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Sober in the DMT realm

Migrated topic.
69ron said:
The other alternative is to use caapi. Hmmmm...you need about 50 grams of caapi to get about 100 mg of THH. 100 grams costs about $20 and has about 200 mg THH. So actually, it’s cheaper to buy pure THH than to buy caapi! How is that possible? Did I miscalculate that?
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Not to burst your bubble, but Caapi is cheaper than that, at least with the sources I have, but overall I calculated that the 'pure' THH is equal in price (including slight extraction fee). However, if you buy the Caapi, one would gain the other harmala alkaloids in the Caapi, but then why not get rue instead since it is much cheaper? Of course, the harmala alkaloid ratios are different, though. So, I think it comes down to personal choice, whether you care for more authentic brews, want what ron calls a mentally cleaner experience, or are restricted by cost.

Anyone care to enlighten me as to what is the most potent variety (black/yellow/white) of Caapi and which one has the highest concentration of THH?
 
im thinking the Yellow caapi...ive heard from friends saying its the best...and THH is SWIM's favorite..im feeling the yellow is the way to go


another thing you CAN do..to get more out of your THH is to add theobromine to the brew...or eat 2-3 grams of cacao beans...but theobromine increases the potency of dmt 3-5 times and the potency of caapi 2-3 times...

so what you may want to try..is 50-60mg of THH hcl and 5-10mg of dmt..just as a test to find out how it works...because then..take the same amount of THH..and just up the dmt dosage..i mean..if you took 20-30mg of dmt..that would be between 60-150mg experience..so think about that a little bit..

cacao beans may save TONS of material...SWIM is just waiting on his cacao beans to test this mixture out
 
Some of the stronger caapi has a lot of harmaline in it and that's why it's strong. But some is mostly THH (like cloud caapi). Most caapi is mostly harmine and THH with little or no harmaline.

I'd like to see a list of the alkaloid profile of various caapi types. Does anyone know of one?
 
I looked for some literature on the alkaloid profiles of the different varieties, but I found this, take it as you will:
Subjective comparision of the vine varieties.

If anyone hear could make some sense of it, I'd be ready to hear it. I have no experience with maois other than rue on a aya trip where the light never 'switched on.' The rue made me feel very drunk (no other psychoactives except weed) and the daylight wasn't as bright, but that's hardly comparable to what Brewmaster said. Also, I think we should do well to never take what someone says at face value because saying 'you will feel this from XXX or YYY is such a kind of trip' is only from a subjective perspective on a highly subjective and influenceable state.

I'm going to try the cacao combination soon, as I can testify to its potentiation of mushrooms. However, I don't know about it potentiating things 3x, at least with mushrooms as much as it gave me a very honed-in buzz to underlie the trip. Not saying I certainly wouldn't want to save material, but synergism sorta bleeds into the area of placebo/subjectivity, imho. Expectations, set, and setting seem more important in the realm of psychedelics to me. May I ask where you got those numbers? In the mean time, pretty much any supermarket should have cacao powder. 1 tablespoon is 4g of cacao.
 
Well THH doesn't make you feel drunk like rue can. That's the beauty of it. It leaves your mind completely clear and focused. It's much better than rue.

SWIM has not tried the cocoa combination yet. Let me know if it actually works with aya. I know it works with many others (shrooms, HBWR, etc.).
 
I've been doing some interwebs digging tonight. Here's some things.

Iffn you'd like to know, 3 tablespoons of Hershey's chocolate syrup has ~105mg of theobromine. Also, cacao powder has ~20mg theobromine per gram.

Theobromine versus placebo discrimination and caffeine versus placebo discrimination were studied in two consecutive experiments in seven volunteers who abstained from methylxanthines. Daily sessions involved PO double-blind ingestion of two sets of capsules sequentially, one of which contained drug and the other placebo. Subjects attempted to identify, and were later informed, which set of capsules contained the drug. In each experiment subjects were exposed to progressively lower doses. Five subjects acquired the theobromine discrimination; the lowest dose discriminated ranged from 100 to 560 mg. All seven subjects acquired the caffeine discrimination; the lowest dose discriminated ranged from 1.8 to 178 mg. A final experiment evaluated subjective effect ratings following 560 mg theobromine, 178 mg caffeine and placebo, which were administered double-blind in capsules once daily, five times each in mixed sequence. Caffeine produced changes in both group and individual ratings (e.g. increased well-being, energy, social disposition and alert). Theobromine did not produce changes in group ratings but changed ratings in some subjects. Across subjects, sensitivity to caffeine discriminative effects in the discrimination experiment correlated significantly with the number and magnitude of caffeine subjective effects in the final experiment. This study documents modest discriminative effects of theobromine in humans, but the basis of the discrimination is unclear. This study suggests that commonly consumed cocoa products contain behaviorally active doses of caffeine and possibly theobromine.
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So, the more sensitive to caffeine you are, it seems you are more sensitive to theobromine and other xanthines.

