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shamanism thread..

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jamie

jamie

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I wanted to start a thread on shamanism in general..shamanic creation stories, mythologys, practices..the futre of shamanism and it's place in western society today..

heres a video I found to start off with that speaks about our world as the world of "dreams with dreams" from the perspective of a siberian shaman.
..I like this one becasue the mythology is very beautiful, speaks a bit to the idea of dualism and non dualism and makes sense intuitivly..the splitting of the one self of cosmic self to create diversity, or fracticality..maybe metaphorical maybe not.

How do you guys see shamanism? religion..spiritual practice..just a bunch of loonies dancing around speaking jibberish?
 
personally I think that shamanism is important inour society today..and it's something that in it's absense what is left in dissconnection and utimatily, suffering.

Weather or not it has any basis in physical reality doesn't really matter to me. I dont think that science and shamanism necessarily need to come together the way lots of people always say that the 2 are..unless science broadens it's horizons a bit..this is not an attack on science it has it's place so pleace leave that argument out of it unless it's going to be relevant.

I think that shamanism is essential to the future of psychotherapy..

Shamanism is bread out of the metaphorical I think. I see this world as a great metaphor..a great paradox..everything is like everything, in a way. Reality and history are great stories currently in the making..

Shamanism is a way of looking at and interacting with the world...and I think a part of it requires a certain level of "crazy"..it's just inherant in the practice..especially today since alot of sickness, like depression is bread out of the struggle to be "normal"..

I am not taking about placebo either..I am talking about soul-retrival..
I think that this is a topic greatly misunderstood by the magority of people..what sould retrival actaully is to the shamans who practice it.

The world is sick..western society is sick. We lost a huge part of oursleves somewhere along the way and forgot to go back and pick up the pieces.. Sickness of course exists everywhere and always has..but ours is different. We focus on everything linear..everyting being rationalized and compartmentalized..everything categorized and collected neatly into it's place...nothing wrong with that (it helps us learn on one level)..but it also dis-connects us and creates a certain level of anxiousness..we are no longer whole.

We have become so ill psychologically and cut off from eachother through the lack of empathy, empathy that eminates from less logical, or rational right-brain thinking..thoughts without boarders I call it.

Shamaism is like a left brain activity that seeks runification through right brain practices..I say this becasue the main goal of the shaman is to heal..diagnose of gain insight..wich I think is a rational thing to do..yet it seeks this outcome by a means of completely surcomming to right brain de-rationilization..essentailly fighting fire with water.

We are sick with left brain rationilazation addiction and right brain oppression. we dont see the inherant value in things like myth, dreams, fantacy ect anymore..and in the process we are dis-jointed from a very important and necessary aspect of the self..we lost interest in diversity and are have become blind to the sacred beauty that is within everything..lost sight of the real miracle this has already taken place. We just dont do that sacred dance anymore.

That part of the self wants out, want to be expressed...

What we have created is a meaphorical pressure cooker.

In an ever increasing environment of oppression, fear, hate and conformity the tension grows within us between the right brained oppressed self and the left brained, overindulged rationalizing self..

We focus more on things like going to work doing things we dont like so that we can pay bills that we dont agree with than we do actaully focussing on things that come from the soul, or right brain, like art, music,strengthening intra personal relationships, spirituality etc..tings that really do make us feel better.

This is what shamanism is all about. Reconnecting with that primal thing inside of us all that actually is us. It's beyond rationalization and requires no "god"..sciense, which is a practice of rationizing(not bad) categorizes shamanic states of ecstacy as "crazy"... no matter how good they feel.

But from a rational point of view isn't it good to feel good? Isnt it good to feel re-connected? I believe that alot of sickness is caused simply by stress and tension, from personal experience. Shamans in all times and places have known this..becasue they felt it. Shamanism is a practice 100% based on personal experience and feelings, felt first hand. It's a way of bringing that euphoria, that ecstacy that was there in the begining back, a way of calling back what is lost..
 
So true. Thanks for posting. Could not agree more with what you say.

I also think it is a very very important thing, that shamanism and healing traditions are being brought back into the lives of people in the so-called western world. I believe it is vital for us to re-connect with the source, with nature, with mother earth, and with the universal conciousness that we are all part of.

Another world is possible!! We just need to be patient and work to make it happen. Connect with like-minded people, and learn how we can integrate ancient shamanic traditions into our hectic modern lifestyles. And as you point out - at its core it is about direct experience. People have been jaded by organised religion where they are told what to believe. Direct experience of the divine is the only way to experience the truth IMO.

As a healer I met recently told me.. "The earth is awakening..."

