Should I try?

[anonymouse3223]

Hello all.

I am posting on this forum to ask for advice on whether I should try DMT or other psychedelics. I am 19 years old and am studying physics at a university (4th year). I have never had any experience with psychedelics, though I have tried (and enjoyed) marijuana. I am also an atheist, though I don't know if that's relevant here.

My reason for being curious about using psychedelics is that I have noticed that my ego is too large and inhibits my ability to work/ enjoy life. When I say ego, I don't just mean self aggrandizement, but rather a constant obsession with being successful or admirable that leads me to sit around and fantasize rather than do anything productive. As it stands, I show up to my classes at the beginning of each quarter with extreme confidence and resolution, and end up studying very little (anywhere from 0-4 hours/week) until I panic when exam times come around and cram the day before the test. So far, it's been enough that I can barely skim by, but it's gradually getting worse. This doesn't just apply to my scholarly enterprises, but my diet, exercise, and social life as well. I have trouble facing reality and run away from it all, going into complete isolation, lazing around, and eating like crap for weeks or months on end. I've had this problem for several years and now it's getting dangerously close to the point where it might mess up my chances of finishing my education and finding a career.

From around ages 13-17, I experienced pretty deep depressions, almost always coupled with or caused by existential crises. I still get depressed now and again, but it's never quite as deep because I've thoroughly ruled out the option of suicide (I don't want to hurt my friends and family).

I have a firm grasp of everything that I ought to do in life (be around family and friends, eat healthy, exercise, study, etc.) but I find extreme difficulty finding the reason or motivation to do them. I have more than enough knowledge, but I'm severely lacking in wisdom. There have been several times in my life when I managed to do what I ought, but, inevitably, my ego returns and I feel wholly unsatisfied, retreating back to the comfort of my delusions.

I've made several attempts to combat this problem: going to therapists and talking to friends/family. More often than not, I usually spend hours on end philosophizing and trying to find the right combination of words that leads to my enlightenment (I've easily spent thousands of hours doing this). I've also tried meditating and reading books on Buddhism (been interested since age of 13, and I think that the Buddhist teachings have some of the most beautiful philosophies and insights). After several years of attempting, though, I've never been able to get past 20 minutes of meditation, whereupon I land upon some insight or beautiful combination of words, get excited, and refuel my ego.

Currently, I plan to visit a rigorous 10-day vipassana retreat sometime in the summer. Hopefully the social obligation of being in a group motivates me to sit for more than half an hour. From my readings and personal experience, I'm fairly confident that a long time meditating will help me solve my problem, but on my own, I can't find the motivation to carry through with it. Though I'm hopeful about the opportunity to go on a retreat, summer is a while from now, and I still have 2 more quarters of school to get through. This leads me to my main question:

Should I try DMT or other psychedelics to change my perspective and help eliminate my ego? I'm considering trying it during the winter break, when I have no school obligations. I already spend practically no time being productive, so there's not too much that I can lose in that department.

I'm mainly interested in using DMT versus the others because I've heard that it's extremely strong and transforms peoples' perspectives on life in a way that the other psychedelics don't. I'm hesitant to try weaker psychedelics because I'm afraid of just having a pleasant experience or finding yet another false solution that refuels my ego. At the same time, I have no idea what to expect from a DMT trip and I don't want to go completely crazy, ruin my life, or hurt myself/others. I just want to be productive and enjoy life.

So that's my situation. Sorry for giving such a long post, but I figured that I should give a complete psychological profile. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

 

[Sakkadelic]

I'm actually having a problem very similar to yours, i was an atheist, i study physics and telecom engineering(a decision i took 2 years ago when i was strong but i'm too weak now to continue both successfully), i'm facing the same thing with studying, i like Buddhism, i used to spend hours fantasising everyday... but recently i realised that i am the opposite of everything i thought about myself, i worry less about tomorrow and i gave up on my dreams and accepted what will come, i discovered that i'm a lover and my life is getting better... but i can't find the way to adapt my mind and change my old way of thinking, i have days when i doubt everything in my life and it gets me really down.
Except cannabis (which makes me very doubtful) everything i take makes me very positive, motivated and creative, this state can last up to 1 month for me but then i get a nasty fall, that's why I want a solution for my problem without using anything.
DMT motivates me the most, the first hour after taking it is when i find the solution to all my problems and see that i'm on the right path but my mind makes me forget it all, i even forget how good it was and don't feel like taking it again until i take it and remember...
i don't know if this was helpful to you, i'm interested to see the replies on this post.
thank you for posting

