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Salvia Vs DMT

Migrated topic.
@gibran2

I respect that some people are better suited for certain substances than others. SWIMs shamanic journeys have proven to him that one person can have a substance as an ally while others find it hostile. This is very true of plant teachers. Sometimes there is a long initiation or test that must be passed before the plant accepts you as worthy. SWIM knows people who can safely use Datura Inoxia at levels that would probably kill normal people. They all had to pass a horrific testing, though, before it became benign for them. If they managed to get through the hellish demonic tests, they got to meet the "white lady" (or shiva depending on their cultural bent), and it was incredibly gentle and healing for them afterwards.

SWIM finds that the deleriant nightshades, and salvia divinorum are simply not his allies. He doesn't want to discourage others from having their own relationship with it. He is far more curious as to whether others have noticed any similar things as he did. If any of the LegoLand imagery and funhouse factory stuff rings a bell, let me know and I will tell him. If any of you have also noticed the eternity in 5 minutes that is stripped from memory like an ephemeral shadow, or had experiences where "impossible" things took place and were witnessed by sober sitters... please share this.

SWIM finds that only people who had REALLY strong extracts and were efficient in smoking them were able to manifest such awesome events. At 20x, SWIM found that one didn't really even cross over. SWIM was making stuff that was 80x or more. One batch was concentrated until it wouldn't concentrate anymore... who knows how strong that stuff actually was. SWIM certainly doesn't and never bothered to assay it.
 
Salvia isn't mentioned in the Discouraged Drugs Talk thread.

۩ what makes you think it is one of the verbotten topics? It has its own subforum for chrissake.

Somehow, this discouraged drugs thing is getting a bit out of hand. IMO. Fractal & I have been discussing the forbidding of DXM talk, even though that substance has plenty of threads and is not mentioned once in the discouraged thread either.

If Traveller wants to make a rule that only a certain list of substances can be discussed, he should just make the list finalized and be done with it. As it is now, this is a very subjective and confusing subject. I am 100% sure that if it was posted that we can only discuss X, Y & Z... everyone would comply.
 
SWIM knows people who can safely use Datura Inoxia at levels that would probably kill normal people. They all had to pass a horrific testing, though, before it became benign for them. If they managed to get through the hellish demonic tests, they got to meet the "white lady" (or shiva depending on their cultural bent), and it was incredibly gentle and healing for them afterwards.
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^This is the kind of stuff we don't want to see. Hope you can understand. Thanks. We clearly state Datura being one of them, you just missed it.
 
Sometimes there is a long initiation or test that must be passed before the plant accepts you as worthy. SWIM knows people who can safely use Datura Inoxia at levels that would probably kill normal people. They all had to pass a horrific testing, though, before it became benign for them
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The difference is, that Salvia does not kill people, but datura does. So i would certainly not put my life in line, just to get aquainted with datura. But i see your point. Just be careful guys.
 
Please don't misconstrue. I AM NOT ENDORSING DATURA.

On the contrary, I heartily advise against it in no uncertain terms.

I mentioned it only as metaphor for the concept of allies. This is completely in the context of and about Salvia.
 
Hyperspace Fool said:
If Traveller wants to make a rule that only a certain list of substances can be discussed, he should just make the list finalized and be done with it. As it is now, this is a very subjective and confusing subject. I am 100% sure that if it was posted that we can only discuss X, Y & Z... everyone would comply.
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First rule posted on the bottom of the chatroom (also applies to the forum):

Trav said:
Only 'classic' psychedelic substances should be discussed here: DMT, Aya, Harmalas, Cacti (mesc), Iboga, Mushrooms, LSD, LSA, LSH, Salvia Divinorum, Cannabis, Bufotenine and 5-MeO-DMT. If you are not sure if something can be discussed here then please ask or PM one of the moderators before you make a post.
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I thought it was pretty clear?
 
Hyperspace Fool said:
@gibran2

I respect that some people are better suited for certain substances than others. SWIMs shamanic journeys have proven to him that one person can have a substance as an ally while others find it hostile. This is very true of plant teachers. Sometimes there is a long initiation or test that must be passed before the plant accepts you as worthy. SWIM knows people who can safely use Datura Inoxia at levels that would probably kill normal people. They all had to pass a horrific testing, though, before it became benign for them. If they managed to get through the hellish demonic tests, they got to meet the "white lady" (or shiva depending on their cultural bent), and it was incredibly gentle and healing for them afterwards.

SWIM finds that the deleriant nightshades, and salvia divinorum are simply not his allies. He doesn't want to discourage others from having their own relationship with it. He is far more curious as to whether others have noticed any similar things as he did. If any of the LegoLand imagery and funhouse factory stuff rings a bell, let me know and I will tell him. If any of you have also noticed the eternity in 5 minutes that is stripped from memory like an ephemeral shadow, or had experiences where "impossible" things took place and were witnessed by sober sitters... please share this.

SWIM finds that only people who had REALLY strong extracts and were efficient in smoking them were able to manifest such awesome events. At 20x, SWIM found that one didn't really even cross over. SWIM was making stuff that was 80x or more. One batch was concentrated until it wouldn't concentrate anymore... who knows how strong that stuff actually was. SWIM certainly doesn't and never bothered to assay it.
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I honestly don’t know where you’re coming from. You say that your salvia experiences are unpleasant, then you go on to say that you consume 80X and extracts so strong that “it wouldn’t concentrate anymore”. (I’m not sure how you were preparing your extracts, but it is relatively easy to prepare pure salvinorin A.)

