Short ayahuasca trip, why?

[acapuchinu]

I have had 4 syrian rue mimohuasca trips so far and none have exceeded 3.5 hours. On my 3rd trip I was seeing beings with my eyes open so it isn't the fact that I didn't take enough.

I wait 20-30 minutes after rue ingestion to drink the mimosa tea.
Is that enough time to potentiate or do I need to wait longer?

What are some reasons that the trip may be so short? It also isn't my body that causes this because I tripped with my friends as well with the same effect.

 

[pitubo]

How much mimosa, how much rue? What method of ingestion?

For me, it works best when I take the spice and the maoi together, but then I only do pharmahuasca, so I am note sure how it works out with a tea, or even plain plant stuff. When you ingest a lot of undigested plant material, the extraction continues in your body, so it would last a little longer.

Usually the effects last for me as long as the harmala works, around 4 hours. If I want it to last longer, I ingest more at least an hour before it would otherwise have worn off.

 

[acapuchinu]

I seem to have came across some pretty potent mimosa. The highest dosage with this particular batch is 5g and I was seeing beings clearly with open eyes.

My last trip was 4g rue and 3.5g mimosa. I do the standard 3x 30 simmer method (both rue and mimosa) and it seems to do the job well. After which I do an egg white clarification with the mimosa.

You are saying I should dose more rue in the middle of the trip?

 

[3rdI]

try it without the egg white wash

 

[universecannon]

That's not really uncommon to be honest. And it sounds intense as it is.

IME if you take a psychedelic dose of rue it will last longer though.

You could also just smoke changa on the comedown...Or drink another dose (but be careful there because it can stack up)

 

[ratpoison]

try it without the egg white wash

Agree, I also boil the Mimosa together with the Rue instead of meddling with the timing, comes up more synchronously in my experiences. I prepare Mimosa a day or two on forehand, let it stay in the fridge to drop sediment and then add it in the first Rue boil, then do two more washes with water. It seems the plant fats (that melt together when you boil the teas together) halt the absorption of the DMT in the stomach approximately exactly long enough for the harmalas to take effect - I never had a problem with this way of dosing and it never failed to hit anyone else either, even in low doses of harmalas.

With my seeds, 5g of syrian rue and above will bring a longer lasting, 4-7 hour experience, a smaller hit like 3g I'm just before the two hour mark before it slopes down over the course of another two hours. My personal pref. for dosing is 5g rue to 4g Mimosa for a proper trip with this combination (seems you got about the same strength Mimosa as me for what you describe as effects~dose), and around 3-4g rue with 2.5-3.5g mimosa for a smaller, chilled out experience.

Just add some honey plus 70% apple and 30% orange juice if you want to mask the flavours, bitterness and feeling of tannins in your mouth...

 

[obliguhl]

For me, the peak is more like 1.5 hours. I think it is a myth that ayahuasca necessarly lasts 6 hours +. Perhaps it isn't factored in, that in some settings, several cups of ayahuasca are spread throughout the night...or that a higher harmala dose is taken. It seems that with a low amount of harmalas, it drops rather quickly below the dmt inhibition threshhold and then, only the harmalas can be felt.

 

[pitubo]

You are saying I should dose more rue in the middle of the trip?

I would do more rue + mimosa, but not a full dose. It will stack up.

IIRC the Santo Daime church drinks another cup of sacrament every two hours approximately to keep their "work" going, sometimes for 12 or more hours.

Just add some honey plus 70% apple and 30% orange juice if you want to mask the flavours, bitterness and feeling of tannins in your mouth...

Try blackcurrant syrup.

 

[Du57mi73]

I have done pharmahuasca 2 times. Both times my experiences didnt last more than an hour and a half even with massive quantities of both dmt and harmaline being taken. So I think length partially has to do with how fast your metabolism is(exceedingly high in my case). But like stated earlier, 3.5h is a pretty normal off of a single dose.

 

[acapuchinu]

Nice information here. Thanks.

I have some more questions now. If redosing throughout the trip does that mean there will be nausea all over again?
I am ok with vomiting/purging once during the trip but puking throughout the trip sounds not so appealing.

Why do you recommend no egg wash?

 

[pitubo]

Extract and purify your goodies and you get the benefit of accurate dosing and no nausea.

I put 125 mg harmala HCl and 25 mg DMT fumarate in capsules. 2 caps gets me going, more intensifies or extends.

 

[universecannon]

Extract and purify your goodies and you get the benefit of accurate dosing and no nausea.

It can help the nausea to take extracted harmalas as opposed a syrian rue brew, but nausea is often just a part of the experience that you learn to work with and get used to...It is especially present as the harmala-dosage increases. Pure harmalas can give you nausea on their own, and adding in tryptamines to that equation can really ramp it up to.

 

[pitubo]

It can help the nausea to take extracted harmalas as opposed a syrian rue brew, but nausea is often just a part of the experience that you learn to work with and get used to...It is especially present as the harmala-dosage increases. Pure harmalas can give you nausea on their own, and adding in tryptamines to that equation can really ramp it up to.