Theobromine can be purchased from chem warehouses very cheaply.

Lastly, it appears that it is very safe to consume en masse and almost anyone, regardless of xanthine sensitivity, could partake if they so desire, should we find it works well.

Does anyone know where Jorkest got his amplification numbers? I'd be much interested to see the source to integrate with the above knowledge.

EDIT: Just can't stay away, lol.


Seems there are quite a number of chocolate constituents which are affecting the brain. 5-htp would be another somethin somethin to add, me thinks.
 
SWIM is anxious to try dmt fumarate, which doesn't require an MAOI at all. Anyone here know how that compares with freebase + THH?
 
Nanaki said:
SWIM is anxious to try dmt fumarate, which doesn't require an MAOI at all. Anyone here know how that compares with freebase + THH?
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Really? Where'd you see this? Also, DMT freebase would be converted into HCl in the stomach.
 
^^^ Maybe I was mistaken. I read that fumarate makes it orally active, and can be sublingual, or pretty much anything but smoked.
 
I was under the impression that there was no form that didn't require an MAOI to be orally active. I was just asking where your source was because I'd be very interested to read about it. I still am actually... :d
 
I don't believe that DMT fumarate is active without an MAOI. It’s slightly stronger than freebase DMT because it absorbs faster, but I do believe it requires an MAOI.

Maybe you're thinking of SWIM's post of DMT N-Oxide, in which SWIM found it to be orally active without an MAOI. But that may just be SWIM. I've not heard of anyone else getting effects from oral DMT N-Oxide without an MAOI.
 
Ron, so is there any benefit of the fumarate over freebase rather than being more stable? Is it a much different experience.

I'm reading around on it, and haven't come to any conclusions, but SWIM will be trying this before long. He already loves his Harmaline-induced DMT experience when smoked. Oral DMT with Harmaline hasn't done anything yet. But he's needing to up that dose.
 
oral dmt is just different than smoking it...when you take an maoi..its slowed down..dmt fumarate doesnt make it different in its effects...it only matters if you take enough maois..and enough dmt...dmt fumarate..is a very stable chemical..and it doesnt need to be converted into a salt to enter the blood stream..because its already a salt...

get something other than harmaline to activate dmt orally...SWIM has much better luck with harmine..or tetrahydroharmine...or even as a combo works..but you MUST do it on an empty stomach..and eat a something light...like a piece of bread or a bowl of cereal...AFTER you take the dmt...you want the dmt and harmalas under any food...
 
SWIM just placed an order for THH. He still has some Harmaline that he might make use of in the next few days though, but doesn't have enough DMT left. He's extracting about 1/2 his MHRB. The other 1/2 will be extracted using FASA.
 
MisterGypsy said:
I've been doing some interwebs digging tonight. Here's some things.

Iffn you'd like to know, 3 tablespoons of Hershey's chocolate syrup has ~105mg of theobromine. Also, cacao powder has ~20mg theobromine per gram.

Theobromine versus placebo discrimination and caffeine versus placebo discrimination were studied in two consecutive experiments in seven volunteers who abstained from methylxanthines. Daily sessions involved PO double-blind ingestion of two sets of capsules sequentially, one of which contained drug and the other placebo. Subjects attempted to identify, and were later informed, which set of capsules contained the drug. In each experiment subjects were exposed to progressively lower doses. Five subjects acquired the theobromine discrimination; the lowest dose discriminated ranged from 100 to 560 mg. All seven subjects acquired the caffeine discrimination; the lowest dose discriminated ranged from 1.8 to 178 mg. A final experiment evaluated subjective effect ratings following 560 mg theobromine, 178 mg caffeine and placebo, which were administered double-blind in capsules once daily, five times each in mixed sequence. Caffeine produced changes in both group and individual ratings (e.g. increased well-being, energy, social disposition and alert). Theobromine did not produce changes in group ratings but changed ratings in some subjects. Across subjects, sensitivity to caffeine discriminative effects in the discrimination experiment correlated significantly with the number and magnitude of caffeine subjective effects in the final experiment. This study documents modest discriminative effects of theobromine in humans, but the basis of the discrimination is unclear. This study suggests that commonly consumed cocoa products contain behaviorally active doses of caffeine and possibly theobromine.
Click to expand...


