Sodium (Bi)carbonate instead of NaOH in basifying DMT for an A/B (ALSO ACETONE EXTRACTION NO LYE NO

[Garulfo]

What do you think about mixing sodium carbonate+sodium hydroxyde to push up the PH a bit, adding it to powdered mimosa, add a bit of water just to make a paste. Let it sit, dry and then extract with acetone.

Could this work ?

Oops, Ron posted just few seconds before

 

[69ron]

Yes it works.

If you defat with acetone first, then the results are far better.

The DMT in mimosa is a salt, most likely DMT tannate. It is practically insoluble in acetone.

If you freebase the DMT, then it's extremely soluble in acetone. Freebase DMT is many times more soluble in acetone than in naphtha.

Just make sure that after you freebase the mimosa that it’s completely dry before extracting the DMT with acetone. If it’s not dry, you’ll get a lot of junk in the acetone.

 

[crakkbakk]

So:

Wash mimosa with acetone. Discard acetone.
Raise pH with sodium carbonate ph 11.
Dump excess amount of heated mag sulf.
Extract DMT-freebase with acetone
Evaporate acetone

This is good right?

 

[Infundibulum]

Bloody hell 69ron, what you write is right.

SWIM believes that there are quite a few new ways of spice extraction that rival A/B - STB approaches and they are in no way more complicated than the existing methods. On the contrary, they are much more straightforward and fool-proof.

It's just a matter of time till a critical mass forms. And definitely good teks are required (this is indeed a real "drawback" of these new methods) so that their simplicity is aptly demonstrated.

 

[Infundibulum]

So:

Wash mimosa with acetone. Discard acetone.
Raise pH with sodium carbonate ph 11.
Dump excess amount of heated mag sulf.
Extract DMT-freebase with acetone
Evaporate acetone

This is good right?

no.

Wash mimosa with acetone. Discard acetone.

Make a 1:1 mix with mimosa:sodium carbonate (even 5 parts mimosa to 1 part sodim carbonate should be fine)

Make it wet to a thin paste-like consistency.

Let it dry completely OR mix with anhydrous magnesium sulfate (= drying agent)

Extract DMT-freebase with acetone

Evaporate acetone

Or the other variation:

a. Make a 1:1 mix with mimosa:sodium carbonate (even 5 parts mimosa to 1 part sodim carbonate should be fine)

b. Make it wet to a thin paste-like consistency.

c. Let it dry completely OR mix with anhydrous magnesium sulfate (= drying agent)

d. Extract DMT-freebase with acetone

e. Salt dmt using FASA (all the crap one does not want stay behind in the acetone)

collect dmt-fumarate, then freebase it using sodium carbonate (repeat steps a-d then evaporate acetone for the totally pure freebase.

 

[crakkbakk]

? that is what I wrote almost word for word?

When discarding the initial acetone, do you have to run it through a filter to catch the dmt or do you just decant it?

Thanks.

I'm getting roughly 1.5 kilograms in a week and I want to try a variety of extractions.

 

[Noman]

You guys, it's not our fault that you are so stuck to the idea of using naphtha and an A/B to get DMT. There are other methods that exist that work.

Good lord Ron, I'm not stuck on A/B or STB - the FASA method actually sounds like a pretty good deal - but the guy was asking a question about an A/B and you've got him thinking that he can pull it with acetone.

 

[Infundibulum]

When discarding the initial acetone, do you have to run it through a filter to catch the dmt or do you just decant it?

Thanks.

I'm getting roughly 1.5 kilograms in a week and I want to try a variety of extractions.

Whatever really suits you better. A guy I was once talking to mentioned that he preferred decanting over filtration.

As far as the amount of the mimosa you mention, this is definitely enough for a lifetime, if done correctly one can get 10-20 grams of spice.

So feel free to experiment with small-scale extractions (50-100g) to see whichever way suits you better before diving in and do kilo amounts

 

[crakkbakk]

This is my general plan:

Split up 1500g into 3x500g.
Preform 5x100g a/b vinegar/lye/naptha extractions
Preform 5x100 STB lye/naptha extractions/super clean up
Preform 5x100 acetone weird extractions
Any other amount I might have I will try other solvents like MEK.

 

[Cheeto]

"The pKa of DMT is 8.68. The pH of sodium bicarbonate is 8.3. So it will surely work, but not as well as sodium carbonate (pH 11.4).

If using such a weak base, you need a solvent that DMT is very highly soluble in so that the partition coefficient is more in favor of the non-polar solvent. That means don’t use naphtha, xylene, toluene, or heptane. Instead use DCM....."



What is DCM?
Is it easy to get?
Where could your average person be able to get some?

I asked this question in another post, not about DCM but PH Plus(sodium carbonate) to replace lye because i can't get any.

When i know enough to make DMT i will be using Hydrochloric acid and sodium carbonate so DCM will be my best option to extract the freebase right?

 

[geeg30]

The acetone for the carbonate extraction - does it have to be anhydrous or is that just for FASA type extractions?

TO Cheeto: DCM is Dichloromethane or Methylene Chloride - used as paint stripper or plastics glue check on wiki for more info. It is one of the best solvents to use for extractions (well depending on what SWIYs wanting to extract). I have found it usually mixed with Methanol eg in Nitromors paint stripper

 

[Cheeto]

"The acetone for the carbonate extraction - does it have to be anhydrous or is that just for FASA type extractions?

