San Pedro Extraction advice

[Frusciante]

So, I started my first cactus extraction following 69rons tek but I replaced the D-limo for clean strip brand Xylene which evaporated clean, it looked like a water smudge was all. I did my first pull after 3 hours with Tartaric acid which was all I had at them moment as it was to late to run out for vinegar. I thought It would work ok and then after further investigation found that Mescaline tartrate is hygroscopic or sticky? Anywho so I did my next pull after letting this one sit about 12 hours and salted with vinegar as I should have to begin with. Is there an easy way to get my mescaline tartrate solution to an acetate? Maybe basify the acid/mescaline(hopefully) solution sodium carb ,pull with xylene and salt with vinegar? Or is there any study I could do with the the tartrate salt that people are curious about since I have I would not mind at all trying to experiment.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Frusciante]

Ok, so I was confused, apparently I used Potassium bitartrate to salt the first pull, I hope I didn't mess it up.

 

[Kash]

Hmm... Well potassium bitartrate should behave pretty similar to tartaric acid once in water since it will dissociate into tartrate ions. Generally tartrate salts dry pretty well, alot better than hcl atleast. I havent heard of anyone doing this! You should let it dry and see what forms. If it forms a goo worse case, you can just redissolve it in NaOH soln, pull with a np, and pull with another acid. :thumb_up:

 

[Frusciante]

Ok cool, I was worried for a second. I have the vinegar pull evaporating now, I'll start evaporating the Potassium bitartrate tomorrow I will let you all know how it goes, any tips for cleaning the extra Potassium bitartrate from the saturated solution after I evap?

 

[Frusciante]

My vinegar from the second salt evaped down to a redish oil, not very much less than 100mg I'd say.

 

[Frusciante]

So pull two and three, the two vinegar pulls came out to 250 mg. I'm working on evaping the first Potassium bitartrate pull to see what it yields and to try and clean the extra salt if it did pull any mescaline. I'm still salting the solvent from the forth pull with vinegar.

 

[Kash]

Ya you should be able to clean the bitartrate pull initially the same way as vinegar pull, though there will probably be extra salt in it still after. Only easy way to remove that extra salt is by recrystallization.

If you want to recrystallize, you might lose alittle of it but not much. Simply put it in a glass and cover with a small amount of acetone, heat in a hot water bath with stirring. Once warm, carefully add drops of water into it with stirring until everything dissolves, then turn off heat and put glass in the freezer. Should give nice crystals if everything goes right.

 

[Frusciante]

Awesome ! Thanks For the pointers Kash! I guess it is working out good:roll:

 

[Kryll]

*

 

[Infundibulum]

Hmm... Well potassium bitartrate should behave pretty similar to tartaric acid once in water since it will dissociate into tartrate ions.

This assertion is incorrect.

Potassium bitartrate is not an acid; on the contrary, it is a conjugate base and as a base, it cannot salt alkaloids. Also, even though potassium bitartrate does give tartrate ions, this is not enough to salt an alkaloid. What an acid does is:

A. Lower the pH so the alkaloid(s) will get protonated
B. Provide anions for the formation of the corresponding alkaloid salt.

In the case of potassium bitartrate condition A does not happen, so nothing will be salted. What you say means that even sodium chloride or even sodium hydroxide can salt an alkaloid since they provide the negatively charged chloride and hydroxide anions respectively!

To the OP;if you salted with potassium bitartrate then you did not salt anything. No need to go further this route, get an acid and try again!

 

[Frusciante]

Thanks Infundibulum! So that makes sense, the first pull should contain nothing. I will evap just to be certain and continue salting with an actual acid

Yay! I'm ready to try my extract!

 

[Kash]

Hmm... Well potassium bitartrate should behave pretty similar to tartaric acid once in water since it will dissociate into tartrate ions.

This assertion is incorrect.

This is directly from wikipedia:
"Potassium bitartrate, also known as potassium hydrogen tartrate, has formula KC4H5O6. Potassium acid tartrate, also known as potassium hydrogen tartrate, is, according to NIST, used as a primary reference standard for a pH buffer. Using an excess of the salt in water, a saturated solution is created with a pH of 3.557 at 25 °C. Upon dissolution in water, potassium bitartrate will dissociate into acid tartrate, tartrate, and potassium ions."

Is this information incorrect Infundibulum? PH of 3.5 or something similar will easily protonate mescaline.

 

[Kash]

How did the bitartrate evap turn out?

 

[Frusciante]

The potassium bitartrate definitely pulled goodies, however my waiting aloud some time for a few spots of mold take hold in the solution. So I am sad that I lost my first salting due to these floaters, but it is certainly good to share with you that potassium bitartrate will pull mescaline from xylene. I have yielded a half gram of oil other than the bitartrate pull and am still salting so we will see.

It evaped down to a yellow oil, and I assume it will look just like the acetate, a red oil/tar when Its done..

 

[Kash]

So your tartrate pull evapped down to yellow oil or your acetate? You didnt throw away that first pull did you? You can easily clean out alittle bit of mold, though that is odd, how long was it sitting?

 

[Frusciante]

The tartrate pull sat out too long, it evaped down from a yellow to a red oil just like my acetate pull. I tossed it, I was afraid it might make someone sick as my Girlfriend is know to sneak into my extracts, it would be a shame for her to get sick from it.
However the tartrate looked just a little lighter in color from my acetate.
What would have been the right move to save the pull from the mold?

 

[Kash]

You couldve kept that lol... Just needed to dissolve it in some solvent, filter, and recrystallize.

 

[Frusciante]

Well lesson learned.

So I took 575 mg of red goo I salted using vinegar, covered with acetone, and added drop wise boiling water to it until it dissolved. Almost instantly after dissolving a powder formed on the bottom of the jar out of the now red solution which I sealed and put into my freezer. We will see how it goes.

 

[Frusciante]

Ok so the precipitates were separated and dried, yielding 130 mg of a much harder resin, which I believe I could break up into a powder.
From 575mg to 130mg is a significant drop, I suppose the easiest way to know what I have here is to ingest it...:?
Perhaps there is still some in the solution, I should evap and try again?
I must say, being my first extraction. I feel a little funny thinking I'm soon to take this substance, know idea if it is potent or not active at all.
The suspense is killing me, yet it will have to wait until tomorrow.

 

[Kash]

Ya there may still be some mesc dissolved in the acetone mix. Until I get a chance to work with mesc acetate, I dont have a complete picture of whats going on. If you want to get the most effects out of your extract, just evap off the acetone completely and dissolve residue in water mixing well, filter out any solids, and mix in the powder to this too.

If theres garbage in it the nasties wont dissolve in water. Filter out any solids after much mixing and you have a liquid extract ready to consume. Be absolutely sure there is no more acetone smell and do a taste test first. GL hope it goes well .