Salvia realm vs. DMT realm

[MultiDimensionalTherapy]

Try a cup of ayahuacsa with a few leaves quidded.

You will see.

Well, i did something very similar!

after the 2nd coup, i decided to smoke one of my first enhanced leaf experiments with the following blend:

1g of spice
0,5g of calea
0,5g of salvia 40x extract
0,5g of pau d'arco

of course the ridiculous amount of salvia overwhelmed a litle bit the other ingredients, and then at first i really felt the salvia greeting me, talking to me, and morphing with the spirit of ayahuasca.
after that i couldnt feel either the salvia's spirit, nor the ayahuasca's. the fusion of both created a completely new "spirit", really cheerfull and joyfull!
it was the happiest ayahuasca cerimonie i ever had! and had some really interesting insights also.

 

[entheogenadvocate]

They are totally different, but there are certain kind of similar elements, like the atmosphere sometimes or some of the patterns inbetween the fabric. But in essence, dmt is a very pure awe-inspiring psychedelic, and salvia is a dissociative-psychedelic with alot of disturbing weirdness. Like if you look at their molecule structures, it's funny how they look pretty much exactly how you would imagine them feeling like.


Here's a rough example on how my salvia trip can start out:
"Hmm, things are getting weird, what is that thing over there, hmm, this is a bit too much, what should I do, I'm just gonna hold on tight, wait, hold on tight, what, hold on right, hold mold on right, hold + told / mold = tight * right? hold + old * old^wait * hmm = what = what = what = what = what..."
Which is followed by a very bizarre realm where the glitching thought train is transformed into a very intense action music and the local entities are singing and laughing at you with an insane and violent sense of humour.

Here's a rough example on how my dmt trip can start out:
"Hmm, things are getting weird, I can't feel my body, I feel like an alien, this is so familiar, just gonna close my eyes, oh my god what is that, that is so familiar, so beautiful, WHAT IS THAT, OH MY GOD THATS -- HOLY S-- NO!! REALLY?!? *%$& HOW COULD I FORGET!! @$£*#&*% OOOooOOOooooOOOO"
Which is followed by alot of extra-meaningful, jaw-on-the-floor moments, transcending abstractions, becoming universes, etc..

This is an amazing post. Thank you Daedaloops! I don't know if I've ever read a description of the salvia and DMT experience that I identify with more. Unbelievable. My mind is being flooded with vivid memories of experiences from both entheogens after reading this.

 

[JesTKiDDiN]

I was just wandering becuz I've never broke through on DMT, and when I did on salvia, it was insanely intense and not a place id enjoy going back too. Too much of a mind fuck, like that place has things that are totally fuckin with you, unless u catch on seriously that they are doing so, then they might leave you alone or grant you superconsciousness for a second.. . .or w/e

 

[gualapa]

salvia is just... well first of all its completely misunderstood, everybody things haha let's do salvia and it'll be funny. yeah, salvia does make you incredibly high but once you breakthrough, that's it... you can still move around on salvia when you're in the other realm. i'm sure everybody's seen the video of the dude who fell out the window of his apartment, while the window was closed..

I often almost forget I'm doing salvia once "lady salvia" starts to take over... it's like you lose your consciousness but in ways still have it. it has such a distinct taste and feeling, very odd. I want to explore salvia more, but one has to be cautious; there's far too many stories of ignorant people smoking too potent or too much of it and they do something stupid.

most people hate it, but they used it recreationally and not for exploratory/learning purposes. I've read some amazing reports on it on salvia-trip.net though, some very positive ones and some very 'neutral' ones, nevertheless, wild.

 

[pcrsweetness]

To those who have done salvia, is the experience completely changed by quidding? Do you think there could be another method of salvia that could significantly slow down its release, perhaps making a less intense trip?

 

[Michal_R]

... is the experience completely changed by quidding? Do you think there could be another method of salvia that could significantly slow down its release, perhaps making a less intense trip?

Yes, definitely. I would compare "smoked vs. chewed Salvia" to "smoked DMT vs. Pharmahuasca": the onset is much more gentle, and the course of the trip is more managable and navigable.

I personally don´t like smoking Salvia, but I find quidded leafs to be quite a comfortable and gentle experience.

 

[Mindlusion]

... is the experience completely changed by quidding? Do you think there could be another method of salvia that could significantly slow down its release, perhaps making a less intense trip?

Yes, definitely. I would compare "smoked vs. chewed Salvia" to "smoked DMT vs. Pharmahuasca": the onset is much more gentle, and the course of the trip is more managable and navigable.

