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Seeking Clarification.....

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FusionOracle

FusionOracle

Rising Star
Hi Nexus community.

Thanks for all the great reading material to date, SWIM is nearly ready for a hypothetical extraction to play out in his minds eye and his materials were hard to come by so he wants to make the most of this.


He will be following the DMT Handbook using powdered MHRB but only 1.7 kg (2p) - since this is a slight reduction in "product" qty from what is used in this tech will the other qty's have to be altered (obviously if 1/2 was used this would be so, but since he is looking at roughly a 15% reduction here is a reduction in all materials necessary????)

He is also seeking clarification on a couple more points...

Firstly since he will be using a powdered product instead of a bark product does anyone have any good ideas on how to best filter between acid cooks???? SWIM is thinking of simply letting the pot rest for 1/2 an hour after each cook then pouring off MOST of the liquid through a funnel with coffee filters (leaving 10% in the pot with as much of the left over powder-mush as possible), before topping the pot back up with acidified water and adding back to the solution anything that was picked up by the filters. He plans to evap down the final product of all cooks then let it sit over night before decanting to ensure as much gunk as possible is removed. Is this the best way to go about things ??? Has anyone had any experience with this???? Also does the final solution need to be completely clear of any bark particles before proceeding with basification??? - would contamination here be pulled into the solvent?????

During SWIMS readings he has also come across many comments stressing the importance of temperature during basification / solvent pull. Is this referring to solvent, basified solution or both???? There will obviously heat produced during the initial basification but should hot water baths be used in subsequent pulls and to what extent??? eg. a hot water bath only before the pull or during also???
(SWIM also intends to heat his solution prior to basification - as it would have cooled overnight to decant - is this correct????).

This tek consists of 3 solvent pulls to a total of 1 L of solvent. Is there any merit in doing any more pulls to produce a second batch???? If so would the method for the pulls differ from the initial - such as leaving for a longer period of time before separation???


Finally the Handbook only does one freeze precipitation from the final solvent collection. Should more freez percips be attempted and how should this be done???
Evaping the solution then putting back into freezer / what is the best way to evap the solvent and how much should be evaped??????


Jeez SWIM asks alot of questions......


Thanks Nexions.
 
FusionOracle said:
He will be following the DMT Handbook using powdered MHRB but only 1.7 kg (2p) - since this is a slight reduction in "product" qty from what is used in this tech will the other qty's have to be altered (obviously if 1/2 was used this would be so, but since he is looking at roughly a 15% reduction here is a reduction in all materials necessary????)

2 Pounds really? For his FIRST extraction? I'd definitely tell him to tone it down, to maybe 100g. Or even 50g, just so he could get the idea....

During SWIMS readings he has also come across many comments stressing the importance of temperature during basification / solvent pull. Is this referring to solvent, basified solution or both???? There will obviously heat produced during the initial basification but should hot water baths be used in subsequent pulls and to what extent??? eg. a hot water bath only before the pull or during also???

During. I like to soak my stuff in the tub (because my sink is always full) for awhile then shake them, then set them back in the tub (of course it's high with water) until they separate and then I take them out and pull right away.

This tek consists of 3 solvent pulls to a total of 1 L of solvent. Is there any merit in doing any more pulls to produce a second batch???? If so would the method for the pulls differ from the initial - such as leaving for a longer period of time before separation???

I'm not sure what the tek exactly is, but a good rule of thumb is 100ml for 1g of spice you expect to get out. The first pull can be done right away (Shake it up for about 5-10 mins, the let separate and then pull). The second pull should probably sit a little bit longer (Shake it up 5-10, let sit 15~, shake again, let separate, pull). The third I'd shake, sit over night (while periodically shaking) then whenever I got around to it the next day; throw it in a heat bath, shake, let separate, and pull. Thats just me though.


Finally the Handbook only does one freeze precipitation from the final solvent collection. Should more freez percips be attempted and how should this be done???
Evaping the solution then putting back into freezer / what is the best way to evap the solvent and how much should be evaped??????

