Seasonal affective disorder / winter depression

[Ufostrahlen]

I thought I start a thread regarding this topic, because in Western Europe the fall knocks on the door and once the days start to get cloudy and cold, my mood goes down. And who needs a bad mood or lack of motivation? I tried various substances like pharmaceutical St John's wort extract, Tryptophan, DL-Phenylalanin, Vitamin D and MDMC over the years, but they didn't really help or just provided a temporary relief.

This year I bought a 10,000 lux day light lamp and I'm really looking forward to use it, since last year I used high power LEDs in my room and the depressive mood wasn't that strong as in the years before.

That's the model I bought (German video, but you get the idea of the lamp anyway)

[YOUTUBE]

Do others like to share their recipes against Seasonal affective disorder?

 

[null24]

We share a very similar climate. Here in Cascadia, the clouds roll in and stick around for nine months or so.

That signals the beginning of outdoor harvest and active mushroom season. That keeps me busy up until about solstice, when the seasonal ale drinking goes into effect...:lol:

 

[Swarupa]

I've always found winter to be a very introspective period where it's natural to feel a little sadness, i actually quite like this time for reflection and take it as part of the natural ebb & flow of the seasons.

That signals the beginning of outdoor harvest and active mushroom season.

You took the words right out of my mouth null, i find it no coincidence the way that the autumn rains bring with them lovely psilocybes just in time for winter, mushrooms can perfectly compliment those long silent dark winter evenings, wrapping up nice & cozy within the shelter & warmth of home...

I've found that psilocybin in particular works phenomenally in darkness so i don't mind the days drawing in getting darker earlier, it also means the stars come out much earlier too with those crisp clear winter skies. Looking back at the history of my mushroom experiences, even when i homegrew cubensis and had never picked a wild mushroom i always seemed to come back round to them just in time for winter.

 

[Al-Wasi]

It's my.opinion that all these so called disorders are manufacture by psychologist and big pharma to prescribe more drugs. It's no coincidence the DSM has quadrupled in size since its first edition along with anti depressive psychotic anxiety drugs being prescribed way more often.

Any person in this world can walk in a office and walk out diagnosed and with a script.

Don't let lies of the white coats truly affect you is my idea. Yes maybe season. Change may have some.Impact. but I think most of this is placebo and powr of suggestion.

Take back your own mind. If you are that affected find a natural way to shake it off. More exercise reading dojf what you love etc.

Tossing these terms around I think only compounds these issues. And helps others to think the same of themselves.

 

[Wolfnippletip]

My prescription? MOAR Cactus, and ride a bicycle. Ride it a lot.

 

[Koornut]

@Ufo
Do LED arrays replicate enough of the warmth (temp) that the sun would typically generate?

 

[inaniel]

placebo or not, i feel the same way. it sucks because the winters here in north texas (seem at least) to be getting much more harsh and longer lasting. I've never been to a funny mind doctor but have noticed the effects the past three or four years especially. How much does that fancy machine cost, Ufostrahlen?

 

[null24]

It's my.opinion that all these so called disorders are manufacture by psychologist and big pharma to prescribe more drugs. . .

Tossing these terms around I think only compounds these issues. And helps others to think the same of themselves.

I tend to agree with you, but SAD isn't really a disorder that is prescribed to. Rather most of the professional advice is along the lines of your suggestions, or taking vitamin D supplement, or the sun lamps in the OP.

The lack of sunlight in northern climates leads to a lack of production of vitamin D, and that has been shown to negatively affect mood. Add in weeks of rain and days that only last a few hours and depression can get a pretty good hold.

I don't think the OP or anyone else who has difficulty staying in a good mood throughout dark winters is simply buying into big pharma, nor do i think that OP is 'owning a diagnosis'. Peace!

 

[Ufostrahlen]

placebo or not, i feel the same way. it sucks because the winters here in north texas (seem at least) to be getting much more harsh and longer lasting. I've never been to a funny mind doctor but have noticed the effects the past three or four years especially. How much does that fancy machine cost, Ufostrahlen?

Mine did cost ~ $90USD. You can get cheaper ones (~60USD), but I liked the design and the extra wide base. Also the doc urged me to get one with a medicinal certificate, so he can later rule out the lamp if it doesn't work. Safety issues due to UV light is also an concern.

[deleted] DIY solution may cause damage due to UV light, I doubt it's cheaper anyway [/deleted]

@Ufo
Do LED arrays replicate enough of the warmth (temp) that the sun would typically generate?

Nope, they are very cool. I currently have fluorescent tubes in my daylight lamp (2x36W) and replaced the normal light bulbs with LED bulbs to save on energy. You fool your photoreceptors in the eye to think it's summer with the intensive blue white light.

Read more here: Light therapy - Wikipedia

It's my.opinion that all these so called disorders are manufacture by psychologist and big pharma to prescribe more drugs. It's no coincidence the DSM has quadrupled in size since its first edition along with anti depressive psychotic anxiety drugs being prescribed way more often.

