:d :lol:
Im just messing around guys. But yea I do think hard science is superior to philosophy
But in a fun way not a serious way. Philosophy has its numerous values. But hard science is cooler 8)
Just my 2 cents, AGAIN. But burnt, you keep saying the same thing all the time too. You don't believe in aliens and entities.. You think it's all made up by your clever mind.
True but I keep saying it often to different people. At least I think I am? My memory is not so good... with things like this...I do same to friends in real life
. Although others who have been in conversation usually are still in too. There is a reason I keep bringing it up. I want to hear everyone's opinions and ideas. Unfortunately that means I have to have the debate over and over again to get to the stage where I really get their ideas and where get mine. First we gotta get past all the definitions again all the old arguments before we can get into the nitty gritty.
I should just copy n paste? :lol:
Just becasue you can see something and touch it doesnt mean that is necessarily an accurate conception of the RELEVANCE of the thing..is relevance not important? is it not real? You can see the forest for the trees or you can see the trees for the forest..
Sure but you are still seeing the same thing with your eyes. A forest with trees in it. How you choose to feel about it is another story.
This evidence that you speak of is data skewed by biased subjective perspective so that the data fits neatly inside theory. It is not evidence it is opinion like mine. The only reason we can all agree on a very basic observable reality is because we are all on the same default serotonin trip. Like you said the chemical has the same effects on our chemistry which is 99% identical. We're all on this sober trip, and by sober I mean a drug addict can only function comfortably while on the drug. Once it ends meaning once your hominid vessel expires you'll wake up, and realize that your whole life was not 90 years or however many years. You will realize that it was only a moment of NOW in the eternal dream.
If the evidence that I am speaking of is skewed by biased subjective data to the point where its only an opinion then nearly all categories of evidence would fit into that same category of opinion. Not all evidence is so subjectively biased. 2+2=4. Thats always true. But thats not evidence thats how numbers work but still its an objective fact.
On earth gravity always makes things like rocks fall back to the ground. Thats an observation that is always true. Therefore we can say gravity is an aspect of the objective world that my perception has no realistic influence over. Even if I hallucinate a lamp floating off the ground I can know its not real because that can't happen. Furthermore anyone else in the room won't see that happen and a host of other observations can further confirm it. Even furthermore you can analyze the brain when things like this happen and see differences in relavent areas of the brain that suggest that its an illusion.
Radiowaves. We as humans have no way of knowing they exist. We have no way of perceiving photons at that wavelength. No organs at all that can sense them. Yet we know they exist. If they didn't radios wouldn't work. But we also know they exist for many many many more reasons. Another way in which we can learn more about the objective world without directly perceiving it.
Or is this all nonsense to you?
If you're looking for proof best wait till you checkout because no one right now has proof on anything...no, not even you though you might prefer your empty thoughts. We can't break through to the noumenon. Real meaning? He who believes consciousness is an empty lie is looking for real meaning? Good luck reconciling your double-think. I've said all I can to you. Good discussion... I only wish you could step outside your comfortable little box of numbers and feel what is said.
What about consciousness being only in the body makes it an empty lie? If that's really true and we are all here out of luck that doesn't make life empty. It means you can make life whatever you want with any meaning or goals you want. It means you are very fortunate to exist at all. The only part people don't like is that it means we probably have no what is traditionally called the 'soul'.
But anyway like I said before I don't need proof just a reasonable amount of evidence. You have only provided one line of evidence that were induced by hallucinogenic drugs.
Again, others are experiencing the same wall because others are on the same trip that you are on, and are physically right there with you touching it and interacting with it. That doesn't prove that the wall is there. Take away the serotonin and replace it with a lifetime dose of Substance XYZ and who's to say that wall would remain. People have been known to experience the same phenomenon when taking entheogens together in which case they can all agree upon what was there, and was not because they were there at once interacting with that same hypothetical psychedelic wall.
Your analogy to a seretonin trip is not a good one for a number of reasons. One we have a lot more going on in our brain and body then seretonin. You can genetically modify animals to not produce certain neurotransmitters or receptors and they still can perceive walls. Even if they happen to walk into them more haha
Anyway similar things can happen to humans with brain damage or with other mental illness. Walls are not visible to blind people either but they certainly exist. Your line of reasoning is just flawed I can't put it any milder.
Also concerning psychedelic users seeing similar phenomenon in groups it makes total sense without invoking any supernatural explanations. They are usually listening to the same music or sounds, on the same drug, in a similar setting, possibly in a similar mindset with regards to intention, highly sucseptable to over reacting to stimuli, highly suggestable. It would be surprising if people always only had totally different experiences.
You like others believe that this serotonin trip is more real than a DMT trip for example because you have this caveman perception that this trip lasts longer. It does not. Both are a blink in the eye of eternity of NOW. Time is an illusion. Take away the time factor and what is your crutch to lean on? This reality is beautiful but no more valid than the rest. Seeing a dream within a dream only proves you are dreaming.
Again the serotonin analogy doesn't hold up. Its not about what neurotransmitter makes reality more real or not. Its about what neurotransmitters and the structure of your brain has been selected via evolution to do. DMT is endogenous. But not typically at concentrations that make you trip. Serotonin is endogenous but not typically at concentrations that make you feel like your on MDMA. When neurotransmitters that are supposed to be present are not present or too abundant things go wrong in the brain. This is how most mental illness works. When drugs stimulate parts of the brain that are not otherwise being stimulated weird things happen. Its expected if consciousness is the result of the physical world.
In what sense is time an illusion?
