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severe anxiety - mushrooms microdosing fail, thinking about a trip

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Space88

Rising Star
Hi, I have been suffering from social anxiety, GAD, depression and panic attacks for many years. I have tried about 50 different pharmaceuticals with various therapies without any success.

Basically, my plan was starting microdosing with mushrooms, wait for results and if there will be some positive changes I planned to start with intensive CBT training program again (I already tried CBT for last 5-7 years with some breaks). During microdoisng, I also wanted to reduce my benzos intake.

S far, I have tried microdosing with Amazonian cubensis for 3 times (taken every 4th day) and it seems like this is not for me. I have tried 0.2 for once and then 0.1 twice. In both cases it was very intense (I probably accidentally tripped a little on 0.2 ). With 0.1 dose it was a lot less intense, but I still felt quite unpleasant, strange and mentally uncomfortable. I felt dizzy with my eyes kind of blurred. I also felt little bit irritated, angered (without the reason), maybe also kind of overstimulated but in a negative way (paradoxically I wasnt able to focus on a task). In both cases I needed to take benzos to calm down a bit.
When i microdose i have a feeling like I am detached from reality, like I am living in a bubble or something (it’s kind of strange and unnatural feeling). I also feel like it is a lot harder to focus, probably because of rapid movement of my eyes. I also had some scary feelings and slight panic attacs and my mood swung.I didnt see any improvement in anxiety or depression during that period, and my anxiety definitely raised on a microdosing day.

Now i rather thinking about mushroom trip than continue my trial with microdosing. So far i do not have much experiences with psychedelics but for example I tried iboga flood about a year ago. I didnt get much success with iboga, I was more conscious and felt joy for a few weeks or so but that’s about it.

As for mushroom trip, I definitely do not want to end up in even worse condition than i am now, but i really dont know were to go next ? I feel like i have tried everything possible to this point and basiclly i have nothing to lose.

What do you think about magic mushroom trip in my case? Thanks.
 
Space88 said:
I also wanted to reduce my benzos intake.
Click to expand...

Benzodiazepines are totally contraindicated when it comes to the therapy of most psychological disorders, especially when it comes to anxiety!!!

!!!

I can not make enough exclamation marks here.

Colleagues often prescibe these kind of drugs because they dim the unwanted symptoms pretty fast, but the direct draw back (f.e. high risk of dependence and abuse / it neurological hinders our brain in the process of learning /.. and many more) from its useage is mostly much higher than the desired shortterm relief.


tseuq
 
yes, you are probably right about Benzodiazepines abuse and dependance, but i didn’t take them prior to microdosing. I usually take about 0,5 mg of Xanax SR/ DAY. I am trying to keep dosage as low as possible. Besides BZDs i didnt take any other drugs.

This week i have started taking Tianeptine, i take 3 x 12.5 daily.
 
I'm sorry to hear you are having problems. Great that you are taking matters into your own hands and are rather cautious about it. I do not believe that microdosing mushrooms is the way to go though. It can be interesting if you are already in a good place, but it might just enhance your negative feelings at that dose.

A real trip might be better, but at least in my experience, mushrooms can make you feel very vulnerable emotionally. This is OK, but something such as ayahuasca ( a lot of capi and just a little DMT) is much more "guided" in my experience.

That being said, i've had healing experiences with both. With mushrooms, a smile can be infectious and you can really infect others if you are happy. This in itself can be a good experience.

As for social anxietis in particular, nothing beats a small dose of full spectrum san pedro cactus extract. Just a tiny bit. San Pedro is recommended because his more sedating alkaloids kind of ramp down the upness of the mescaline. I swear, low dose san pedro extract somehow manipulates the space-time continuum and makes you interact with people...friends, family.....but especially random people who seem to materialize in front of you.

Really cool for microdosing but also expensive.
 
Some reading regarding DMT, yagé, and psychedelics relating to depression.