 

[Samvega]

Hi Anonymouse,

Please see my responses below under your quotes. I apologise if some of my answers seem a little direct, I simply believe we'll get somewhere quicker without any bush beating

My reason for being curious about using psychedelics is that I have noticed that my ego is too large and inhibits my ability to work/ enjoy life. When I say ego, I don't just mean self aggrandizement, but rather a constant obsession with being successful or admirable that leads me to sit around and fantasize rather than do anything productive. As it stands, I show up to my classes at the beginning of each quarter with extreme confidence and resolution, and end up studying very little (anywhere from 0-4 hours/week) until I panic when exam times come around and cram the day before the test. So far, it's been enough that I can barely skim by, but it's gradually getting worse. This doesn't just apply to my scholarly enterprises, but my diet, exercise, and social life as well. I have trouble facing reality and run away from it all, going into complete isolation, lazing around, and eating like crap for weeks or months on end. I've had this problem for several years and now it's getting dangerously close to the point where it might mess up my chances of finishing my education and finding a career.

Having read this first section, it sounds a lot like the fear of failure, especially as you yourself have said that you have a "constant obsession with being successful or admirable". Maybe you're setting the bar too high and therefore finding hard to act on what seems like a truly mammoth task? Believe me though, I myself along with many other of my friends suffered the same thing when we were at university, it actually seemed to be quite a common problem.
For me, I adopted the principles of Neurolinguistic Programming (NLP), which is excellent at giving you the tools to irradiate exactly what you're talking about. It has sections on taking control of inner voice, motivation, goal setting, communication skills (including verbal, written and body), anchoring states of mind and accessing them through visualisation etc. This can all seem a bit farfetched and "unreal" at first but give it a go, follow it word for word and you may find some relief
I recommend purchasing a book on it, I have to say some books are better than others, maybe look out for the writing style. Some are quite arrogant, I recommend checking one out that has a fairly neutral vibe. Maybe try this. I had a skim of it a long time ago - http://www.amazon.com/NLP-Workbook-Practical-Achieving-Results/dp/1573246158
I'd tell you more but I lost my kindle with all my books on it.

From around ages 13-17, I experienced pretty deep depressions, almost always coupled with or caused by existential crises. I still get depressed now and again, but it's never quite as deep because I've thoroughly ruled out the option of suicide (I don't want to hurt my friends and family).

Can you elaborate on these existential crises? What are their nature? What are the effects/thoughts?

I have a firm grasp of everything that I ought to do in life (be around family and friends, eat healthy, exercise, study, etc.) but I find extreme difficulty finding the reason or motivation to do them. I have more than enough knowledge, but I'm severely lacking in wisdom. There have been several times in my life when I managed to do what I ought, but, inevitably, my ego returns and I feel wholly unsatisfied, retreating back to the comfort of my delusions.

It's much better to do what you WANT to do rather than what you OUGHT to do. Maybe a change in perspective is needed here, although I wholeheartedly accept that those things you listed require continuous effort.

I've made several attempts to combat this problem: going to therapists and talking to friends/family. More often than not, I usually spend hours on end philosophizing and trying to find the right combination of words that leads to my enlightenment (I've easily spent thousands of hours doing this). I've also tried meditating and reading books on Buddhism (been interested since age of 13, and I think that the Buddhist teachings have some of the most beautiful philosophies and insights). After several years of attempting, though, I've never been able to get past 20 minutes of meditation, whereupon I land upon some insight or beautiful combination of words, get excited, and refuel my ego.

