Resistance to certain entheogens

[fireandice]

Hi gang,

I've been enjoying this lifestyle for seven years now. there's been ups and downs of all kinds, but what I am about to admit about myself, I am yet to hear from someone else. It turns out I'm resistant to a very high degree to mushrooms, Lucy, and as it turns out, Ibogaine.
Ive done 7g of McKennai, tried 5g of cubensis, 500ug of Lucy. With Lucy I god some laughter, and just barely a buzz. Psilocybin is somewhat better as it grounds me, but visuals are barely there. Ibogaine gave me some depth, but nothing revealing.
The only thing that works on me as described is Deemz (Changa or free base), but I am still to experience full on breakthrough. I'd appreciate anyone knowing of similar case, or having any advice on this.

Cheers

 

[The Sofa Traveler]

Hi gang,

I've been enjoying this lifestyle for seven years now. there's been ups and downs of all kinds, but what I am about to admit about myself, I am yet to hear from someone else. It turns out I'm resistant to a very high degree to mushrooms, Lucy, and as it turns out, Ibogaine.
Ive done 7g of McKennai, tried 5g of cubensis, 500ug of Lucy. With Lucy I god some laughter, and just barely a buzz. Psilocybin is somewhat better as it grounds me, but visuals are barely there. Ibogaine gave me some depth, but nothing revealing.
The only thing that works on me as described is Deemz (Changa or free base), but I am still to experience full on breakthrough. I'd appreciate anyone knowing of similar case, or having any advice on this.

Cheers

The first thing that comes to mind is: have you started any treatment involving antidepressants, benzos, or more generally, medications that have an effect on neurotransmitters?
Also, what is your frequency of psychedelics use ? Short-term tolerance with most of psychedelics is definitely a thing but there could also be a kind of tolerance related to long-term use. If tolerance term maybe doesn't perfectly fit with this scenario we could at least talk about a certain loss of magic and dulled/diminished effects of psychedelics after long-term regular use. Sometimes, in this case, having a more or less long break from psychedelics helps bringing the magic back.
Also, last but not least, what about the substances themselves, are they from same batches or have you felt this resistance with various batches ? Inappropriate storage or just them being old might also make them loose potency.
In general, did you feel this resistance since your first ever psychedelics intake ? If yes, you might be one of those (rather rare) neuro-atypic psychedelics resistants. If not, it might be related to tolerance or lifestyle changes, including medics intakes. Nevertheless, the fact you have effects on DMT makes one think you're maybe rather on a kind of long-term use tolerance with other psychedelics. Not to mention there is cross-tolerance between most of them. DMT tolerance seems to be a thing too but acts differently and in a more obscure way.

 

[fireandice]

The first thing that comes to mind is: have you started any treatment involving antidepressants, benzos, or more generally, medications that have an effect on neurotransmitters?
Also, what is your frequency of psychedelics use ? Short-term tolerance with most of psychedelics is definitely a thing but there could also be a kind of tolerance related to long-term use. If tolerance term maybe doesn't perfectly fit with this scenario we could at least talk about a certain loss of magic and dulled/diminished effects of psychedelics after long-term regular use. Sometimes, in this case, having a more or less long break from psychedelics helps bringing the magic back.
Also, last but not least, what about the substances themselves, are they from same batches or have you felt this resistance with various batches ? Inappropriate storage or just them being old might also make them loose potency.
In general, did you feel this resistance since your first ever psychedelics intake ? If yes, you might be one of those (rather rare) neuro-atypic psychedelics resistants. If not, it might be related to tolerance or lifestyle changes, including medics intakes. Nevertheless, the fact you have effects on DMT makes one think you're maybe rather on a kind of long-term use tolerance with other psychedelics. Not to mention there is cross-tolerance between most of them. DMT tolerance seems to be a thing too but acts differently and in a more obscure way.

Thank you for your reply. And no, I am not on any meds whatsoever. I have to say that I am not a frequent user, and this is something that happened from the 1st time, when I took Lucy. I wasn't even aware of the strength of the 1st tab, and had two. I barely felt anything, as I said. I believe in my source, but I've also had mushrooms that I've grown on my own. As for the Ibogaine, this was the case recently, in a clinic.
From what I understand, there is a phenomenon of calcified pineal gland, or is that just an urban story with no meaning behind it?

