Would converting freebase to a hydrochloric acid be a better idea for insufflation?
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Snorting DMT DOES work and it works very well!!!!
- Thread starter Ice House
- Start date
endlessness said:
Let me start off by saying that I believe ALL methods of ingestion have their own special hazards.
without a doubt snorting DMT in a base for is the most hazardous, IMO.
My previous response about vaporizing not being proven to be safe was directed at the poster who said ,
I believe vaporizing to be the safest method available, however we dont really know for sure what safe is or how safe it really is.
I clean my vapor genie quite often the reason being is the ammount of crystalization that occurs in the pipe. The pipe carries vapor to the lungs via the mouth and thepharinx and the trachea the bronchioles and into the blood stream.
I would be stupid to think that the crystalization and deposites stop in the GVG. Your entire repiratory track gets those deposits on it. How safe is that? yea I dont know either. I'm sure its allot safer than snorting it though.
I'm going to continue to snort my spice from time to time until I get some hard info that says I shouldnt. I rinse my nasal and sinus passages with saline solution after using and if I feel raw or irritated I will use some anti biotic ointment and give it a break.
My point being, what we do IS inherently hazardous to your health, like it or not.
Endlessness thank you for bringing this issue to light our safety is important.
DMT is a biological molecule, capable of being metabolized/broken down/excreted like any other biological molecule. It won't "crystallize" in your lungs (and if it did, it would immediately dissolve again), it will be absorbed into your blood stream and do what DMT does.Ice House said:
SWIMfriend said:
The condensation of Amine vapor is caused by the relative cold temperature of the glass pipe in comparison to the warm temperature of the vapor.
I would go as far as to say that the windpipe of a human would not be cold enough to cause this immediate condensation and thus crystal formation.
That said, somehow it does condense onto the alveoli somehow. It has been noted that this process of absorption can be sped up by inhaling some fresh air on-top of the lung of DMT vapor, by somewhat cooling said vapor and catalyzing condensation and thus absorption.
I would assume any health risks would arise from a) an impurity's in the product b) physical irritation causing inflammation / infection.
Seeing as no one should be using an impure substance for any reason, and there are few anecdotal reports of infrequent use of DMT vapor causing short term health risks... i think we can state that the physical risks appear to be low.
That's a whole lot of assumption...
As an after thought, burning (or smoking) DMT may well carry considerably more risk then vaporization. Im not sure what DMT would break down to become once pyrolyzed.
For the record, DMT fumarate contains fumaric acid, which when partially combusted can become maleic anhydride (source?).
For the record, DMT fumarate contains fumaric acid, which when partially combusted can become maleic anhydride (source?).
Absorption in the lung doesn't depend on temperature differences. Alveoli are very very small**. Any (virtually all) molecules within that tiny bit of air are going to hit the walls of the alveoli, and almost certainly stick. There's no "crystallization" to any meaningful extent.Xt said:
**A single alveolus has a diameter of 200-300 microns. A molecule of DMT at about 200C is, on average, moving at about FIVE HUNDRED MILES PER HOUR in that small space. Thus, essentially all DMT molecules will whack into tissue and float in interstitial fluids and be taken up into the blood.
I did wonder about this as its the freebase that is vaporized, and thus is not water soluble. Which brings us back on topic... why is freebase DMT absorbed into the bloodstream via the mucus membranes of the nasal passage? A comparative study with salts and freebase would be ideal.
Freebases almost certainly are quickly protonated into ionic form when in contact with physiologic fluids like blood serum.Xt said:
Could you explain further?
I'm sure one of our resident chemists could do a better job...Xt said:
but...freebase is relatively insoluble in water, but any freebase that DOES dissolve does so (I would imagine) by taking on a proton and becoming ionic. In pure water, the process doesn't continue because there aren't free H+ endlessly available. In blood serum there are excellent buffers that keep pH steady--so as one molecule of freebase removes an H+ from serum, another will be released somewhere to make up the deficit...and so all the freebase will "dissolve" which, as I said, no doubt means taking on a proton. IOW the freebase becomes a salt in physiologic solutions (like serum).
Just snuffed some N,N-
Twas more than a breakthrough dose smoked laid out. It's been about 20 minutes and I have been dancing like a liquid snake ;] Had to come here to report the burn wasn't even half as bad as ketamine hcl.
I shall make some DMT HCl soon to experiment further
Twas more than a breakthrough dose smoked laid out. It's been about 20 minutes and I have been dancing like a liquid snake ;] Had to come here to report the burn wasn't even half as bad as ketamine hcl.