My friend, no combination of words will lead one to enlightenment, although I'd say youre onto a winner with the Buddhism. The Buddhist teachings bring great peace and tranquility into ones life, however unless you seek ordination as a monk, you will need to integrate these teachings into your every day life. I have to say, that's the hard bit! I'm working on this myself. I recommend the following reading although I understand it may be a little dense if you prefer commentaries rather than "raw" suttas. This link contains a few passages on householder advice - The Buddha's general advice to lay followers
Anupubbikathā - Wikipedia - This link is worth checking out too, it has a list (in order) of how to integrate the path, (its called "gradual discourse") start with generosity, being generous helps clear the mind and bring you peace.
Another thing I can strongly relate to is the frustrations and difficulty in meditation. How often do you meditate may I ask? Meditation is largely ineffective (in the long run) unless is it practiced daily with at least some discipline. This most definitely is challenging, however when coupled with the gradual discourse, the mind settles easier. I'm guessing you've read this a million times if you've been engaged with Buddhism from an early age - If your struggling to focus, it's all about lovingly bringing the attention back to the breath. Continually doing this eventually subdues the mind and takes practice. You will get there my friend, keep going! See below for more on meditation.

Currently, I plan to visit a rigorous 10-day vipassana retreat sometime in the summer. Hopefully the social obligation of being in a group motivates me to sit for more than half an hour. From my readings and personal experience, I'm fairly confident that a long time meditating will help me solve my problem, but on my own, I can't find the motivation to carry through with it. Though I'm hopeful about the opportunity to go on a retreat, summer is a while from now, and I still have 2 more quarters of school to get through. This leads me to my main question:

I see you mentioned a vipassana retreat, I'm assuming you chose this type of meditation because it is known as "insight meditation" in which "insight" is your goal. While I think meditation would be great for you, in my opinion you should start with anapanasati meditation which as you probably know is "mindfulness of breath". Please don't underestimate this meditation, it is profoundly peaceful and in itself brings insight, insight into the workings of your mind, its behaviours, its patterns... You may find a 10 day vipassana retreat frustrating without first becoming skilled in anapanasati. If you do wish to go ahead with the vipassana retreat, don't hesitate to utilise any help you can get from the teachers

Should I try DMT or other psychedelics to change my perspective and help eliminate my ego? I'm considering trying it during the winter break, when I have no school obligations. I already spend practically no time being productive, so there's not too much that I can lose in that department.

While I don't think DMT is the immediate antidote to your problem, it can help penetrate wisdom, however there are a few things I would strongly advise you to consider before thinking anymore about going ahead with it.
1). Firstly you should know that DMT is not for everyone, it could be very counterproductive if you come out the other side metaphysically "blown to pieces".
2). Read LOTS and LOTS. Pretty much all of the info you need is contained on this site. I strongly recommend heading over to erowid and read literally every single trip report on there to get an idea of how strong this stuff is. You'll find the reports here - DMT (also N,N-DMT) : Erowid Exp: Main Index
3) You will not be able to FULLY prepare for the experience so if you do, for whatever reason decide to go ahead with it please start LOW. If you go for an ego shattering dose you'll very likely regret it.
4). While DMT can bring about ego death during the experience it will not make you completely egoless permanently, so maybe change your intention from "eliminate my ego"

I'm mainly interested in using DMT versus the others because I've heard that it's extremely strong and transforms peoples' perspectives on life in a way that the other psychedelics don't. I'm hesitant to try weaker psychedelics because I'm afraid of just having a pleasant experience or finding yet another false solution that refuels my ego. At the same time, I have no idea what to expect from a DMT trip and I don't want to go completely crazy, ruin my life, or hurt myself/others. I just want to be productive and enjoy life.

I have to say, I've worked with psilocybin mushrooms for 7 years and I have gained a lot of insight from them. Psiloybin (or more so, psilocin which is what psilocybin is metabolised into) is quite similar to very low dose DMT, it's also a very similar molecule. I'd recommend possibly checking that out. I can vouch for their effectiveness.

So that's my situation. Sorry for giving such a long post, but I figured that I should give a complete psychological profile. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Overall don't expect things to happen overnight, looking for a quick fix will only result in suffering. Check out all the links I provided it should be a good starting point. Just remember, little by little my friend.

