Salvia is way underrated

[echoes]

I read a lot stuff regarding Salvia, and much of it was negative and untrue in my experience.

I stopped using tryptamines some time ago because they started being too much for me.
Continued my exploration with Salvia and it brought me to best places so far.
It feels like it opens my mind to a secret hidden in plain site..
Felt like that on Psilohuasca quite often, but never "in your face" like this.
Although I realize it might be hard to "let go", maybe I'm just used to getting my ego blown to bits and don't care anymore.

I'm using plain leaf only, and menaged to break through one time with 2 full bowls. That experience was unlike ANYTHING I experienced, and I tried most psychedelics available.
But I prefer the calm in-between state where my thoughts are changed in some strange way.

I have a feeling that anyone can get very much from this teacher plant, just by respecting it and trusting it.

Also found it to have a great habit changing capability.

Would like to know what you guys think about it?

 

[Metanoia]

My favorite plant, hands down.

I also think it's very underrated and there's a lot of misinformation floating around about it. Some people I've talked to liken it to 'bath salts' and think it just drives you insane and makes you want to kill yourself..? They go by what they've heard/seen on the news so obviously they have a very incomplete picture.

Salvia is a strange and wonderful plant to ally oneself with. I totally understand all the misinformation and biased view; it's an incredibly complex experience that really takes patience and perseverance to delve deeply into. Definitely a certain measure of courage I think you can 'get used' to the intensity, the massive ego death in a way...but never completely. I've actually come to enjoy it, as bizarre as that may sound to almost everyone who has tried it :lol:

If people would forget about those silly extracts you can get in headshops and online and just give it the respect it deserves; that would definitely shift opinions. Plain leaf is the most valuable form IMO. Whether you smoke it or quid it can be incredibly beneficial in a myriad of ways.

 

[echoes]

Good to hear you are enjoying those weird places it takes us to, Metanoia. I always say to the "plant" :"I trust you, do what you want with me. Just bring me back safe." And it always does exactly that. In the breakthrough zone I heard "her" singing to me, felt very warm and loving. It might all be in the mindset. Maybe when people start fearing it after seeing all the crazy stuff on the web, it also makes the experience much more frightening and less meaningful.

Hope to try quidding it when my plants are bigger. Also read about a tincture...
When I think about it, it might be THE way to experience it. Smoking can be intense, and doesn't last long.

 

[T.Harper]

I find Salvia to be the clearest teacher around once you understand how she speaks.

Salvia's route of action seems to go under our senses to opens us up to and hit us at our core program, constrast this with the classic psychedelics which route of action is a little longer going through the senses before getting under them and then to the core.

After chewing and working with buccal mixes I find smoking the least effective way for me to work with Salvia. For me smoking seems to amplify the hardest parts: rapid onset making it unable to re-balance the worlds and then the fast ascension triggering memories related just to ascension. In the slow onset I can be much more grounded, when the imbalance/&resonace is slowly tweaked its easier to move through the worlds and see blockages-imbalanced parts of the self and then the consciousness naturaly will open up the memory channel and then this replay of memory space gets adjusted/updated to a more current model.

 

[Metanoia]

Salvia's route of action seems to go under our senses to opens us up to and hit us at our core program, constrast this with the classic psychedelics which route of action is a little longer going through the senses before getting under them and then to the core.

This is one of the best comparisons I've ever heard, couldn't agree more :thumb_up:

 

[universecannon]

I have great respect for its power. I'm far more nervous before salvia than DMT. It is just of the charts WEIRD. That bit about it revealing a secret in plain site resonates with me.

I did get some interesting things out of my smoked experiences, but I think I'll just stick mostly with quidding if I do it again.

 

[drfaust]

In the slow onset I can be much more grounded, when the imbalance/&resonace is slowly tweaked its easier to move through the worlds and see blockages-imbalanced parts of the self and then the consciousness naturaly will open up the memory channel and then this replay of memory space gets adjusted/updated to a more current model.

Tell me more about the memory aspect? I think this is key for you?

I've quidded and smoked/vaped enhanced and unenhanced leaf. I do like the "bridge of smoke" for its own sake. It is odd and elusive, but I have found it very interesting.