I personally don´t like smoking Salvia, but I find quidded leafs to be quite a comfortable and gentle experience.

I definitely agree with you about quidding salvia, I never had a 'pleasant' experience smoking it, interesting nonetheless... Quidding it however, is awesome! You can experience that strange uncomfortable world of salvia, at a seemingly comfortable pace..

Though... pharmahuasca, is DEFINITELY not gentle, nor comfortable.. furthest from both those feelings, it is however, more dragged out then the smoked experience.

I would compare quidding salvia to a low dose of ayahuasca, but not pharmahuasca.

perhaps pharma could be compared to a sublingual dose of pure salvinorin? That, im not eager to experience.

 

[Abrazaderas]

i find that salvia is becoming nothing, dmt is becoming everything. but before 'going over', dmt is like salvia, but with a lifeline to existence if you can hold on. then the entire universe explodes inside your heart and you become a million supernovas. salvia is a blackhole to hell - for me. heaven for some. 'most' would make more sense but of course, not many sons'a'guns that 'like' salvia at all.

 

[jamie]

salvia..a black hole?

That just does not resonate with my experience of this plant..portal, sure..stop smoking it maybe..get a plant grow her for a few years till you have a garden and quid. I cant help feeling like most people dont know anything about salvia becasue they just buy extracts and smoke them.

I cant accept that this plant is just a plant with a psychactive alkaloid. Not after growing it for years and ingesting the leaves in late night veladas. No, she speaks with a voice owned only by her, and for those who hear her words and walk her garden, this is simply known.

Smoking this plant can be useful but the mazatec way allows for deeper empowerment. It is a plant of mystics and mages more than a plant of psychonaut trippers. Pachamamma has many voices and this world is far stranger than we know.

 

[jamie]

"I would compare quidding salvia to a low dose of ayahuasca, but not pharmahuasca."

It is nothing like ayahuasca. Two completely different things. As far as comparing intensity, salvia quids can take you right into other worlds. If its like a light dose of ayahuasca you can quid more and it will ramp up.

 

[Michal_R]

Jamie: very well written, thank you. You depicted exactly why I don´t smoke Salvia but quid it in silent darkness...

... I cant help feeling like most people dont know anything about salvia becasue they just buy extracts and smoke them.

I cant accept that this plant is just a plant with a psychactive alkaloid. Not after growing it for years and ingesting the leaves in late night veladas. No, she speaks with a voice owned only by her, and for those who hear her words and walk her garden, this is simply known...

 

[Michal_R]

I hope this is cot completely off topic of this thread. Mindlusion, could you please elaborate more on the perceived / felt difference between Pharma and Aya? I am asking for the same reason I wrote my above post: I have experienced Pharmahuasca several times, but never had any Ayahuasca yet...

Thanks!

... pharmahuasca, is DEFINITELY not gentle, nor comfortable.. furthest from both those feelings, it is however, more dragged out then the smoked experience.

I would compare quidding salvia to a low dose of ayahuasca, but not pharmahuasca ...

 

[starway6]

.....But in essence, dmt is a very pure awe-inspiring psychedelic, and salvia is a dissociative-psychedelic with alot of disturbing weirdness......

I dont have much experiance with DMT yet ..although ive tryed vapeing it 8 times with little effect...
But Ive taken 8 salvia voyages so far..and i can say that salvia isnt funny ...or a party drug at all..
salvia seems disturbing and weird to many people only because they dont recognise it for what is it ..[its mind language] im my opinion..
Salvia is a key to open a door within your own [mind universe]..
[atleast in stage 3]...To me it apears to show me a world within my own brain ..[a world of symbols]..and rich emotion!
[symbolism and emotion is the language of the human mind]..ive seen this many times in my lucid and non lucid dreams over the years..
salvia is a drug for serious minded people who dont [nessaserly want a party experiance].. but more an understanding of ones own self and the universe..and to answer the universal question of...
[WHO AM I?] really??
When salvia shows you who you really are...You will never veiw [your self]or the world the same again...
Durring One trip on 40x..I saw my self ..[in the form of pure emotion]...!
Salvia has also shown me.. [Things that always have been!].... And always will be!]
[a glimps at a true or alternate reality..
There are beings that often apeare durring a level three experiance ..not always clearly in my vision but are always close by ..always examining me..
Im sure that [dmt] is a beautyfull experiance ..but salvia can be more spiritual when one starts to understand the mind symbols durring the emotion packed experiance..
I may be wrong but.. isnt salvia a little easier on the blood pressure durring the come up?
compaired to DMTs rocket like blast off?
I have read some very good things about quidding salvia and want to try this soon...