The way I see it, in our current society, with all its stress and mania, we actually have unprecedented access to spiritual / shamanic knowledge and teachings. With all its sickness, western civilisation has opened up the possibility that we can travel and connect with healers and shamans anywhere in the world, that can help us to heal that sickness.
 
balaganist said:
So true. Another world is possible!! We just need to be patient and work to make it happen. Connect with like-minded people, and learn how we can integrate ancient shamanic traditions into our hectic modern lifestyles. And as you point out - at its core it is about direct experience. People have been jaded by organised religion where they are told what to believe. Direct experience of the divine is the only way to experience the truth IMO.
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A new world indeed! Imagine if we all could wake up every day smiling with ecstacy at the sun(or rain, snow etc)..dancing with the earth, in ecstacy with her rythms..filled with the joyous movement of the soul.

That is balance and something i think shamanizing can bring us.

Where any work we do is fro something meaningful to us then and there..not for some man/woman who only cares about himslef and hurting the planet in the meantime. A world where technologies are actaully used for bettering the conditions of humankind isntead of capitalizing on the lives of others..

I dont think science/technology can really take us anywhere else while still retaining our integrity until we do make that collapse as a whole into right brained awareness..whats the point of new technologies if we can't even be happy? Happiness is more important than any ammunt of science or technology. I dont want to be a dman robot with no feelings..thats where we seem to be headed. We are so god at suppressing the part of us that can make us whole again.

We have no inspiration to offer..nothing "magical" to look foreward to or believe in..we see no significance and so we feel insignificant.

I like the term "thinking outside of the box"..becasue it really says it all. I hear this slogan all the time..yet not too many people really put it into action to the degree I am talkling about..sure people try to "think outside of the box" when comming up with some new business idea or whatever..but in the end its the $$ that drives it.

We need to really step outside of that liner, rationizing box we have packaged ourselves so neatly into and just go dman crazy! It feels so good! you cannot compartmentalize ecstasy..and you certainly cannot collect it...package it and save it for later..It comes in the moment and letting go is how we get there.
 
A few days ago I took some bufotene and caapi extract..and it made me feel a bit nuts! I ended up on the floor doing summersaults and laughing like a madman, standing on my head and rolling on the floor etc..I realized that I had been so serious the days before that trying to do this or do that, worrying about stupid things, and the anxiousness had been building up..negativly effecting me.

The wacko way I was acting in my trip was just my left brain losing its hold and all the tension built up in my right brain was exploading out..it was so fun! so ecstatic..and it was sooo healing! Like resonnecting with a part of my sould I had lost..that is sould retrival.

Thats what shamanism is all about. It should neve be all serious and religous, dogmatic etc...I see this alot though..people trying to make it out as some hocky pocky serious religous thing..with rules and such.
 
found this today..filmed really beautifully and put together with some nice flute music as well..really nice..hope you enjoy it!
 
I think that shamanism is essential to the future of psychotherapy..
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-fractal enchantment


I couldn't agree more, the scientific act of compartamentalizing everything has led to some serious disfunction in the medical treatment provided by doctors in our culture.

One must go to a therapist or psychologist who is trained in some behavorial analysis or stress releif therapy but then you must go to a psychiatrist to recieve medications, many of which have horrendous side effects. Which in turn causes one to use other medication etc.

Shamanism I see as our ancestral heritage in this psychosocial aspect of human wellness, it accomplishes both goals of psychiatry and psychology without the problem of becoming stuck in either modality. Also indeed there does appear to be a bit of cosmic insanity in almost all good shaman, which is something that all western doctors would never think of doing, acting "abnormal".

I have read a number of books on shamanism and recently participated in a yearlong course in core shamanism which was interesting however not quite my cup of tea, I hate too much structure and limitation which I thought the class contained more of than I expected.

Also it appears a great majority of the anxiety created by our society is due to our fear of the spiritual realities and our linear thought process. Many of our western contemporaries are horrified of death and what this entails, one large role in almost all shamanic societies is that of the "psychopomp", or conductor of souls. This basically means the shaman is the gatekeeper and guide for beings in this plane and when one is passing between planes the shaman would assist in this transition as well as guiding the soul during it's tribulations and lessons in life.

This is what I see as being primarily missing from our society, in oncology there is the concept of palliative care which is essentially the function of preparing the individual and their family for the transistion of death as well as assisting this transition. However it is my opinion that we all need this kind of understanding and it may ease many peoples general anxiety in living their lives.

Wonderful thread fractal, I have alot more to say about this topic and I just found the thread but that point jumped out because I have been thinking about this alot lately. I had been going to mention shamanism, but the scientific focus the nexus typically brings made me feel it was not necassarily appropriate, any rate im glad for this thread.