It does indeed destabilize or relativize the most basic body sensing, which I find fascinating and very strange. And that effect is heightened on the "bridge of smoke".

I also get a kind of discrete "frame effect" where micro-moments of awareness become discrete frames without necessarily being part of a flow or a stream. It seems to come out of nowhere or catch me unawares when what seemed my normal reality is pulled from underneath me like a rug.

In earlier days, before too many had heard of it and it was unknown to Law in any state, I felt like ska pastora was very shy and that we should not tell too many of her ways. I even had dreams that told me not to speak too much of her, as I was very enthusiastic at that time.

Salvia has proved to be shy and elusive even after all these years. That fact amazes me.

I also got intuitive insights from her that were so clear and simple that I felt I learned the meaning of the folklore that said you could use her to "find lost objects."

 

[Metanoia]

I also get a kind of discrete "frame effect" where micro-moments of awareness become discrete frames without necessarily being part of a flow or a stream. It seems to come out of nowhere or catch me unawares when what seemed my normal reality is pulled from underneath me like a rug.

In earlier days, before too many had heard of it and it was unknown to Law in any state, I felt like ska pastora was very shy and that we should not tell too many of her ways. I even had dreams that told me not to speak too much of her, as I was very enthusiastic at that time.

Salvia has proved to be shy and elusive even after all these years. That fact amazes me.

I also got intuitive insights from her that were so clear and simple that I felt I learned the meaning of the folklore that said you could use her to "find lost objects."

Oh how I miss discussions like these! When I first found Salvia it was right around when it first started to become popular in the US/Canada and Europe, around late 2004. The message boards were alight with all kinds of great discussion. I can point directly to that period as a catalyst for my current interest in philosophy.

The framing effect is something I'm very familiar with as well. The first report of someone else experiencing this that I read (besides myself) was from RedGreenVines on the old entheogen.com message boards. Except he referred to it as "Frame Stacking".
http://entheogen-network.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5468

Her shyness is beyond measure. Truly, there is some strange secretive nature to this plant. I have often speculated that all these youtube videos we've seen...all the bad experiences...they are a result of her rejecting their disrespectful approach. She does not let people in easily whatsoever. It takes some serious time to cozy up to her and get her to shed some of that shyness. If you're too forceful in your approach she will chastise you, to say the least. She is a delicate temptress; a beautifully meek façade draped over the most terrifyingly powerful essence I've ever experienced. She'll invite you in with a gentle beckoning and then proceed to pulverize everything you know of as real...then spit you out the other end like some polished stone from a riverbed.

I still have serious qualms about sharing some of my deeper experiences with Salvia. I have also been told, in no uncertain terms, that this is something to be kept secret. While I'm under the influence of Salvia and also repeatedly in my dreams. Something intensely intimate and private, almost like speaking too freely about a love tryst with someone you're not supposed to associate with. If that makes sense. :lol:

That's the best analogy I can use to convey the relationship I have: like a love affair It's what keeps me coming back over and over where others abandon her after the first or second challenging experience. Patience and perseverance. That is what it takes to win the heart of such a lovely lady, isn't it? As if eventually she'll expose all her secrets to me...but then the experience would lose that feeling of mystery, of secret privilege...

The incidences of déjà vu and inexplicable 'intuitions' have increased by something like 300% from my regular use of this plant. I still feel I haven't tapped the entire depth of these kinds of effects, even after more than a decade of use. It truly is an incredibly fascinating and complex plant.

 

[T.Harper]

Tell me more about the memory aspect? I think this is key for you?

I also get a kind of discrete "frame effect" where micro-moments of awareness become discrete frames without necessarily being part of a flow or a stream. It seems to come out of nowhere or catch me unawares when what seemed my normal reality is pulled from underneath me like a rug.

Salvia has proved to be shy and elusive even after all these years. That fact amazes me.

I also got intuitive insights from her that were so clear and simple that I felt I learned the meaning of the folklore that said you could use her to "find lost objects."