 

[gualapa]

It is nothing like ayahuasca. Two completely different things. As far as comparing intensity, salvia quids can take you right into other worlds. If its like a light dose of ayahuasca you can quid more and it will ramp up.

very interesting. how are the effects different than smoking extract? I get the come-up would be different, but is there anything else that is different? I've been very, very curious with salvia but the danger that I've encountered smoking has left me not wanting to explore lady salvia anymore, yet there seems to be a lot more for me to understand.

 

[Metanoia]

Try a cup of ayahuacsa with a few leaves quidded.

You will see.

Well, i did something very similar!

after the 2nd coup, i decided to smoke one of my first enhanced leaf experiments with the following blend:

1g of spice
0,5g of calea
0,5g of salvia 40x extract
0,5g of pau d'arco

of course the ridiculous amount of salvia overwhelmed a litle bit the other ingredients, and then at first i really felt the salvia greeting me, talking to me, and morphing with the spirit of ayahuasca.
after that i couldnt feel either the salvia's spirit, nor the ayahuasca's. the fusion of both created a completely new "spirit", really cheerfull and joyfull!
it was the happiest ayahuasca cerimonie i ever had! and had some really interesting insights also.

Sounds like my friday and I completely agree. The two together meld into some other spirit all of it's own. Words always escape me when trying to describe it.

 

[Global]

I hope this is cot completely off topic of this thread. Mindlusion, could you please elaborate more on the perceived / felt difference between Pharma and Aya? I am asking for the same reason I wrote my above post: I have experienced Pharmahuasca several times, but never had any Ayahuasca yet...

Thanks!

... pharmahuasca, is DEFINITELY not gentle, nor comfortable.. furthest from both those feelings, it is however, more dragged out then the smoked experience.

I would compare quidding salvia to a low dose of ayahuasca, but not pharmahuasca ...

They're really not that different at all, especially if you take the same MAOI for both. If you make your pharma with DMT fumarate and use extracted harmalas, you have a reduced chance of nausea from the pharma whereas aya tends to be nauseating either way (at least for me). Anyway, I think much of the perceived difference between the two can be chalked up to a subconscious "placebo-ish" kinda deal where any biases you have relating to either of the methods will affect the way you perceive and remember the experience, and also that people like to put their experiences into nice little categories and boxes so that when they have a pharma experience and then out of the sheer unpredictability of DMT, they have an aya experience that's somehow different they like to attribute it to the different route of ingestion, but just think of all the different experiences you can have with vaped DMT. A lot of times, when I'm just vaping DMT and nothing else, it can seem like different drugs altogether from time to time.

My guess is that if you were able to administer it to them in a double-blind fashion (forgetting logistics like taking a pill vs. drinking a drink), it would turn out that people would have a statistically low probability of guessing whether or not they've been given pharma or aya.

 

[starway6]

....Ive only been able to breakthrough on dmt. Ive smoked salvia a couple times, the largest dose i tried was last night but i only got slight visuals/body buzz. I think I'm going to try again tonight with a slightly higher dose....


Slight visuals?????.....

Try smoking sally in a dark quiet room ..with relaxing music ..then close your eyes!...see what happens!

When i smoke sally...i like to play ..native american...[peyote songs]..or a cd i have called [spirit lands]...
Native american music is so spiritual!.. and relaxing ..and feels just right with salvia divinorum...!
But i really love mescaline Too ..when i can get it...

 

[Michal_R]

Thanks, Global.

They're really not that different at all, especially if you take the same MAOI for both. If you make your pharma with DMT fumarate and use extracted harmalas, you have a reduced chance of nausea from the pharma whereas aya tends to be nauseating either way (at least for me). Anyway, I think much of the perceived difference between the two can be chalked up to a subconscious "placebo-ish" kinda deal where any biases you have relating to either of the methods will affect the way you perceive and remember the experience, and also that people like to put their experiences into nice little categories and boxes so that when they have a pharma experience and then out of the sheer unpredictability of DMT, they have an aya experience that's somehow different they like to attribute it to the different route of ingestion, but just think of all the different experiences you can have with vaped DMT. A lot of times, when I'm just vaping DMT and nothing else, it can seem like different drugs altogether from time to time.

My guess is that if you were able to administer it to them in a double-blind fashion (forgetting logistics like taking a pill vs. drinking a drink), it would turn out that people would have a statistically low probability of guessing whether or not they've been given pharma or aya.

 

[Global]

Chaliponga is definitely notably different than pharma and the aya brews I've taken.

 

[Michal_R]

Could you elaborate a little on your chaliponga experience?
Thanks.