If you’re consuming massive doses of salvia, and then having horrific experiences as a result, why does this seem to surprise you?

A strong dose of properly prepared 80X is 5mg. Do you have a scale sensitive enough to weigh 5mg doses? Do you even weigh your doses? Why would you expect anything other than an unpleasant trip when you take a huge overdose?

From personal experience, I can say that any dose of DMT in excess of about 30mg is difficult for me. A dose of 50mg would probably be horrific. So guess what? I DON’T DELIBERATELY AND REPEATEDLY OVERDOSE MYSELF ON DMT AND THEN COMPLAIN ABOUT HOW AWFUL THE DMT EXPERIENCE IS.

Why would you think that salvia would be an “ally” when taken at overdose levels?
 
I have had out of body experiences with salvia, not sure if they were breakthroughts, but I have only used 5x extract. thats all i have tried. i believe 20x extract can take me much far away but with 5x ive gone prety far and effect has lasted for 2 hours. I think Hyperspace fool has a very strong point in the fact that certain substances suit better for certain people, for example, i was never able to any trip or traveling with LSD, not even with stupidly high doses.

on the other hand i dont think you need 80x salvia to get off. if your mind catches up with salvia even a good bong hit of leaves can give you a breakthrought.
 
Hmmmm...

@gibran2

Before I duck out of this conversation, I will clarify that SWIM grew salvia many years ago... in the mid 90's. He knew what he was doing, had access to .001g fine scales, and did not randomly overdose. He was familiar with leaves, chewing, and had built up to higher extracts with others who were experimenting with him. He began to recognize that upon using salvia, he would remember things about the previous journeys that had escaped him.... or more correctly, that the salvia beings were wiping his memory of the experiences, and that some fraction of those memories would only come back to him when he was returning to those realms.

Concerned as to what that might mean for people, and recognizing that people could be thinking their experiences were benign and simply not remembering the scary stuff... he went to great lengths to capture the truth of the situation. He began taking copious notes before and immediately after. He began engaging and training sitters to watch carefully and remember what exactly he would say to them. Only through this rigorous protocol did he manage to bring some true memories from salvia land back here. What he discovered was disconcerting. He made the decision to stop using salvia and is of the opinion that high level salvia experiences open one up to frightening alien abduction scenarios, only far worse in that they seem to last for epic periods of time during which the victim is helpless and at the mercy of some rather cold and uncaring... malicious and sadistic beings.

This is not about some masochistic desire to repeatedly overdose on a substance. Making 80x salvia does not imply that one has to overdose. One simply needs less and can easily fill ones lungs with the dose. The concentration of the extract says nothing about the weight consumed.

The inability to remember what had happened is the only reason the experience was repeated. Once the sitter reports were in, and hard won memories of the salvia world were understood... all contact with salvia ceased.

SWIM never claimed salvia as an ally. He suggested that it might be yours or that of other people who seem to like salvia. He posits that perhaps "the salvia goddess" has calmed down and is simply less hostile now than she was those 15 or more years ago. Whatever.

I'm not interested in arguing or convincing anyone of anything. If someone has something similar about heavy salvia breakthroughs to report, I would love to hear them. Specifically I am interested in whether other people have had "hallucinations" that crossed over and which sober sitters could see with their normal 5 senses.
 
adrian89987 said:
The only way that salvia and DMT are similar are in intensity and duration...and common method of ingestion.

Besides that they are worlds apart. And salvia is far far scarier to most than DMT is.

When I do salvia, it's as if my consciousness has been replaced with a new one that I do not have the instruction manual for.
With DMT, I burst into brilliant white light and merge with the universe, and it feels good. I've always disliked that Salvia body high on the other hand...extremely uncomfortable for me.

My most common experience with salvia is experiencing reality split into all of the infinitesimal moments, and the passing of each one rocks my body most uncomfortably...usually I somehow end up standing up though I never remember this happening and When I come back I am standing somewhere different than I start. Also salvia gives me a dreadful since of deja vu, as in "Oh no this again asljhasdlgbhsfg..." while I get a Deja Vu on DMT however I do not dread it at all, I feel like I'm being welcomed back into a party I had momentarily departed from.

Salvia is some powerful stuff and deserves a lot of respect, DMT and salvia both have this in common.
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OH WOW!

Thats almost word for word how i feel about salvia! esspecially "When I do salvia, it's as if my consciousness has been replaced with a new one that I do not have the instruction manual for." and the Deja Vu

Sometimes i feel like, im playing "the salvia game" but i don't know how to play,

Crazy, your experiences with salvia sound identical to mine,

You should read this thread i made on my experiences with it, The Salvia Game - Salvia Divinorum - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

esspecially this post, you might find it interesting:

Now, To explain the actual "Salvia Game". Ill do my best.

Your visiting Salvia, And your playing Salvia's Game. Basically your playing another reality, and you have to play by the rules, of this new reality. It's hard, because sometimes you have to learn it all by yourself without knowing WHAT it is. Trying to play the Game, with YOUR rules, isn't going to work. Everything is under new rules, Gravity, matter, YOUR THOUGHTS. You can't think like you normally would, its just not going to work.
In order to get the most out of the Game, you have to realize that your only just visiting, your in no hurry, and your going to want to learn.
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edit: Aww shoot :( he hasn't been here since nov 2009
 
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