100% not manufactured. It really sucks lying in bed not being able to have a goal or being able to accomplish anything. It's just the body that doesn't produced enough neurotransmitters / overproduces melatonin because of the dark season. I had this over 5 winters, until I changed the lights and talked to a doc. Above substances didn't help and psychedelics just helped for ~ 5 days and I then I was back where I started. Call it hibernation, but you don't earn $ with hibernation. "Hey boss, I come back in May when the weather is better... Sure dude, I pay your bills in the meantime... lol."

Also my doc didn't want to prescribe me pills (I'm not from the US), he suggested to try a lamp first. I found that rather annoying, because his bills were expensive and I like pills. :x :d

The lack of sunlight in northern climates leads to a lack of production of vitamin D, and that has been shown to negatively affect mood. Add in weeks of rain and days that only last a few hours and depression can get a pretty good hold.

I don't think the OP or anyone else who has difficulty staying in a good mood throughout dark winters is simply buying into big pharma, nor do i think that OP is 'owning a diagnosis'. Peace!

Indeed! This has nothing to do with big pharma. It's not that big pharma has a personal switch in my body that gets tossed when they need more money.

It's like saying that big pharma invented the common cold to sell more medicine. Some are more affected, some are less. I get a cold per winter, but I know of persons that are sick all winter long. Everyone is different. Also sunshine and suicide correlate: Direct effect of sunshine on suicide - PubMed

 

[Metanoia]

While I don't think it's placebo or suggestion causing these mood issues I do think it's our tendency to stay inside and go out less that really can have a negative impact.

I used to get bouts of depression that would ebb and flow with the seasons until I started to go on nature hikes and do bird watching and nature photography, year round :d In Canada that means hiking out in the stark cold tundra during January and February to enjoy the nature and what little wildlife is out and about.

From doing this my seasonal affective disorder is essentially cured. I know a lot of people don't like to go out in the rain and snow. And when it's completely overcast and there isn't much of any sun it can and does have an affect on many people's moods. But getting out in nature during those months where you would normally just hunker down and hibernate is what really helped me get over that years long slump of getting depressed every mid-fall/early winter.

 

[jamie]

I feel much more comfortable and relaxed in the wet, gloomy days of fall and winter than I often do during the summer. I like the rain, actually.

I wonder if people are just not changing with the seasons, because we are made to be like robots. Winter is a dreaming place, a time where the world settles down for that long hibernation. There is a special kind of aliveness to the world during this time of year for me. It looses that spring vigor and becomes more transparent, but animated with the soul of the thing as it begins to dream.

It makes sense to me, that when forced to go on like a robot as if the seasons don't effect us, that we become sick.

 

[null24]

I feel much more comfortable and relaxed in the wet, gloomy days of fall and winter than I often do during the summer. I like the rain, actually.

.

I'm so there with you, i live here for a reason.

Perhaps what i label as 'depression' in some circumstances is just what you're saying.

We separate ourselves from the natural cyclical nature so completely that we diagnose it as illness. :lol:

 

[travsha]

I live in Seattle - plenty of rain and clouds here, but it doesnt bother me at all.... I love the changing seasons.

One of my favorite parts about winter and the colder months is that everyone else is for some reason scared of rain, so when I go to the park I get the whole place to myself. Super quiet and peaceful - I love it. I love the feeling of being real bundled and warm on a cold wet day. I think part of the key to learning to enjoy winter is to get good outdoor clothes and not lock yourself inside. More then less sunlight I think the cabin fever really gets people down - they get too stationary and locked into their houses.....

Get some warm shoes that are good in the water, a big warm jacket and a warm hat - you will be fine all year. Works better then vitamin D - believe me

(mushrooms in the dark also sound like a good option!)

 

[○]

I live in Seattle - plenty of rain and clouds here, but it doesnt bother me at all.... I love the changing seasons.

One of my favorite parts about winter and the colder months is that everyone else is for some reason scared of rain, so when I go to the park I get the whole place to myself. Super quiet and peaceful - I love it. I love the feeling of being real bundled and warm on a cold wet day. I think part of the key to learning to enjoy winter is to get good outdoor clothes and not lock yourself inside. More then less sunlight I think the cabin fever really gets people down - they get too stationary and locked into their houses.....

Get some warm shoes that are good in the water, a big warm jacket and a warm hat - you will be fine all year. Works better then vitamin D - believe me

(mushrooms in the dark also sound like a good option!)

You sound exactly like myself haha.

Im in a state up near the Great Lakes and the change of season here is pretty wide. Those first days when it dips down from 75-85f to 50-60f, the gray clouds roll in, giving everything this 'chill' overtone, especially when out hiking; I live for it haha. Love the hooded sweatshirts, comfy sweat pants, the whole bit. It's actually where most of my memories with psychedelics are from - fall time/colder weather/winter.

I love going to the state parks when it's a rainy day or when the sky is littered with massive gray clouds - seems to deter people from going 98% of the time.

