Solubility data for alkaloids in d limonene

[Randomness]

Does anybody as the title suggests have any solubility data for alkaloids in d limonene. I have done a few searches but nothing solid has come up and it would be nice to have it all in a easily searched thread.

Mg/ml would be great resource to have for a variety of the more common alkaloids. Also the max amount of spice that can be dissolved in a pull of x ml of limonene when being used as part of an extraction would be handy to have.

I would like to get the ball rolling but my spice is impure (jungle) and my scales are not so good for making fine measurements.

Peace

Randomness.

 

[Infundibulum]

It'd be difficult if not impossible to find solubility data, especially saturation numbers for alkaloids in limonene - partly because the use of limonene is fairly recent. Generally the run-down from what we know empirically is:

dmt freebase and mescaline freebase: very soluble in limonene

harmalas, bufotenine, psilocin (as their respective freebebases) are poorly soluble in limonene. Bufotenine can be crystallised from boiling limonene.

Salts of alkaloids are insoluble in limonene.

That's all in a nutshell and I believe you can find the same info in the wiki. Also

Mg/ml would be great resource to have for a variety of the more common alkaloids. Also the max amount of spice that can be dissolved in a pull of x ml of limonene when being used as part of an extraction would be handy to have.

I doubt this;

it is useless to know specific numbers. Knowing mg/ml solubility for the sake of extractions serves nothing, as the extractions are quite complicated systems as it is. Why bother really determining mg/ml solubilities? just use a bit more solvent and/or make few more pulls if you think the amoutn of solvent you use is not enough. Simple as that.

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

keep pulling until the limonene stops changing color (it should go from clear to yellow to orange to almost red when saturated).

at least that's what i did.

ended up with over 2%

 

[Randomness]

It'd be difficult if not impossible to find solubility data, especially saturation numbers for alkaloids in limonene - partly because the use of limonene is fairly recent.

Yeah that's why I asked. I figured someone on here may have got bored and tested it.

I know that if I do it right I can extract 1g of spice into 50ml hot (hot plate set on 70c) naphtha. I can't seem to get anywhere close to this with d limonene. That's why I was after the data as the limonene is often said to be less selective which to me would seem that therefore should be able to hold more spice.

Naphtha is used for ReX so people are aware that dissolving clean spice works out at about 30ml per gram when hot and less as the temp drops.

I can find nothing correlating to temp/solubility ect for limonene.

I would have thought someone on here would be able to say I usually get x amount off each 100ml pull at x temp until the bark starts to become depleted.

I know none of this information is essential in any way but that does not stop me finding it interesting.

 

[3rdI]

Yeah that's why I asked. I figured someone on here may have got bored and tested it.

well you know what to do when you get a spare 5 mins don't you :d :thumb_up:

 

[Infundibulum]

It'd be difficult if not impossible to find solubility data, especially saturation numbers for alkaloids in limonene - partly because the use of limonene is fairly recent.

Yeah that's why I asked. I figured someone on here may have got bored and tested it.

I know that if I do it right I can extract 1g of spice into 50ml hot (hot plate set on 70c) naphtha. I can't seem to get anywhere close to this with d limonene. That's why I was after the data as the limonene is often said to be less selective which to me would seem that therefore should be able to hold more spice.

The 1g / 50ml of hot naphtha is misleading and most likely incorrect, at least in the context of extraction. If you have a basic MHRB soup containing 1.5 grams of dmt and you make a 50ml hot naphtha pull (properly, with both the mhrb soup and naphtha heated to 70C etc etc) do you expect that you will need just two pulls to take all the dmt out? The answer is, of course not. There is a huge difference between a solvent dissolving an extracted compound and a solvent trying to pull said compound from a complex mixture such as an MHRB soup, this is why knowing solubilities won;t help you much in extracting.

Now, a question out of pure scientific curiosity: did you come to the 1g dmt /50ml naphtha number from your own experience or is it just internet hearsay? And how did you find out that you "can't seem to get anywhere close to this with d limonene"? What was your method of finding out? How much limo did you use and how much dmt did you retrieve?

 

[Randomness]

The 1g / 50ml of hot naphtha is misleading and most likely incorrect, at least in the context of extraction. If you have a basic MHRB soup containing 1.5 grams of dmt and you make a 50ml hot naphtha pull (properly, with both the mhrb soup and naphtha heated to 70C etc etc) do you expect that you will need just two pulls to take all the dmt out?

Yep I sure do. That's what normally happens 2g from two pulls 100g MHRB 50ml solvent each pull. After that just a bit of red inactive waxy oil comes out. MHRB (or MTFB to be botanically correct) is fully depleted of goodies.

Never underestimate what a magnetic stirrer can do for an extraction.

I normally use the max ion salt tek modified for a stirrer.