May you find what you're looking for. :thumb_up:

 

[Samvega]

but recently i realised that i am the opposite of everything i thought about myself, i worry less about tomorrow and i gave up on my dreams and accepted what will come, i discovered that i'm a lover and my life is getting better... but i can't find the way to adapt my mind and change my old way of thinking, i have days when i doubt everything in my life and it gets me really down.

Hi Sakkadelic, what exactly was your old way of thinking in comparison to your new way of thinking? And why is it specifically that you doubt everything in your life sometimes? Does it have anything to do with your transition from an atheist do you think?

Except cannabis (which makes me very doubtful) everything i take makes me very positive, motivated and creative, this state can last up to 1 month for me but then i get a nasty fall, that's why I want a solution for my problem without using anything.
DMT motivates me the most, the first hour after taking it is when i find the solution to all my problems and see that i'm on the right path but my mind makes me forget it all, i even forget how good it was and don't feel like taking it again until i take it and remember...

Yes, it would be nice if the afterglow/realignments after the psychedelic experience lasted forever but as we all know, sadly they don't Have you tried anapanasati meditation coupled with daily mindfulness throughout your every day activities? I find when states like the one your describing arise it's down to fixating upon the past or the future instead of the present moment.
I'm pretty sure you'll already know this but I think a lot of the time people forget that we will often experience rough times in our life, it's a given and part of the nature of existence. Changing the perspective or "filter" through which we digest these events is the trick. It's still the same event, just received in a totally different way. Once again, mindfulness is your friend here, the ever watchful eye of our arising and ceasing mind-states.

 

[Glossolalia]

Should I try DMT or other psychedelics to change my perspective and help eliminate my ego?

First let me say, I don't like the phrase "eliminate the ego" (nor ego death) because that's not really what happens. We all have egos, we all have personalities, we all have neuroses—we are all just human. No amount of meditation or medication will change that.

You have it right with the change of perspective. When you are really far out there on a psychedelic, you witness that your ego keeps chugging along. Your ego is a good and necessary thing, and you'll (hopefully) find it very beautiful. But when you stand on ground very distant from the ego, and watch it from afar, it becomes crystal clear that your ego is not you. This is a very shocking revelation for people who have been firmly entrenched with ego-identification.

So then, to answer your question:

In my opinion, you've already walked up to the door and are considering knocking. Since you've already come this far, why not?

 

[xa]

I don't know, but why not try before some psilocibin mushroom ? maybe go to a field or forest and learn how to find them and use them, they are more easy from my point of view and gave to me some teaching about me, and outside me in the past, are also confidered good teacher.

Find also a friend or two that like theese experience and that you feel good tripping with them, or go totally alone.

Or find a good group that use ayahuasca ? i think that can be more safe and maybe you have some sort of sciaman or healer that can help you more deep.

DMT can be used after some of this experiences and maybe you don't need it.

I suggest you to investigate on theese other substances before and start low and then increase with them, mushroom can be very powerfull and you harvest them and eat them, so simple start allways low and then if you like it you can use for a more deep journey.
Stay well

 

[Horizon_Bloom]

[Long reply is Long. Sorry ]

I'll have to echo the sentiments on Ego-death. It 'dies' most likely when the body does, and not much sooner.

On another forum I used to frequent, we had a similar discussion (not involving DMT, but ego death), and some posters came up with the term "Ego Sickness"- characterized by the plethora of negative, self-reinforcing ego-behaviors. This board was rather anti-hippy in it's general sentiment, and ironically, came to a more IMO holistic framing of the ego-issue. I would suggest that you are experiencing this Ego Sickness, and the remedy isn't to put it down like a lame horse.

I don't personally cling to metaphysical ideas, even the lack of them (atheism), I try to stay as plastic as I can, in that respect, because for me personally, any other stance feels disingenuous. That said, I have NOT tried DMT and cannot comment on it's use. I HAVE TRIED psilocybe mushrooms (multiple times), pachanoi cactus, s. divinorum (many times, many strengths, many ways), and a few other minor entheogens.

My first intense experience was on 1.7g of dried mushrooms. I have no idea the specific strain or even species. definitely psilos in retrospect, but not sure they were cubensis. Anyway, I was kind of a fuck-up at that point in my life- dead end job, living with a friend for almost no rent, etc... my maturity was rather stunted by my upbringing, but I was about 19 and really had already crossed into the portion of life where you're supposed to take stock of your baggage and own it properly, but hindsight is a bitch, you know?