Yeah, being bundled up in a house consistently can really wreck the mind. I think travsha gave some great recommendations. Invest in some warm comfy clothes and whatever else you may need. You may not learn to 'love' it or anything of that nature, but I guarantee that if you willingly put yourself out in that environment and find various activities that you like, you can learn to be copacetic with it or even enjoy it.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

I'm pretty sure it has to do with the light. The place we evolved, and lived for most of our time on Earth, doesn't have extreme changes in day or night, since it's equatorial. I'm fine with chronic rain/clouds, it's the getting dark at 4:30 that I find really distressing. The summer is the same way, if it's still light after about 9:30, I start to feel out of whack. Like there's a deep sense of 'wrongness' pervading everything.

My OCD is worse in the summer, so I look forward to Fall and Winter for relief from that though.

Blessings
~ND

 

[Metanoia]

I've often wondered about environmental factors that influence us over generations. I was born and raised in Canada so I'm used to cold winters and such, but I know exactly what Tatt and travsha are talking about here. The grey overcast skies, the hooded sweater, it just totally energizes me and I want to be outside in that kind of weather. Think Scottish Highlands Which is where my ancestors were from.

But having never lived there I still feel this deep connection to the rainy grey skies and mountain ranges. I could live the rest of my life happily in that kind of environment and not miss sun and sand one bit :lol:

Perhaps we're all different in terms of preferences towards certain weather patterns or certain geographical environments.

I remember being extremely fascinated reading about how all our subtle differences came about. We adapt to survive and in doing so those traits carry on down the generations.

 

[HumbleTraveler]

I too, as of maybe the past 5 years, get really down during the cold winter months. It seems so long and dreary! I NEED clear blue skies, warm/hot long days. I just love that. I can agree to an extent that it's naturally a bit of a sad time. Everything in nature dies off and withers away, it is a great time for quiet introspection to prepare for the warm months coming again. But I feel like theres 9 months of crap cold grey gloomy weather and like 3 months of beautiful clear days lol.

I know its all changeable if I change my perspective on it...but, snow sucks. Cold sucks. Period haha.

 

[Ufostrahlen]

Hooray for big data. Invention by big pharma? I don't think so.

https://www.google.com/trends/correlate/search?e=id:u4WEFVag_a7&t=all#

PS: The lamp is great. Switches off melatonin production effectively. Make sure you get at least 600 lux of fluorescent light.

MELATONIN IN HUMANS
AMNON BRZEZINSKI, M.D.

sci-hub.bz

In normal subjects, exposure to light inhibits melatonin
secretion in a dose-dependent manner. The
threshold is 200 to 400 lux (equivalent to ordinary
fluorescent light), and maximal inhibition occurs after
exposure to intense light (600 lux or higher) for
one hour.

 

[drfaust]

I thought I start a thread regarding this topic, because in Western Europe the fall knocks on the door and once the days start to get cloudy and cold, my mood goes down. And who needs a bad mood or lack of motivation? I tried various substances like pharmaceutical St John's wort extract, Tryptophan, DL-Phenylalanin, Vitamin D and MDMC over the years, but they didn't really help or just provided a temporary relief.

This year I bought a 10,000 lux day light lamp and I'm really looking forward to use it, since last year I used high power LEDs in my room and the depressive mood wasn't that strong as in the years before.

That's the model I bought (German video, but you get the idea of the lamp anyway)

[YOUTUBE]

Do others like to share their recipes against Seasonal affective disorder?

Thanks friend, for initiating this thread and for sharing your experiences and experimentation. I'm looking at the SAD lamps and I see some full spectrum ones and some blue ones. I'm not sure what the best approach is. I'm looking for portability and flexibility as well as good craftsmanship.

The big day light lamps look a little too big and bulky for me. Are the small blue lights not as effective in your opinion?

 

[Ufostrahlen]

Thanks friend, for initiating this thread and for sharing your experiences and experimentation. I'm looking at the SAD lamps and I see some full spectrum ones and some blue ones. I'm not sure what the best approach is. I'm looking for portability and flexibility as well as good craftsmanship.

The big day light lamps look a little too big and bulky for me. Are the small blue lights not as effective in your opinion?

Hey, you're welcome. The reason why I bought this huge lamp is that it illuminates the whole room instead of just aiming the eyes. It serves both needs, medicine and function. I also use it as lamp for reading.

Wikipedia says:

A 1995 study showed that green light therapy at doses of 350 lux produces melatonin suppression and phase shifts equivalent to 10,000 lux white light therapy,[35][36] but another study published in May 2010 suggests that the blue light often used for SAD treatment should perhaps be replaced by green or white illumination, because of a possible involvement of the cones in melatonin suppression.[37]

Light therapy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Maybe this helps with your buying decision:

* Low-intensity blue-enriched white light (750 lux) and standard bright light (10 000 lux) are equally effective in treating SAD. A randomized controlled study
* Lux vs. wavelength in light treatment of Seasonal Affective Disorder
* Blue light from light-emitting diodes elicits a dose-dependent suppression of melatonin in humans