To me the effects of purified harmalas are noticable mostly in the small gut, as a sense of bloatedness or strangeness. I experience it more as a minor inconvenience than as a sickness. It can't compare to the sort of nausea that is caused by tannins etc. in the stomach and that can forcibly cause vomiting.

 

[universecannon]

Well I'm not saying that enough harmalas to just activate DMT will cause intense effects in everyone, because those amounts are relatively low doses for most people without the intense effects of harmalas, mostly being DMT-dominant trips after all. You can get plenty of it on pure harmalas at the right dosage, trust me... Especially at doses that put you into deep trance visions and OBEs (even without dmt), pure harmalas will eventually cause intense dizziness/purging/purging as you keep upping the dose (especially in combo with dmt) - although everyone is slightly different when it comes to metabolizing things, of course. At intense doses, even just moving your body at all or looking around a lit room can spark intense dizziness and purging.

I don't want to give the impression that it's toxic at these dosages though, since it's just a part of the experience. A lot of psychedelics can get uncomfortable at dosages that are still far below toxic levels.

 

[psyconaught89]

This might be off topic a bit but just wanted to chime in:grin:

Ive had an experience where 2g of syrian rue made 3.5g of P.cubensis last for about 10-11 hours.very amazing spiritual journey thanks to the rue by the way.
I havnt yet tried oral dmt but I agree a lot of it has to do with your metabolism.

 

[acapuchinu]

Rue definitely increases the length and stegnth of shrooms. I have done it myself once.

But if I redose on rue and mimosa during the trip will it cause nausea all over again? Is there any way to stop that? Because I am OK with purging once during the trip but I don't wanna keep purging several times throughout the trip.

 

[ratpoison]

For me, the peak is more like 1.5 hours. I think it is a myth that ayahuasca necessarly lasts 6 hours +. Perhaps it isn't factored in, that in some settings, several cups of ayahuasca are spread throughout the night...or that a higher harmala dose is taken. It seems that with a low amount of harmalas, it drops rather quickly below the dmt inhibition threshhold and then, only the harmalas can be felt.

I used to think this as well until I drank >130g caapi and then it mostly lasts 8-10h, with a complete afterglow for 1-2 days, but rue seems to be shorter in duration even in higher doses, at least for me. It's all about dosing and administration, thus why I prefer boiling them together to make sure everything is synchronously coming on, also the DMT seems to me to take stronger 'hold' in the initial peak of the harmalas (more/longer visions/dreamphase) than when dosed 15-25 mins after. Though Ayahuasca can without any problems last only two to three hours in a dose below ~80g (of my vine strength), this is also in my experience depending on which kind of experience one has, which means I think the duration seems somewhat dynamic and not just up to blood levels. Even in these strong experiences, the initial dream phase of Ayahuasca can be very fleeting and short, though I am usually still tripping strongly for the next 6-8h. Rue/mimosa seems to peak and drop faster in a sense, sometimes in 3-4 waves with a sharper curve, but when going over 5g of seeds, I get a more smooth curve similar to a mushroom trip's curve. Though be careful as the strength of rue increases somewhat exponentially after this point.

Refilling is nice for long experiences, this is my alternative with rue brews if I want more control of the curve. More material to use for a similar strength experience but more control. 1:1 ratio between rue and mimosa, or acacia(+15%/g) is my favourite ratio for this, and I'd recommend only adjusting with 1-2g each cup or it can increase really fast in intensity. I usually drink 3-3.5 in the first shot and then creep upwards with 1.5g each hit. When redosing with rue I never experience too much of an extension of the effects as the rue goes up, even if I consume up to 10-15g in an evening, only when I drink a full dose of rue in one shot, I get the long duration. Strange stuff. Also I get more DMT-focused effects doing this than when doing a full rue dose in one go, which feels a bit more lively and dominates my perception more. Strange stuff that. With Ayahuasca I don't like to redose unless I don't hit the spot with the first cup, and I usually use use loads of vine to make sure I get there.

 

[psyconaught89]

Rue definitely increases the length and stegnth of shrooms. I have done it myself once.

But if I redose on rue and mimosa during the trip will it cause nausea all over again? Is there any way to stop that? Because I am OK with purging once during the trip but I don't wanna keep purging several times throughout the trip.

Just curious did the rue + shroom combo changee the whole expiereence for you also?
For example I had many many shroom trips before this but with the rue it didnt feel like a psilocybin trip at all.
As for the nausea im not sure I havnt tried aya yet but I would imagine it comin back if you redose.ever tried ginger tea? Has helped me before

 

[acapuchinu]

I was thinking of trying ginger tea last time but didn't in the end. I haven't had too many shrooms trips but I didn't see a noticeable difference the one time I tried with rue besides duration.

 

[psyconaught89]

Interesting...thanks.
YEa ginger tea helped me out on a few occasions but the stuff tastes awful to me.
Be safe and good luck with your journey8)