Was going to try and just swap out the naphtha for limonene but I changed to many parameters to be scientific and used to much MHRB so could not stir. Had to decant some into a separate vessel. Now it seems to be taking a hundred million pulls to get my goodies out with limonene. Each pull seems a fairly consistent amount which leads me to believe that either the limonene is not holding much or my technique of salting is rubbish (20ml vinegar per 50ml pull left overnight after agitation) and leaving spice in the limonene.

That is why I wanted solubility data. If someone had got back and said that 1g will easily dissolve in 20ml then I would say my salting is rubbish. If the answer had been say 500mg in 100ml then I would know that the limonene is causing a bottleneck in the process.

I have noticed that a lot of the teks written up for limonene are dry treks and all seem to use large (for me) pulls. This would suggest that spice is not massively soluble in limonene. I try to get the base and pulls done quickly as I have kids and although it is tucked right out of the way I don't like having a potentially harmful soup around the place for any longer than I need to. Many pulls over a few weeks is not good for me not compared to 45 mins with the basic soup and then finished.

limonene does seem a lot less toxic than naphtha so I would rather work with it.


I assumed that someone would know roughly what limonene can hold and that it would be useful information to have available on the nexus.

 

[Randomness]

Yeah that's why I asked. I figured someone on here may have got bored and tested it.

well you know what to do when you get a spare 5 mins don't you :d :thumb_up:

Yep test it myself and report back then I will be at the cutting edge of psychedelic science. Lol

I am always amazed that no one seems to know what 5meo is soluble in. You would have thought that someone with access would have tested. If I had some I'd dissolve it in acidic water and then try to work out how to get it back out again.

 

[endlessness]

The very factor you claim to let you pull everything in the first pulls (magnetic stirrer) is what you are NOT using now when you extract with limonene... So I don't think you should so fast think that limonene doesn't pull as well as naphtha.

Right now I`m not in a situation to do the tests but sometime in the future I could if nobody has done it till then.

 

[Randomness]

keep pulling until the limonene stops changing color (it should go from clear to yellow to orange to almost red when saturated).

at least that's what i did.

ended up with over 2%

Are you talking about the colour change over one pull or with salting and then re pulling using the now more colourful limonene. I have just been pulling for 24h then salting (24h in vinegar) and repeating must have done 8 to 10 pulls and they have all given only small yields although I am on my way to 2 percent.

 

[Randomness]

The very factor you claim to let you pull everything in the first pulls (magnetic stirrer) is what you are NOT using now when you extract with limonene... So I don't think you should so fast think that limonene doesn't pull as well as naphtha.

Right now I`m not in a situation to do the tests but sometime in the future I could if nobody has done it till then.

I am using the stirrer on most of the extract. I tried to do 150g as opposed to 100g it was to thick so I poured a third(ish) out into a separate vessel and did two extractions.

I did f**k up good and proper though I should have only changed the one parameter. I am not claiming limonene is not as good. It does clearly have different properties from naphtha (it smells lovely for a start). I am sure that both solvents have there place depending on what factors are most important to your extraction.

The next time I extract I will do what I should have done this time and repeat my naphtha extraction 100 percent but with limonene and no extra bark (idiot).

To top it off all off I spilt a load of freebase mixed with water down the back of my soundsystem so will never know the full yield from this extraction.

Much respect to everyone at the nexus.

 

[Infundibulum]

The 1g / 50ml of hot naphtha is misleading and most likely incorrect, at least in the context of extraction. If you have a basic MHRB soup containing 1.5 grams of dmt and you make a 50ml hot naphtha pull (properly, with both the mhrb soup and naphtha heated to 70C etc etc) do you expect that you will need just two pulls to take all the dmt out?

Yep I sure do. That's what normally happens 2g from two pulls 100g MHRB 50ml solvent each pull. After that just a bit of red inactive waxy oil comes out. MHRB (or MTFB to be botanically correct) is fully depleted of goodies.

Never underestimate what a magnetic stirrer can do for an extraction.

I normally use the max ion salt tek modified for a stirrer.

Very interesting to know, but a but hard to believe based on my experience...On the other hand the use of stirrer (which I never used in my extractions) might be responsible for such an outstanding result, so please do not take my disbelief too seriously.

 

[Randomness]

Infundibulum. I don't take anything to seriously and I wouldn't be offended if you did not believe me. I am naturally sceptical and tend not to just take things as fact. I would go as far as to say that I think it is foolish to just believe some random bloke on the internet just because he assures you something is true.

Back to point this post was not about what I could dissolve in naphtha with my stirrer. I was hoping this would be about the solubility of different alkaloids in limonene I was hoping to end up with some info that could be used as a reference or go in the wiki. So far it seems that you have been the only one to respond with a rough idea of which alkaloids are very soluble (can be extracted with limonene) and also which are slightly soluble (could poss clean them using limonene?) so thank you for that info. I will be editing my first post to include this.