TO Cheeto: DCM is Dichloromethane or Methylene Chloride - used as paint stripper or plastics glue check on wiki for more info. It is one of the best solvents to use for extractions (well depending on what SWIYs wanting to extract). I have found it usually mixed with Methanol eg in Nitromors paint stripper"

-----------------------------------------------------
Thanx for the help, could you possibly help me one last time?

After extracting with DCM, is cleaning still required, and the acetone method is cleaning required? I might go the acetone route if its easier, as in no cleaning needed at the end when you have your crystals, if the chemicals are easy to obtain also.

I'm not completely sure of this method, but this is what i see.

1) acetone wash(Mimosa)
2) Dry completly?, thats one thing i don't understand, if your going to use acetone to extract the dmt why do you have to make sure its all evaped before continueing?? If you evape the acetone left in the mix after washing(AFTER washing and discarding until oils are gone) anything left in the acetone will be left behind in the powder being that oils dont evaporate. so why make sure its dry, why not just press on and add some water and sodium carbonate?
3) add water and sodium carbonate(Get the ph to 10-12)
4) Extract freebase with acetone
5) Once again, is cleaning needed here after extracting freebase?

Is acetone easy to obtain, perhaps an easy to get product thats pure or just right for this process?

You said DCM is mixed with something in paint stripper, can you use straight paint striper in this extraction, or do you have to get the DCM out of the paint stripper to use it?

say in my 4 step acetone process cleaning was not required, will the process i think i may have altered a little work, if i do just what a say above will i get good results?

 

[Noman]

The acetone for the carbonate extraction - does it have to be anhydrous or is that just for FASA type extractions?

See what I mean?

 

[Jorkest]

you do NOT want to mix acetone and water together...

1. wash mimosa with acetone to defat
2. mix mimosa 1:1 with sodium carbonate and then add just enough water to make a paste(freebasing spice)
3. DRY mimosa(acetone and water do not mix) make sure its completely dry
4. once dry mix acetone with the resulting powder(mimosa and sodium carbonate) this pulls the freebase spice
5. do the acetone freebase extraction 3 times..save all of this acetone
6. evap acetone down to smaller amount
7. mix 309mg of fumaric acid in 100ml of NEW acetone(this will be enough fumaric acid to salt 1000mg of spice)
8. mix fumaric acid saturated acetone(FASA) with the dmt containing acetone
9. watch dmt fumarate fall out of the solution
10. pour of acetone leaving behind dmt fumarate crytals
11. dry crystals out on a flat surface


now you have a very clean dmt fumarate which can either be eaten with MAOi's or converted into freebase with some more sodium carbonate

to do this mix dmt fumarate with sodium carbonate(1:1) and add a bit of water to make a paste

dry the paste out after mixing it for ten minutes

make sure its dry completely

add acetone to absorb the dmt freebase and then evap the acetone do get nearly pure dmt freebase

you can recrystallize this with heptane or hexane to get nice purrty crytals

 

[69ron]

The acetone for the carbonate extraction - does it have to be anhydrous or is that just for FASA type extractions?

See what I mean?

Yeah...I see what you mean...and I can't stop laughing. It can get really confusing when you have different people talking from completely different perspectives in the same thread.

 

[Cheeto]

you do NOT want to mix acetone and water together...

Thanx for the run down and making it clear to not mix Acetone with water. I don't think i will have any problem getting any of the chemicals in that method. also i think i like this method more. i wasn't to crazy about trying to wash my stuff in ammonia.

One last question, just to make sure its clear... i add 1 part sodium carbonate to Mimosa powder 1 part, thats alot of sodium carbonate, is it possible to drop the amount down more. It can only raise the PH so high, 11.something , am i correct? or is there another reason for using so much?

 

[Jorkest]

im thinking i saw a post somewhere..that said you can use 5mimosa:1sodium carbonate

it should freebase MOST of it

 

[Jorkest]

you also dont have to defat if you do the FASA method

 

[69ron]

you do NOT want to mix acetone and water together...

Thanx for the run down and making it clear to not mix Acetone with water. I don't think i will have any problem getting any of the chemicals in that method. also i think i like this method more. i wasn't to crazy about trying to wash my stuff in ammonia.

One last question, just to make sure its clear... i add 1 part sodium carbonate to Mimosa powder 1 part, thats alot of sodium carbonate, is it possible to drop the amount down more. It can only raise the PH so high, 11.something , am i correct? or is there another reason for using so much?

SWIM is not sure what the minimum amount to use is. If you have pH papers you can test it and see for yourself. You ideally want as high of a pH as possible making the reaction faster. pH 11 is great for DMT, but even pH 9.5 will work fine in this case because you aren’t using naphtha.

 

[Infundibulum]

im thinking i saw a post somewhere..that said you can use 5mimosa:1sodium carbonate

it should freebase MOST of it

Yup. 1:1 mixture is possibly overkill but totally fine to use. It gives someone no room for mistakes. SWIM's FOAF thinks that 5mimosa : 1sodium carbonate will also work perfectly. This is still enough sodium carbonate to make sure that:

1) All the acids from mimosa will get neutralised (THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT, and it consumes a good amount of the sodium carbonate)

2) The rest of the sodium carbonate in the mixture will be enough to raise the pH to acceptable levels. 12 grams of sodium carbonate per litre of water will raise the pH to around 12.

So if the watery paste of mimosa:sodium carbonate has a volume of 1 litre, 12 grams of sodium carbonate are theoretically enough for the extracting. The excess of sodium carbonate (even in a 5m:1sc situation) is used to ensure neutralisation of mimosa' acids.