I shall make some DMT HCl soon to experiment further
^^ very interested to hear more!
There's certainly every reason to believe that DMT-salt would be less caustic that DMT-freebase. EVERY reason.
There's certainly every reason to believe that DMT-salt would be less caustic that DMT-freebase. EVERY reason.
ice house- i think this is just awesome. i personally want to thank you. its explorers like yourself that have the courage and balls to venture outside the norm to take such leaps then come back and share your experience. i know some may feel this isn't something to celebrate but i firmly disagree. we are all adults here, lets all allow each other to act like the intelligent group of individuals we are by making decision's for ourselves.
after all how much research has been done about shoving dmt up ass's but we see those threads every other month,:lol: !
we find a deeper and broader depth to life and conscious reality than most. its not always by playing things perfectly safe does one achieve that.
this is the kind of stuff just pumps me up. the john glenns of hyperspace. men and women intelligent enough, capable and brave enough to enter these altered states of reality.
thank you my brother. i look forward to hearing more about your work.
after all how much research has been done about shoving dmt up ass's but we see those threads every other month,:lol: !
we find a deeper and broader depth to life and conscious reality than most. its not always by playing things perfectly safe does one achieve that.
this is the kind of stuff just pumps me up. the john glenns of hyperspace. men and women intelligent enough, capable and brave enough to enter these altered states of reality.
thank you my brother. i look forward to hearing more about your work.
This is an interesting thread. I personally wouldn't snort anything anymore. Not because of the dangers or any other reason than I really don't enjoy it. Maybe my nasal cavity is overly sensitive, but anything I've snorted has burned for prolonged periods of time and made it hard for me to enjoy the experience. The next day I would have nose bleeds, runny nose, and extreme pain. I would draw in a deep breath through my nose and it was like breathing fire. So I've just given up on the snorting method.
There's no way you're 440lbs. I'm a huge bastard and I weigh 150kg.
I know this is probably a typo, but I figured I'd ask.Ice House said:
There's no way you're 440lbs. I'm a huge bastard and I weigh 150kg.
SWIMfriend wrote:
not by any usual means in my experience.
I'm surprised at the surprise at the snuffing report!
Thought the Yopo etc snuffs would have made this obvious...
not by any usual means in my experience.
I'm surprised at the surprise at the snuffing report!
Thought the Yopo etc snuffs would have made this obvious...
Ice house:
Here's an topic where the matter of condensation is discussed:
I don't think it's stupid at all to think the condensation would stop in the GVG and not lead to your lungs etc. How's that, when the environment is totally different?
About safety of vaping spice, I don't think there's a healt problem with it, as it is a VAPOR, which at right temperature is actually quite smooth. About proving it's safety, I don't know if there's any articles about it, but I would say it has been vaped since the 60's and if there would be some health problems with that, I think it would have been addressed. The amount of time and people doing it without noticeable damage, can speak for itself. However, snorting can't say much as for now.
When vaping with proper temperature, the body does not react adversely, however when snorting it does burn, and this is already of sign from the body that something's not going smoothly
However, when one snorts solid DMT, it acts in a different manner, and as this is such a new method, there's no point in going around telling people to "go ahead", instead people should understand there might be some risks involved. I don't know who would research the matter, but it sure would be good for those who are interested in this method.
Here's an topic where the matter of condensation is discussed:
I don't think it's stupid at all to think the condensation would stop in the GVG and not lead to your lungs etc. How's that, when the environment is totally different?
About safety of vaping spice, I don't think there's a healt problem with it, as it is a VAPOR, which at right temperature is actually quite smooth. About proving it's safety, I don't know if there's any articles about it, but I would say it has been vaped since the 60's and if there would be some health problems with that, I think it would have been addressed. The amount of time and people doing it without noticeable damage, can speak for itself. However, snorting can't say much as for now.
When vaping with proper temperature, the body does not react adversely, however when snorting it does burn, and this is already of sign from the body that something's not going smoothly
However, when one snorts solid DMT, it acts in a different manner, and as this is such a new method, there's no point in going around telling people to "go ahead", instead people should understand there might be some risks involved. I don't know who would research the matter, but it sure would be good for those who are interested in this method.
justine
Rising Star
۩ said:
Wow, that's great, I snorted ketamine a few times and it wasn't unpleasant at all so I guess I'll try snorting DMT too!
So I understand that you snorted about 50-60mg, right ? Did you broke through ?
By the way DMT Hcl seems to be an oil so you wouldn't be able to insufflate it, why don't you make some DMT fumarate ?
"glyph" says
you mean the freebase?