 

[The Sofa Traveler]

Thank you for your reply. And no, I am not on any meds whatsoever. I have to say that I am not a frequent user, and this is something that happened from the 1st time, when I took Lucy. I wasn't even aware of the strength of the 1st tab, and had two. I barely felt anything, as I said. I believe in my source, but I've also had mushrooms that I've grown on my own. As for the Ibogaine, this was the case recently, in a clinic.
From what I understand, there is a phenomenon of calcified pineal gland, or is that just an urban story with no meaning behind it?

LSD tabs potency might still be in question, whatever the person giving it to you said about their supposed strength. It's rather common that LSD tabs are underdosed compared to claimed dosage, testing showed it clearly. It's very difficult unless lab test to know the real amount of LSD on tabs. Not to mention they can anyway lose potency with inappropriate storage (heat/light). Shrooms might loose potency with inappropriate storage too, the drying process and even preparation method if drank as tea. DMT might be less prone to adulteration hence, maybe, the fact you had effects with it. Ibogaine is a very less commonly used psychedelic with weird pharmacology, I don't have experience with it so I won't comment on it specifically.
Oh and the pineal gland calcification stuff seems more related to mythology than anything else.

 

[blig-blug]

High resistance to psychedelics for whatever reason (neurological or psychological) is certainly possible. Stanislav Grof mentions needing to give up to 1000ug LSD in a few cases; he seems to have believed it to be mostly psychological, as those cases needed lower doses afterwards. Leo Zeff used LSD to establish a "baseline dose" of psychedelics in general, as he also reports some people were more resistant. He usually gave 250ug followed by 125ug boosters (250ug in cases where there seemed to be no effect whatsoever), again he reports a few people had a baseline dose of 750ug. In the case of Zeff, he seemed to believe it to be a matter of sensitivity, not psychological.

So, while uncommon, I would say it's definitely possible to have a resistance like you report.

 

[doubledog]

Not so rare, some people are nonsensitive to psychedelics.
Imo it's combination of specific metabolism and lack od ability to perceive various internal states.

My advice is to explore harmalas and also some kind of meditation.

 

[fireandice]

Not so rare, some people are nonsensitive to psychedelics.
Imo it's combination of specific metabolism and lack od ability to perceive various internal states.

My advice is to explore harmalines and also some kind of meditation.

I am just learning about the meditation. As for harmalines, and how to use them I am in complete dark All I know it is that they are MAOIs, used in Changa. Effects and usage is new to me. Are you talking about Psilohuasca?

 

[fireandice]

LSD tabs potency might still be in question, whatever the person giving it to you said about their supposed strength. It's rather common that LSD tabs are underdosed compared to claimed dosage, testing showed it clearly. It's very difficult unless lab test to know the real amount of LSD on tabs. Not to mention they can anyway lose potency with inappropriate storage (heat/light). Shrooms might loose potency with inappropriate storage too, the drying process and even preparation method if drank as tea. DMT might be less prone to adulteration hence, maybe, the fact you had effects with it. Ibogaine is a very less commonly used psychedelic with weird pharmacology, I don't have experience with it so I won't comment on it specifically.
Oh and the pineal gland calcification stuff seems more related to mythology than anything else.

I certainly appreciate your grounded answer, without rushing to conclusions. However, I've done mushrooms on three occasions, and dosing it up to 7g (McKennai) did not do the job. But yes, it was the lemon tek in question.
As I am sincerely interested in going deeper in the realms, and not so much in recreational use, would you perhaps advise on trying the higher dose, or perhaps different type of administration?

 

[The Sofa Traveler]

I certainly appreciate your grounded answer, without rushing to conclusions. However, I've done mushrooms on three occasions, and dosing it up to 7g (McKennai) did not do the job. But yes, it was the lemon tek in question.

You're welcome, I don't have the whole painting anyway, just trying to provide some avenues to explore. @blig-blug provided another interesting one above. Or maybe you could - unluckily - just be among the people who are insensitive to psychedelics due to particular brain/metabolism configuration and DMT shows a behavioral exception, maybe related to its endogenous status.