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Long-term use of psychedelic drugs is associated with differences in brain structure and personality in humans.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Long-term use of psychedelic drugs is associated with differences in brain structure and personality in humans - PubMed

Psychedelic agents have a long history of use by humans for their capacity to induce profound modifications in perception, emotion and cognitive processes. Despite increasing knowledge of the neural mechanisms involved in the acute effects of these drugs, the impact of sustained psychedelic use...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Ayahuasca Psychedelic Tested for Depression

A pilot study with the shamanic brew hints at its therapeutic potential
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com

Ayahuasca and depression

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Our results suggest that ayahuasca may have fast-acting and sustained antidepressive properties. These results should be replicated in randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trials.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Antidepressant Effects of a Single Dose of Ayahuasca in Patients With Recurrent Depression: A SPECT Study - PubMed

Ayahuasca is an Amazonian botanical hallucinogenic brew which contains dimethyltryptamine, a 5-HT2A receptor agonist, and harmine, a monoamine-oxidase A inhibitor. Our group recently reported that ayahuasca administration was associated with fast-acting antidepressive effects in 6 depressive...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


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-eg
 
obliguhl said:
As for social anxietis in particular, nothing beats a small dose of full spectrum san pedro cactus extract. Just a tiny bit. San Pedro is recommended because his more sedating alkaloids kind of ramp down the upness of the mescaline. I swear, low dose san pedro extract somehow manipulates the space-time continuum and makes you interact with people...friends, family.....but especially random people who seem to materialize in front of you.
Click to expand...

Maybe because of its empathogen component found in the mescaline, just guessing.

Safe travels, tseuq
 
Space88 said:
Hi, I have been suffering from social anxiety, GAD, depression and panic attacks for many years. I have tried about 50 different pharmaceuticals with various therapies without any success.
Click to expand...
Where do you think your depression and anxiety come from??
Because my depression came from school and the other pupils mostly. So naturally when my schooltime ended the depression ended too. What also helped is that I could finally sleep as much as I wanted.
Because my severe sleep deprivation (i slept only around 5-6h a day) the depression was only worse and each morning before school was a little hell on its own.

If you could shine some light on the reasons you are depressed maybe we could help and circumvent all the chemicals no matter how harmless they are. Because you cannot really rely on something for your whole life except yourself and your mind.
 
I have had social anxiety my whole life. At times it can be really bad. Personally, I have found that there is one substance that I recommend above all others for really getting in touch with yourself and seeing your anxiety/trauma etc for what it is - MDMA...When done with proper preparation etc and not abused. MDMA has changed the way I feel..not just how I think or on some level of intellect..it changed how I feel.

From there I would move on to mescaline and LSD next..and then psilocybin. If I had to have only two substances I think I would pick mescaline and psilocybin, but MDMA is incredible at what it does. It seems that after MDMA, other psychedelics(esp mescaline) can bring you back into that same place and then you can work on it more.

Psilocybin for me is my ultimate entheogen, but it can be pretty deep and far out so laying some ground work with empathogens would be my preference for dealing with issues like anxiety and trauma.

Don't mix MDMA with pharma medications.

I also like that with MDMA you cant really microdose the stuff or abuse it and still benefit. It's a rare thing and then you have to take some action in life after. All psychedelics are like this but MDMA demands it, IMO.
 
Thanks for your advice and support I appreciate it.

Yeah, after i have read so many positive reports and articles about microdosing, I was thinking like this must be the holy grail, but after those 3 trials i literally hate it! As obliguhl mentioned, if i would be in a better place, setting it clould be a different story. The first time was really horrible i took only 0.2 but i was tripping, got panic attacks, anxiety went through the roof and I just wished it would all end soon and I would be in my normal state again. On 0.1 I wasnt tripping but it was far from something like pleasure, wellbeing or just normal state.

My biggest problem is social anxiety or now even worse, social isolation and avoidant personality disorder. Depression is as a result of social phobia, isolation and life what i am living.. I think my biggest issue is severe anxiety and then depression.

Ayahuasca is somethink i want to try for a very long time and i already know about some providers and especially at this time, in summer there are some events. However, i need to be clean off drugs and recently i have started with tianeptine because my level of anxiety and depression has become unbearable. Before Aya, I think i need to be clean off benzodiazepines too, which i see as a bigger problem for now.