Peace and Love
 
fractal enchantment said:
I also really like what this guy has to say here..
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Wow!!! Thanks for posting, fractal enchantment! :d It appears so that I found myself in the middle of a nice synchronicity right now & here :d
It's two hours or so since I came back from a Spice journey. I entered the Hyperspace this time to get advise on my current life situation and my self-perception as there are too much things in my lfe now to get boosted. With shaking hands I reached my bong, I was premonitioning a tough journey to the middle of personal conflicts and depressed intentions, and some terrible cleaning of my psycho-physics as well... :lol: Instead of it all I was almost softly placed into an odd "hyperdimensional bio-mechanical machine" where my body was transformed (and it was WEIRD like it usually goes), I came back with one straight and clear answer to all my questions - the answer is a certain state of mind integrated for me by that "machine", which is 100% relevant to what I intend to do, this state of mind is based on 3 main things. What are they? Just re-view the video posted by fractal enchantment! :d

It was sooooo cool (and unexpected!) to hear from this guy on the video these 3 things absolutely identical to those brought from Hyperspace! :d

P.S.:
...and this shows my personal attitude towards shamanism I guess ;)

PEACE
 
Wow Sattwa thats an incredible synchronicity, indeed these are pretty much the guidelines for all shamanic practitioners,and real shamans however following them is easier said than done. I have only just begun my journey and personally think my bowl gets flipped over sometimes by some revelations and then I stupidly add more rocks in by stepping into that negative polarity. It is very hard to love all that we see today with humility and I consistently find myself ignoring many of the good things that have occurred and are occuring in the world and get angry and frustrated. Which certainly is not the positive polarity, but one must keep trying I suppose, it is funny how these kind of synchronicities occur though, I am glad there are other members interested in shamanism on here.

Something that occurred to me while reading your post though was how the nexus is almost a technologic extension of something that our shamanic ancestors have been doing for thousands of years. Which is sharing their knowledge of well... hyperspace since that is the nexus terminology. Actually there is one book that I really enjoyed which gave evidence of this sharing in Holger Kalweit's "Shamans, healers and medicine men" its been a while since I read the book, it is very interesting though, its a compilation of different shamanic myths from around the world. I personally really love the stories derived from the buryat shamanic tradition but there are many many interesting stories. Perhaps some relate to journey's others on the nexus have had, it would certainly be interesting to do a comparison.
 
I find shamanism to be a fascinating subject. Its a way many cultures searched for answers to there proublems before science or organized religion. And it has provided a undeniable benefit to many cultures and humanity as a whole. Early shamans could be considered the grand fathers of pharmacology and psychology.

Sure I am a science hard head but I am not afraid to proclaim I have many, many books on shamanism and the world religions in my library. If you are a true student of the Human Mind, psychedelics, religion or philosophy you will be missing a big slice of the cosmic pie if you dismiss or ignore this fascinating subject.

It will also help you in your psychedelic travels. I read the reports what some consider bad trip reports here and else where. To quote a few off the top "I was dismembered and torn to bits, I was being shredded, the entities were probing me, I was scanned and they took things out of me and put others in, I was disemboweled by the being who replaced my guts with a shiny crystal....ect"

All of these would be considered a very productive journey by most Shaman. They would begin to contemplate the meanings of there horrific thoughts as something natural a lesson to be learned.

So yes if you are a serious student Shamanism is a important aspect of Humanity and its culture that should not be overlooked. Again just my views on the matter.:)

Hell you could go as far to say Shamans were the first primitive scientist. They were the first to attempt to solve the issues and attempt healing for there respective cultures.

Back in the day you did not go to the Dr for a cure you asked the Shaman.
You want to know the meaning of something you do not understand ask the Shaman.
The shaman is happy to take the responsibility of solving his cultures proublems because he has been called to do so. He will stay up all nite consuming foul tasting sacraments, sometimes even poisoning him/her self just to find answer to his cultural questions.

I got much respect for a true Shaman of his culture. I have no respect for Pat Robertson(christan) Osama Benladen(muslum), Joseph Smith (morman) ect.........

Sorry about all my religion/paranormal bashing posts I mean no offense to others. It is simply that a sugar coated debate is not a real debate if you tailor you thoughts to spare a ego it denies others from getting the real perspective and censors the truth.

I have GREAT respect for all living things and the last time I checked we are all alive here at the NEXUS.




PEACE
MV
 
a cool wind blows in from the north
I close my eyes
and there it is

illuminated and flowing from the source
I, travel

a hum rises cobratic vibrations emanate from fan hands dissolve

a signal a prayer and a deep breath for all who sit in circle,
igniting, combining,
waving neurochemical flags into the flow
of lightning heart beats grinning crystalline
and bioluminescent light streams down the faces
in perfect pulsations

a dissonance in your existence can be heard by the hand
which can be sung into place, with crickets.
eyes dripping seas of love swept up in the smoke
 
I love your poetic posts ۩ !