My model of is Salvia action is:


She is directly activating the Olfactory Memory,

and since
​

this triggering of Embodied Memory
is not from an actual smell,​

----------- the consciousness, searches for the connection ------------------

(((("i know this, what is this" )))


((("of course, how could i forget" )))))​

with a world that is unzipping from the inside out

Smell is the oldest sense
Smell is the strongest sense
Smell is the most powerful memory

The world around you becomes variations on a theme, no longer imbedded within the linear time stream... balance teh two poles, cycles, spinning, orientation. Disphoria, imbalance, the world around becomes these themes a symbolic template where memory has built the foundations, why are looking around the meat world....close your eyes, man. look inward. reaching back into the memories the world you exist in becomes overlayed with it. Dark visions, Saliva isnt here to seduce you with lightshows of colors and fractals..... she has no time for games. Balance the worlds, this is medicine. The film strip of multiple versions of the self, this past has lead you to this point in time..... is this model correct? Adjust your program.

 

[Metanoia]

Absolute brilliance, promote this man! :thumb_up:

I also have theorized that there is a direct connection to the olfactory sense and relational memory with Salvia.

 

[null24]

Absolute brilliance, promote this man! :thumb_up:

.

Agreed. That is beauty in form and novelty of content with rare form. And good too!:thumb_up:

 

[drfaust]

She is directly activating the Olfactory Memory,

and since
​

this triggering of Embodied Memory
is not from an actual smell,​

----------- the consciousness, searches for the connection ------------------

(((("i know this, what is this" )))


((("of course, how could i forget" )))))​

with a world that is unzipping from the inside out

Smell is the oldest sense
Smell is the strongest sense
Smell is the most powerful memory

The world around you becomes variations on a theme, no longer imbedded within the linear time stream... balance teh two poles, cycles, spinning, orientation. Disphoria, imbalance, the world around becomes these themes a symbolic template where memory has built the foundations, why are looking around the meat world....close your eyes, man. look inward. reaching back into the memories the world you exist in becomes overlayed with it. Dark visions, Saliva isnt here to seduce you with lightshows of colors and fractals..... she has no time for games. Balance the worlds, this is medicine. The film strip of multiple versions of the self, this past has lead you to this point in time..... is this model correct? Adjust your program.

Thanks so much for the creative response. It sent me on an interesting journey into researching the sense of smell and its connection to memory and emotion.

I also researched kappa-opioid agonists and memory enhancement and memory recovery and there is some research on that, but not too much I could find.

I'm interested in the connection to the sense of smell, taste, and intuition.

Smell, as the oldest distal sense is also the most diffuse and open ended, the most in need of association and intepretation. In some senses it maps well to intuition as a vague sense of something, or a hint of something.

And then we have our proximal senses, of which the most primitive is the kinesthetic sense or the sense of movement. Salvia is rich in that domain as well, which may be a part of some of its most paradoxical and disorienting effects.

“On the basis of time, we understand movement, and on the basis of movement, time” --Fink

"kinestheses are correlated only with other kinestheses." Our sense of movement and place is so basic to us and so self-referential that it cannot be an object. Movement is related to movement and very sense of being alive is a sense of movement.

Salvia, by destabilizing that most basic sense of position and movement and time, takes me to the sense of being vs. becoming.

I wonder on the connection between intuition, smell, movement, and position. Perhaps smell was the first distal sense and basic motor and position sense was and is the primary proximal sense and somehow Salvia brings a plasticity to those domains?

I do see that the sense of smell is one of the most plastic and quickly adjusting and regenerating senses. Is that true of kinesthetic sense as well?

 

[BecometheOther]

Just want to echo that I also find salvia to be among my favorite teacher plants. And growing the plant and using your own leaves adds a whole new depth to the relationship. I can now say I actually do have a close relationship with not only using salvia, but also a connection to growing the plant and the plant spirit itself.

Ive had experiences with salvia that i found to be more potent, mindblowing, and beneficial than dmt itself. Expecially when using salvia under the influence of mushrooms.... has anyone else tried this?

I was once on mushrooms and smoked salvia in the morning on the comedown, and it was so amazing. I had my eyes closed, and my field of vision filled with a mayan glyph like triangular visuals, i heard an om sound like that of throat singing and opened my eyes and was in the prescence of a vast pyramid like structure, The sensations it imparted on me i find impossible to communicate, but it had a very shamanic feeling to it. Highly recommended