Anywho, I was definitely Ego Sick. The trip was offered by a friend, and I was a little hesitant. But, bought the ticket and took the ride. Without getting into a lengthy trip report, I had 5 distinct stages. The come up was invisible until I got a slight body tingle. My friend was already starting his first climb and tried to get me to play guitar for him.

My first climb started at exactly the same time and I felt extremely self conscious. Suddenly, playing guitar seemed like this daunting responsibility. I declined and soon my first peak hit. Everything tinged red, like a camera filter, and my surroundings became gross. I was acutely aware of my hellish state of debauchery and my responsibility for it's perpetuation. Everything was ugly. Smell was revolting. Music was abrasive. Then the intermission.

My second peak went unnoticed at first. No colors, no visuals, no sound or time distortions. Just insight. I realized what had just happened in the first wave, analyzed and characterized it as a Hell-Trip, and thought I was coming down. When the state I was in kept on, with other life-insights flitting in and through my mind, I realized that I wasn't coming down yet, and decided it was a Purgatory-Trip. It was intense in it's own right, lots of physical roller-coaster feelings, but rather monotonous, if enlightening. Final intermission let me know the monotony was over.

My third and final wave started with an intense body tingle and color brightness increasing. I started seeing patterns in the carpet, the walls were breathing, sound became aural. I thought I had peaked, but I could still feel the ratcheting of a roller coaster climb as things intensified. I started to internally freak out over this and began trying to think of things to calm me. For some reason, I decided to do the dishes. So I went to the kitchen and started removing all the dishes from the sink, stacking them on the counter, each plate singing and cooing to me, when I hit a roadblock: no sink stopper! I stood there, heartbroken, when my friend's mother (who was cleaning the garage) that moment came inside and placed the sink stopper next to me without a word. I started crying at the beauty I was experiencing and started doing the dishes. The tinny clink of ceramic and glass underwater became this musical percussion as I washed the dishes, and the paisley patterned draperies hanging in the kitchen window danced back and forth over lapping, each emanating it's own distinct voice, but all of them harmonizing in an angelic chorus sort of like the Song of Hu if you've heard that (youtube has videos with the song). About the time I finished the dishes, my peak was subsiding.

The comedown was immaculate. I felt drained. But I felt buzzed, as well. I was with 4 other very close friends and we had all started to come down about the same time. we started talking a lot more than when we were tripping and sharing experiences.

The next day, I had to wash the dishes again, because though clean, they were all soapy still. So I guess the moral is "Do the damned dishes! But expect you'll have to do them again, anyway."

To this day, hubris remains my cardinal sin, and I keep having to wash my dishes.


Regarding meditation, I tend to agree with Samvega for the most part. I don't think you "lose" it's effects, though. I also feel a little zen or tao about meditation. People seem to do it for a reason, or with a goal, which, when one is proficient at it, it certainly can be used as a tool for that (IME)- but that, to me, is applying meditation, not practicing meditation. When I practice meditation, I do it for it's own sake. It's the same as set and setting for a trip, IMO. I set my intention and make a time and a space for it. But I let go if it after that. Otherwise, it's like struggling against knots that only get tighter. I'm also less likely, approaching this way, to tell myself things like "well that was a sucky meditation."

On the same note, I would recommend doing yoga classes for a while, and then finding an instructor who certifies teachers, and take a teacher training program. It will be intense at times, but Yoga (asanas) and meditation go hand in hand, the combination of which has powerfully enlightening effects, and metamorphic potential. Think of it this way: In yoga, you take on the yoke (yoga/union) and plow your field (mind/heart) and sow your seeds (meditation/karma yogas) which manifest as the fruit of your life's actions. The art of detachment allows one to sow better seed without worry for the fruit, and to enjoy the fruit without begrudging the labor of the plow.

Because "Moksha Bandhaha" - the desire for liberation is the final bondage.

but, this is all in my imperfect experience.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Track down and read the two Nick Sands DMT articles. Essential reading. Would post links but no time right now, sorry.