Solubility of DMT and Harmalas (vinegar vs glycerin)

[maranello551]

How do white vinegar and glycerin compare as solvents for light and Harmala alkaloids?

This would be in order to perfect tinctures for oral administration.....white vinegar has been used thus far to decent effect......

I am hoping to concentrate more light and MAOI alkaloids into less tincture volume and possibly "better" the flavor of both.

I have been opposed to use of Ethyl alcohol, as I feel the addition of it (in any significant quantity) would taint the experience to an unpleasant degree.

Thank you.

Blessings,

M.

 

[pitubo]

A tincture is by definition an alcoholic solution.

Harmala acetates and dmt acetates are highly soluble. If the dissolution of freebase harmalas and freebase dmt leaves too much volume of liquid, you could either use a more concentrated form of acetic acid than the standard 4% in vinegar or simply boil down the harmala and dmt solution to a smaller volume as desired.

 

[maranello551]

A tincture is by definition an alcoholic solution.

Harmala acetates and dmt acetates are highly soluble. If the dissolution of freebase harmalas and freebase dmt leaves too much volume of liquid, you could either use a more concentrated form of acetic acid than the standard 4% in vinegar or simply boil down the harmala and dmt solution to a smaller volume as desired.

You're right about it not being a tincture. I should have called it a suspension.

Harmala and dmt acetates are highly soluble only in certain solvents obviously.

You have a point in saying that dissolving the alkaloids in more concentrated acetic acid should work. Would simply reducing 5% vinegar accomplish this, or would it retain the 5% acidity as it reduces?

I don't see reducing the alkaloid saturated solution as a solution (no pun intended) to this problem.....even if acidity was increased with reduction, the reduction of volume of the solvent would negatively compensate for the increased efficacy of it. This is to say that if acidity were to not increase, I would be further supersaturating the solvent, resulting in precipitate, and if acidity were to increase, I would be left in the same situation.....a effective solvent, but a smaller volume of it, resulting in a possibly identical amount of dissolved solute.

Again, it seems that if a part of your advice is indeed valid, it would be the part suggesting to reduce the solvent to increase acidity (reducing down no further than to the volume necessary for total solute dissolution), and only then, to introduce/dissolve the solute to/in it.

Does this sound accurate?

Are freebase or acetate harmalas and dmt no more soluble in glycerin, by chance?.....I would be thrilled if I could avoid the rancid acidity of acetic or citric acid......

 

[pitubo]

You're right about it not being a tincture. I should have called it a suspension.

Solution? A suspension is undissolved solids in a liquid.

Harmala and dmt acetates are highly soluble only in certain solvents obviously.

E.g. water.

You have a point in saying that dissolving the alkaloids in more concentrated acetic acid should work. Would simply reducing 5% vinegar accomplish this, or would it retain the 5% acidity as it reduces?

No. Acetic acid and water have too close a boiling point to effectively separate the two by boiling or distillation. If you want more concentrated acetic acid solution than vinegar, your best bet is to find a product like "essence of vinegar" or buy it pure (glacial acetic acid) from a chemical supplier.

I don't see reducing the alkaloid saturated solution as a solution (no pun intended) to this problem.....even if acidity was increased with reduction, the reduction of volume of the solvent would negatively compensate for the increased efficacy of it.

The idea is to react equimolar amounts of acetic acid on one side and harmala and dmt freebases on the other side. After this, there would be no residual acidity nor alkalinity. Reducing the volume of a neutral solution by evaporating water does not change the acidity.

You will need to calculate the amounts of freebases and acetic acid solution necessary for neutralization.

This is to say that if acidity were to not increase, I would be further supersaturating the solvent, resulting in precipitate, and if acidity were to increase, I would be left in the same situation.....a effective solvent, but a smaller volume of it, resulting in a possibly identical amount of dissolved solute.

Reduce until saturation. If you reduce too much and a precipitate forms, simply add back a little water until everything dissolves again. Reducing a neutral solution does not change the pH.

Again, boiling down a solution containing acetic acid also doesn't change the pH much either, due to the close boiling points of it and water. Boiling down a solution of citric acid will increase the concentration of citric acid and the pH as well.