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Sodium Carbonate A/b screw up

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quiksilver98

quiksilver98

Mike Tripporty
Hey im new here!

SWIM did an extraction the other with 50g of MHRB and sodium carbonate as a base, all was going well until he added the NP and shook the jar. The liquid filled emulsions that would not subside, he tried to add more acidic solution to try and dillute the emulsions (first extraction) and then tried adding a ton of salt, nothing helped, eventually he filtered it all through a coffee filter and made some NP pulls successfully but with little-to no DMT at the end result. He finally got hold of some lye a couple days ago and tried adding it and then doing NP pulls but it doesnt seem to be pulling any alkaloids? What is the problem, is the batch screwed??? He hopes to save it because the acidic solution smelt strongly of DMT before basifiying.

He got more material yesterday and did a AB with lye and the NP pulls came out tinted yellow and had obvious alkaloid activity in it..... non of this happened with the above... :(


Any help would be appreciated!
 
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hey man, I would maybe try a STB, like Nomans Tek...use that simpler method to learn all your basics then apply your new knowledge into a more complicated A/B method. I had lots of trouble with my first try because I also used an A/B method...STB is the way to be(for me)
 
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Hey thanks for the reply


The A/b SWIM is doing right now with lye has turned up positive result, tinted yellow NP and it is freezing nicely, it is the previous extraction with sodium carbonate that has problems that SWIm is trying to salvage(the solution smelt STRONGLY of spice prior to the sodium carbonate attempt at basifying0. Im kinda sketchy about STB's because of the potential lye contam and working with ammonia.
 
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At first SWIm used Lexteks' tek except subbed Sodium carbonate in for lye. He added 46g's of it.Like i said Emulsions formed and only thing that broke up the emulsions was when SWIM filtered the whole solution through a coffee filter. SWIM has excess amount of liquid because in response to the emulsions and bad chemistry he added more acidic solution to dillute the emulsions. He thought the emulsions were due to too much sodium carbonate. Once filtered he tried doing NP pulls adding about 15ml a time at a warm temperature but got next to nothing in yield andNP didnt even tint yellow. He wants to save this batch if he can. He finally got hold of lye and added some and tried to once again do NP pulls with no result but he thinks it may not have been hot enough.


He got more material yesterday,50g MHRB, and did Lextek's again. He simmered in acidic solution for 4-20 hours doing pulls periodically. He then did 2 NP pulls to defat using about 30ml total. Afterward he added 47.5 of lye slowly, and waited for the liquid to calm down its reaction, he then put it in a pot full of water to heat the jar up, he added NP and tialted the jar around for about 5 min, did his first pull and did so for another 5 pulls. Towards the last 2 pulls the NP tinted EXTREMELY yellow he actually decided to freeze it seperatly. The first 4 pulls were only slightly tinted. This extraction seems to be going EXTREMELY WELL soo far. He still seems to be able to pull more out of it considering his last pull was extremely yellow, he ran out of NP and thinks there is still a potential gold mine of spice in the basified solution, or is it secondary alkaloids?
 
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adding acidic solution was your problem.. the ph is supposed to be high (basic), not acidic.. that is what screwed it up and thats why you didnt get any dmt, because it all (or most) turned back into a salt which is not soluble in non-polar solvent...

and yeah seems sodium carbonate's pH is not high enough so there's bigger chance of emulsions.. Usually with time, loads of salt and warm water bath, emulsions can be resolved, but I never tried extracting dmt with sodium carbonate to know if it also works or if emulsions still remain.. So better using lye, or maybe KOH, for liquid extractions, or going fati's or q21's dry lime (CaOH) extractions...

btw, as for your last question, what NP are you using? how big are the pulls you are doing? It could be there is still some alkaloids.... how are you yielding your dmt, freeze precip or evap? Anyways if you do make another pull, make these last pulls longer, mixing ocasionaly over the course of a day or two, before pulling out
 
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Thanks for the reply.

Can SWIm salvage the screwed up batch??

He is using Ronsolons Naphtha. The last pull he did he let it soak for 4 hours. The darker stuff he is evapping and the lighter stuff he is freeze precipping.
 
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Endless is right adding acid to the based solution wasn't too clever. Sodium carbonate can work but it requires a lot of heat and stirring to give the spice that extra push into the solvent, but it doesn't sound like you have the patience so just do an a/b with sodium hydroxide as the base. Also don't sub equal weights of chemicals, go by moles.
 
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I know, but is there any way to salvage it???

Last night SWIM tried adding lye to it but couldnt get enough in it without it falling to the bottom of the jar. He thinks its due tot he high volume of salt and sodium carbonate he added when troubleshooting.
 
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Sure add some lye make it strongly basic, then do a lot of extractions with your non-polar and the spice should migrate over. If nothing comes out of that add some more water to the solution (increase its volume) and base/extract again. Are you using ph papers or a meter?
 
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SWIM doesnt have ph papers he cant seem to find any litimus papers in his area. He tried going to a pool shop but they just had the all in one papers that go upto ph 8-9~. SWIM will try your method but he cant stress enough the fact that the lye jsut falls to the bottom when he tried that previously, hopefully the volume will help. He only has Ronsolons Naptha at this point, he has tuloene but doesnt want to use it indoors due to the fumes..
 
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