I would do three freeze precips, although they are not necessary. I'd collect all from pull 1, freeze it w/o evaping. Then if I seen xstals in the bottom of the container, I'd pour off the naphtha, and use that naphtha for my second pull. While my second go was bathing, and after my xstals dried, I'd scrape up all I could, put in another container to dry even more, and then take the pulls from the second and put in the same container (I would do this because there would still be some DMT I probably didn't get, and would make the naphtha that much more saturated). Then I'd put that in the freezer, and repeat for pull 3 and 4 and 5. (I do pulls until theres no more visible DMT in the precip)
Also, if there is no visible xstals after freezing, then I'd evap 50%~ and re do it. And then repeat all the processes.
Click to expand...


Sorry couldn't answer a couple of your questions, as I don't do A/B extractions, only STB so far. So I'm not to knowledgable in that department. But I hope I helped somewhat :)

Again I want to say, tell him NOT to start off with SO MUCH. Theres really no need.
 
hey fusion oracle,
not to keep banging this drum but i agree with kevyn that extracting 1.7 kilos is a bad idea. also i would bet its going to raise some eye brows around the community here because its not logical to need that much dmt for personal use all at one time. the amount your friend is extracting with no prior knowledge is a not so unfamiliar trend of people wanting to distribute dmt to others something not in alignment with the nexus attitude.

im not saying anyone is or isn't im just saying warning flags go up with these quantity's .
 
Ditto. Unless you go absolutely spice crazy, it's unlikely that you yourself will go through that amount in a lifetime. Plus, you are going to make extraction mistakes which will iron out with some practice. As your work materials were so hard to come by, why waste an enormous amount when you can first hone your skills with some practice runs? Work out the kinks with something small, see if you even like the experience, and then you can always scale up.
 
During SWIMS readings he has also come across many comments stressing the importance of temperature during basification / solvent pull. Is this referring to solvent, basified solution or both???? There will obviously heat produced during the initial basification but should hot water baths be used in subsequent pulls and to what extent??? eg. a hot water bath only before the pull or during also???
Click to expand...

More heat will allow more alkaloids to transfer from mimosa to solvent. Hot water from the sink works.


And I would agree about reducing the size of the extraction. You may find that 200mg of spice is enough to show you everything that you wanted to see. You can always make more if needed, but it's hard to stop people from being alarmed by such quantities.
 
Thanks for the answers.

Just to clarify swims position, he was attempting a large scale extraction for 2 reasons;

1stly for consistency in line with the tek been followed

2nd because there is a small number of swims with a vested interest. Swim will not be distributing, let him make that clear. All swims are equally involved here from start to finish, therefore nothing can be distributed as no one swim is the owner. Swim thinks it makes more scense for parties with a common goal to collaborate, share and pool resources and knowledge. He hopes this does not displease the community. He just wanted to honestly state the intention here to avoid raising eyebrows based on false assumptions.

He is however convinced now to scale down the hypertherial operation.

His question still remains though, does anyone have any advice relating to the acid cook and retaining as much powder as possibly between batches. Anyone else able to offer some advice??

Thanks.
 
Glad to hear you are scaling down (even with 100g mhrb mixture, you can get enough for 5+ people).

Well, I don't quite understand what your saying, but maybe I do. I'd imagine just stuffing coffee filters in a funnel and slowly pouring the water/powder in there. When the waters mostly drained out just squeeze the filters on the powder to get the most out of it. Then you should only have powder. When I say filter(s) I mean 3-5.
 
In answer to your a/b question, my imaginary octopusbird friend, Mr. Happy, likes to decant as much as possible before scooping up the wet powder mush into a t-shirt and then wringing out completely between boils. He will usually do three separate boils, then freeze the plant matter rock solid over night before a fourth and final round. You will then want to let the collected liquid sit overnight to settle, and decant once again through a filter.

Mr. Happy also likes to do three defatting pulls prior to basification and a sodium carbonate wash prior to re-x (two or three cycles) with heptane. Whatever you do, skip the ammonia wash. Mr. Happy says it's a yield killer.
 
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