected as sacred animals. These people would be completely horrified at the way the western world tortures animals in factory farms.

it's not either or..its not vegan or animal torture. I wont get near a factory farm but I still eat wild fish that is fished sustainably, and I get organic eggs from a farmer with freerange non medicated chickens and I get raw grass fed cheese from a farmer who raises cows ethically with tons of room to walk around and graze and does not toruture the animals. It is really not as simple a picture as it seems. Factory farming is the real enemy that has bread a complete lack of resepct for other beings and the cycle of life in general. If people really cared about ending the torture and destruction they would boytcott monsanto, monocultured crops and the mainstream dairy industry etc and not just attack meat eaters in general.
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I think we don't know all that much about our history to say that we have always been ominvorous. And just because these tradotions have existed for thousand of years it doesn't tell me what existed before these practices. And as part of evolution we can always improve upon what may considered ancient. Imo in all cases I believe animal killing is just fcked up and I never agreed with it. It can be all an illusion that we have been led to believe in some false darwinian theory that the purpose of life is to hunt and kill and war. Nobody knows who or what or how these animals were created. For all we know they cd have been genetically engineered or the life cycles set up by higher lifeforms like ETs or spiritual beings. I dobt agree with it ajd it's always felt wrong. Granted in reverence to the spirits of the animals and cycles of life on earth its a lesser evil but its still an evil to me.

Plant spirits have been said to enjoy being consumed and cultivated. Its a symbiotic relationship. So is killing animals for food but one thing is for sure that on an obvious level animals show pain and suffering being killed while plants do not. We can also talk about how plants alsi have measurable suffering with scientific equipment but that is just what is observable with that equipment. There are things which are more obvious to us with our 5 senses and plus we have the spiritual side of things which can tell a different story.
 
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