So, the more sensitive to caffeine you are, it seems you are more sensitive to theobromine and other xanthines.

Theobromine can be purchased from chem warehouses very cheaply.

Lastly, it appears that it is very safe to consume en masse and almost anyone, regardless of xanthine sensitivity, could partake if they so desire, should we find it works well.

Does anyone know where Jorkest got his amplification numbers? I'd be much interested to see the source to integrate with the above knowledge.

EDIT: Just can't stay away, lol.


Seems there are quite a number of chocolate constituents which are affecting the brain. 5-htp would be another somethin somethin to add, me thinks.
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there were some people over in the ayahuasca forum that were experimenting with it
 

this is the forum link i think


edit:

here is a post


druiddream posted
1. organic pure 100% cocoa powder, 1-3 tsp.
2. 2g rue tea or 20g caapi bark
3. With cocoa, 1g chaliponga felt like 5g. for this body, so that's 5x. Duration was increased 100% as well (from 1 hour to 2 hours).
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another quote from some other dude

That guy recently tried to amplify what had been a disappointing batch of Jurema using druiddream's suggestion here. Using his standard, crash the gates of reality with no sense or guide, technique that guy used 1.5 tsp. of cocoa power rather than just the one.

This worked a little too well and he found himself flat on the floor unable to understand or very much recall the experience. He reports an extremely powerful dream, combining the standard sleeping dreamspace with elf-space. In addition there was a very sharp initiation and finish to this space and a very clean finish. Approximately 2 hours spent in spice-light.

That guy feel that cacao is going to be as important to this non-traditional dreamer as the light-bearing admixtures. The caapi-cacao combination is deep, clean and powerful. Approach with caution; use a light hand on the measure.
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I am in tears of gratitude reading this:

Quote:
and no toxic feelings at all. feels rather natural and far from taxing my system. more like relaxing and soothing than tiring. i could best decribe it as being a very nice vibration that resonated inside me, and helped guide me moment to moment finding other similar resonations of peace. subtle though, but the most beautiful things are subtle too.


i felt waves of beautiful warmth pass through my mind and body as they do..


RISH, YES! That's the antidepressant, anxiolytic (anxiety-relieving) feeling that lasts all day. Don't these two lovely spirits dance beautifully together? Once you can actually feel the pyschoactive effects of chocolate with an MAOI, isn't it just amazing?

A little caffeine (be very moderate!) goes very nicely in this SYMPHONY OF LOVE!

And yes, this is far from toxic-feeling! In fact, rue feels more toxic WITHOUT cocoa, eh?

I am in such gratitude that yet another person may be able to benefit from this miracle.


BTW: here's my recipe for making very pleasant rue without a cold extraction:

Take 2g of ground rue. Pour 60ml of hot water on it in a cup. Stir with a fork for no more than 30sec. Immediately filter like coffee through a regular Melitta coffee filter. Add your cocoa, stir, add milk and sweetener to taste. Voila. Takes two seconds (maybe three...)

If you make the rue as I wrote above, it doesn't get that awful rue flavor from boiling rue for 5 minutes. JUST 30 SECONDS, NO ACID!

DRUID
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That is good news to hear. I've just received my rue so I'll be dreaming soon. I'm very interested to see that only 1 g of chaliponga was used, indicating that such a low dose of DMT (<20mg) would activate so well. Also, that syrian rue recipe is very interesting, but I wonder how well it could really work with no acid and only steeped for 30 seconds. A recipe to put on the to-do list.
 
supposedly somebody with lots of experience over on the ayahuasca forum says it works fine...they say it is just like making coffee...and they say it doesnt taste as bad
 
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