Regarding Shamans being like proto-scientists - I very much agree - however they are quite different to today's scientists... in that they learn to navigate realms that today's scientists may dismiss as not real - whereas to the Shaman these realms are ultra-real.

The way myths and mystical stories are interwoven with daily reality, spirits being a very real phenomenen, and direct encounters with higher beings a fairly 'normal' thing for those initiated... is completely alien to the modern scientific mind, which requires 'proof' in order to consider something 'real'.

Its a shame, because there is so much beauty and power in these realms... its like the land of fairytales... except.. its not as fictional as some might think.... IMO>>
 
"The way myths and mystical stories are interwoven with daily reality"..
"its like the land of fairytales... except.. its not as fictional as some might think.... "

Oh yes! this is one of the things I think is so beautiful about it!
 
So what do you guys think "qualifies" one as a shaman?..I use the word qualify for the lack of a better term at the moment..

I spoke to someone recently, a friend of a friend...they are drinking aya very soon with someone who runs ceremonies..I heard all this stuff about this guy and how he was a "real shaman" becasue he had drank in the amazon and studied there, and was celibit for 3 years..this person is sort of new to this stuff I think so I can understand how it sounds all romantic and stuff..

BUT...I think that alot of us here are VERY qualified in that sense..maybe even moreso than people who did it all in the amazon..or other places with other plants..taking these things in our normal everyday environments..the cities where we live etc is what it is really about..becasue it is our home..where we are from..seems more real and sincere that way..shamanizing our homelands8)

I have had people tell me on a few occasions that I am opening myslef up to negative energies and whatnot becasue I dont do these things with a "real shaman"..I try to explain to them that I have done this hundreds of times alone..I have been to that side and come back many many times, and I know what to do when it gets weird..I dont know what a guide could really do for me...not saying I am some master or I can take anything, there are areas(lots) I still need to work on with entheogens that I fear..but it something that I feel I need to do alone.

It's the experiences within themsleves that really make it what it is..or us who we are. I dont see how spending all your time in the amazon with people who are not from your culture practicing things that might not translate to an outsider is as relevant as creating something new in the place you are from..

The word "shaman" seems to come with alot of dogmatic, cultural baggage these days..noone can teach you these things..or anything for that matter..it's through the direct experience that you see it for yourself.
 
yes, its a good question.

I was recently at a retreat near the amazon doing ceremonies with an indigenous shaman. One interesting thing, is that they see westerners like us, who want to go there and take ayahuasca and learn, as kind of shamans. Because the locals there, most of them dont want to drink aya. They will just go to the shaman to get a cleansing, to receive some healing.

And yes, I think this place here, the amazing portal that is the Nexus, is like a dynamic information centre for us "neo-shamans". All the crazy extraction techniques we do, the different plants people are trying, the combinations people are finding (69ron !!!). To me its all part of a modern form of shamanism. Its like, extracting and smoking Spice is like a quick way to go very far into hyperspace. It fits city life. You can do it after a day at work and go to work the next morning, no problem. If you want to drink ayahuasca, you gotta set aside at least a couple of days, do the diet etc, if you want to get the best out of the experience...

(of course comparing smoked spice and aya is a bit like apples and pears... both involve dmt but IMO ayahuasca can teach us more about ourselves and our connection to earth, whereas pure dmt is more like a lesson in existence. )

t's the experiences within themsleves that really make it what it is..or us who we are. I dont see how spending all your time in the amazon with people who are not from your culture practicing things that might not translate to an outsider is as relevant as creating something new in the place you are from..

The word "shaman" seems to come with alot of dogmatic, cultural baggage these days..noone can teach you these things..or anything for that matter..it's through the direct experience that you see it for yourself.
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I agree - I think we can learn A LOT from the traditional ways, but we must integrate them into what we have here. Its not about going out to the amazon, doing ceremonies, copying what they do to the T and bringing it back shrink-wrapped ... its about learning, understanding and respecting and adapting to our culture.

I feel, we are like children, who have realised that most of our people are quite lost in this ridiculous game... and found that there are wise people in far away lands who know how to navigate the outer realms.. so we go to them and learn, we learn from each other, we try different things, but I see us moving forward, integrating new and old knowledge, with the ultimate goal of healing ourselves and the planet.
 
yes good points balaganist. It's interesting that the shamans in the amazon view western seekers as shamans as well.

I plan on getting to the amazon eventually, just out of interest as to how they conduct ceremonies etc.. I already have my own ways that work for me..but I am sure there are things I can learn from them that I can apply to my life here..I think it would be cool to drink ayahuasca in a traditional ceremony with shamans and then have them sit and smoke DMT with us..would be neat! We could exchange ideas and whatnot.
 
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