As I am sincerely interested in going deeper in the realms, and not so much in recreational use, would you perhaps advise on trying the higher dose, or perhaps different type of administration?

I wouldn't advise going higher in dose. Not to mention 7g shrooms is already a very strong dose which could have been challenging if they had worked how they're supposed to. I'd try to identify the problem first rather than having unreasonable doses. Did you ingest the shrooms after you drank the brew or only drank the brew, shrooms let apart ? (some just infuse the shrooms in lemoned water then just drink the brew without eating the shrooms they have previously strained). Also, I guess you're aware that the brew water should be hot but not boiling. Long boil could destroy most of the actives.
If you feel DMT works for you while the other not, maybe try to explore this incredible molecule with harmalas/MAOIs, the combo is very suitable for deep work. To me, aerosolized/vaped DMT with oral harmalas/MAOIs is a very good combo in this perspective and much more controllable in duration as well as in intensity than shrooms or LSD.

 

[fireandice]

I feel that the mushrooms have something to tell me. As if they suit me better then LSD. Lemon tek I followed directed for them to be chopped up, drizzled with fresh lemon juice, and then hot (not boiling) water to be poured over them as a tea. From my understanding, potency also might be an issue. I am ready to try again.
DMT works, but although I have smoked it on about 5 occasions, I have never had a breakthrough. It evades me every time, for numerous reasons. 1st time it was in form of changa, and that experience was amazing. Where would I look for the best ways to combine freebase DMT and harmalas? I thought this combo is only done in Changa as a carrier of DMT.

Forgive my ignorance, that is why I am here.

 

[The Sofa Traveler]

From my understanding, potency also might be an issue. I am ready to try again.

Yes, that's what I'm saying since the beginning, the shrooms potency could be questionable for several reasons. Maybe try to grow or get your hands on another batch AND start low again with the dose, like 2g, which is enough to feel if they work. Maybe just grind them and put them in gel caps to avoid brew preparation risks. As a precaution, don't start with another batch with a dose as high as 7g. As I said, 7g, if they work as they are supposed to, is a very high dose (some would say "heroic" dose but I don't like this term, there is nothing heroic to be beaten up by psychedelics).

DMT works, but although I have smoked it on about 5 occasions, I have never had a breakthrough. It evades me every time, for numerous reasons. 1st time it was in form of changa, and that experience was amazing.

No need to breakthrough for a deep work or enjoyable experience. Seeking at all costs the breakthrough is in my opinion a kind of misconception when DMT is taken with harmalas, sub-breakthrough dose can be as well if not more beneficial for deep work. You mention having had a great experience with changa, which is actually smokable DMT+harmalas.

Where would I look for the best ways to combine freebase DMT and harmalas? I thought this combo is only done in Changa as a carrier of DMT.

Hmm let me think about it... here ? The Nexus is THE place to be to walk your path with the DMT+harmalas combo medicine. Take time to explore the forum, you'll find everything you should know, from extraction methods to routes of administration, dosage and many more. You could learn how to make your own changa from the start, how to use oral harmalas, whether it's from caapi or harmal (syrian rue), extracted or as tea, vape or aerosolize the DMT with e-cig or other devices and so on, a lot of options are available. Feel free to start new threads with more specific questions.

 

[Molecula]

Have you ever tried fresh mushrooms? If not, you should. I work a lot with mushrooms. From experience, not everyone seems to digest dehydrated mushrooms the same way. Fresh mushrooms can be heavier on the stomach, but in terms of potency and assimilation, they work much better in my opinion.

 

[doubledog]

I am just learning about the meditation. As for harmalines, and how to use them I am in complete dark All I know it is that they are MAOIs, used in Changa. Effects and usage is new to me. Are you talking about Psilohuasca?

What I meant is that some people use harmalas (Syrian rue, Caapi or extracted alkaloids) regularly, even daily, without any addition of other plants. It is a kind of meditation with plants as harmalas by themselves do not produce strong trip, just slight alteration of consciousness.

Psilohuasca is of course another possibility. I strongly recommend to anybody to not ingest psilocin without harmalas as the combination provide great synergy and some side efects are eliminated. On the other hand, it is suitable only for people with some experience.