As for mushrooms trip, there are some people who recommended me to try it but some other recommended to stay away from it... i have read about some people with anxiety, depression etc. who tried trip on shrooms, and these reports seem to vary a lot... some even mentioned „I wish I never did shrooms“.... it seems kind of scary. I am not scared of bad trip and intense anxiety ( i have some experiences with it) and i have even tried iboga flood .... but i am a lot more scared of some permanent changes in a negative way, like worsening depression, anxiety, more frequent or even aggravated panic attacks etc.... some people mentioned these negative aspects as a result of bad mushroom trip.
 
As for MDMA, i was quite interested in it mostly after i have read about a study with mdma as a possible therapy for PTSD but i am really scared of addiction and abuse. There was an episode in my life when i was addicted to phenylethylamine in combination with selegiline (MAO-B inhibitor), i dont wanna end up in the some route... I would rather stick with natural stuff like shrooms, iboga, ayahuasca, san pedro. The other peoblem is that i dont even know from where to get it? And if i would even manage to find a provider for it, there are some other questions like the purity of stuff...
 
Ulim said:
Space88 said:
Hi, I have been suffering from social anxiety, GAD, depression and panic attacks for many years. I have tried about 50 different pharmaceuticals with various therapies without any success.
Click to expand...
Where do you think your depression and anxiety come from??
Click to expand...

it has probably started during my childhood, and when my cousin ofen took advantage of my respect for him that time ( I perceived him as authority and I was in awe of him). He was very good in defent his opinions and he often humiliated me in this way and mostly before my parents who always agreed with him (because he is very inteligent, smart and at the same time self-important person). I was also bullied during the time i go to primary school (that time I also suffered from severe OCD – washing hands). I have never had any real friend in my life and I dont have a good relationship with my father
 
I trust mushrooms.
The comeup is always anxiety ridden, but after that it usually stops.
That is something you have to know if you were to persue mushrooms again.
You have to get through the first hour or so.

With smaller doses, you most likely only gotten the uncomfortable comeup and not much more.
 
My advice is to look perceive the anxiety, what does it feel like, what part of the mind is it in and what parts of the mind are being affected as a result.

Mindfulness... Just be present with it, even the suffering. Meditate for a while, whilst still on whatever medications (benzodiazepines for most make meditation more difficult but its the reverse for me). I would recommend simple breath awareness, not concentration. Just know you are breathing in, and then know that you are breathing out.. Dont block out thought just let them arise because thats when the mind reveals subconscious tensions and problems. Mindfulness. Also just straight up mindfulness as in being present in the moment.

After youve done that for a good 2 weeks (find your own comfortable length of meditation time but mindfulness can be practiced at basically anytime, masters are always in mindful awareness) you should find it easier to just be with the breath, and present, and the suffering/anxiety will subside (how much will depend on how much effort and belief you can do it and this will work for you), and from there you should be able to slowly wean off meds... Then take a microdose... severe anxiety and psychedelics isnt a good idea without proper set setting and most of all.. preparation.


Learn about diaphragmatic breathing and the autonomic nervous system (the parasympathetic is the one you want to engage).


Hope this helps mate, its helped me.
 
As usual, very good advices here.
Mindfulness is, indeed, a good way to start.
Trying to stop benzodiazepines in the same time would be a great idea to, since this medication tend to slow down the recovery in anxiety disorders. Even, in some cases, benzodiazepines can induce and then maintain social anxiety disorder (sadly I've seen this many times). You'll need to go slow and to probably change molecule, one with a longer half-life would be better to gradually stop(far easier this way, as you won't have, each day, withdrawal symptoms, as it would be the case with a short or intermediate duration benzodiazepine).
Concerning the psychedelic part, it could be a good way to go, but would it be possible to first prepare yourself with an experimented friend? The better would be if this friend had some knowledge concerning social anxiety. I mean, psychedelic therapy isn't simply: "take this pill/mushroom/cactus or whatever" and you'll be better. It is a more integrative approach, combining guidance, psychotherapy and, in a good setting, the intake of a substance.
I would also agree with fellow Nexians who think mushrooms could be challenging to start. San pedro (simply brewed) would be, to me, a really good choice, even better than MDMA. Both have this loving and healing vibe but San Pedro is a real medecine, to me, while MDMA is a bit exhausting IMHO.
Whatever choice you'll make, take care of yourself!

Peace
 
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