Something that I'd Love your opinions on.

[ColorfulElfBoy]

The concept was what is real, and is the DMT experience real.

Real is talking about a physical substance, a hard reality, a permanence of matter that is more consistent than the (relatively) ever-changing mind. Matter is energy condensed, as Einstein showed. And therfore longer lasting than the fluid mind. So relative to our lubricated mind, the condensed energy/slow energy/matter is more permanent aka more real, more solid, Than our mind. I Don't think because something is more fluid and more ethereal than the matter around us makes it less real, it just literally makes it more esotrical. If you remove time from our experience, you will be reveled as your ultimate and most consistent expression. Your inner true self. If you do the mental concept of removing time from our experience of life, it's all reveled. What is and was real is only a matter of time.




What do you think?

 

[dragonrider]

We tend to look at "reality" as a fairly simple concept. But it is very problematic.

Usually, when we say that something is real, what we mean is that there is an external world containing a certain state of affairs X, very exactly matching a description Y.

Almost everyone who ever spent serious time deeply contemplating the concept of "reality" though, eventually came to the conclusion that the external world is not directly accessable to us and that our concept of reality is intimately connected to ourselves and the thing we are.

It is tempting to directly speak of counsciousness here, but let's not completely rule out the
Possibility yet, that a non-counscious AI could someday be using the concept in almost the same way as we do.

To us though, it is very much linked to the organism we are. (Much of what in this sense could be said about us could be said about any such theoretical AI as well ofcourse, if we changed the terminololy of organisms to that of machines)

For philosophers like descartes, counsciousness is the basis of our knowledge of reality. "I think, therefore i am". I am aware of my own existance, therefore there can eventually be certainty about at least one thing. There must be something that is at least partly known to itself and that refers to itself as "me".

The organism that constitutes this "me" is tasked a certain way though. The system that generates our "me", is wired for survival.
What our eyes can see, is what is usefull for our survival to see. What we can smell is usefull for our organism to smell.

My personal opinion is that what we think is "real", is therefore ultimately a sort of survival roadmap. A map is accurate if it brings you where you need to be. There is also no other way for us to know if a map is correct, then to see if it passes this test.

So i would say that ultimately, the earth is not flat, not because satelite pictures show us it isn't, but because we don't fall off when we run realy far.

 

[Voidmatrix]

I'd like to piggyback off of what was concisely said by dragonrider. In many respects our concept of reality starts with ourselves and what we experience, internally and externally. It's predicated largely upon apparent input from our senses, which in many regards we have seen as fallicious and limited in telling us about existence. We are thus separated in varying degrees from the phenomenal world and what we call reality. Look up the anthropic principle. Very much in line with dragonrider's thoughts.

Some attempt a distinction between imagination and reality. But couldn't one argue that the imaginary has some sense of reality, otherwise it couldn't be experienced internally.

We like to try to make clear statements about reality through objective frameworks. What's funny is the objective frameworks are only attempts at objectivity and are real(ly) intersubjectively derived claims; many subjective experiences being similar enough to each other on an apparent basis.

Sorry more wasn't said better. Have a lot on my mind and dealing with a lot presently.

One love

 

[Th Entity]

I haven't thought deep into this topic, because i believe it's a rabbit hole that leads to more questions and its always inconclusive. I think that when people describe something as "real", they question its realness by associating it with the current understanding and knowledge and the current possibilities in the known ordinary reality. Something described as "real" has to be bound by our current understandings of reality itself, to be labeled as real.

Before everything else that we like to describe ourselves as, we are animals.
And we evolved for millions of years, and those millions of years weight more than couple hundred years of technological developlment. We are still wired to function in the natural world, we are just conditioned as we grow up.

Describing what is real, intelligent, conscious etc.. by us is nothing more than a subjective opinion, currently bound to our own understanding. Everything you experience is real, because it leaves an impact on you, it affected you in some way. There are a lot of non physical and impossible to measure/see/touch phenomenon that influence you, concious and unconcious, which impacts your day, mood, emotional state. People in the marketing industry, the news, politicians are well aware of how the human brain functions and they are actively using that awareness to control, sell and influence beliefs and even thoughts, the best psychologists in the world are working for the biggest companies out there, Facebook, CocaCola etc. One of the functions that we keep from the millions of years of evolution is fear. Back in the day it used to serves us a lot by protecting us from predation, now not so much, because the risk of predation is very limited. Children are afraid of the darkness and monsters, because that used to be a real thing. Back in the day we would be very vulnerable to predation by nocturnal animals, its genetic memory. Why are children not afriad of bullets, atomic bombs etc.?

Whatever, sorry for the rant.. i went a little sideways from the topic. Everything you experience is real both the "good" and "bad" and actually the concept of good and bad is subjective and perspective based, its just a label. Everything is real, nothing is true but you have to believe something!

 

[Exitwound]

I think you will agree that memory is a basic component required for human story. You need memory for identity, for keeping if->then. When there is no time, there is no identity, there just is. So I think you are right, time perception is one of things that condenses mental reality into material one.

Reagarding what is real - all is real

 

[Seeingisbelieving]

Dreaming and the waking state are two very different things. I think that psychedelics blend these two distinct aspects of conscious experience. The fun part about existence is using your mind to dream of an idea and then working hard to create that reality. The idea was birthed within your mind. We are all using a website created within the minds of us all and then outwardly projected for all of us to interact together and that is mind blowing.

happy 420

 

[dragonrider]

I think you will agree that memory is a basic component required for human story. You need memory for identity, for keeping if->then. When there is no time, there is no identity, there just is. So I think you are right, time perception is one of things that condenses mental reality into material one.

Reagarding what is real - all is real

Yes. But could there still be any awareness of that reality without time?

 

[Bisy]

What exactly makes something real? How much of our lives are spent dreaming? Why wake from a lucid dream and consider it anything other than real? During the dream it was real.

There's a guy in my town, homeless guy that is always arguing with someone that isn't there, but I've no doubt whatsoever that to him, it's very real.

 

[Exitwound]

I think you will agree that memory is a basic component required for human story. You need memory for identity, for keeping if->then. When there is no time, there is no identity, there just is. So I think you are right, time perception is one of things that condenses mental reality into material one.

Reagarding what is real - all is real

Yes. But could there still be any awareness of that reality without time?

This is a good question.

I think this is what ultimately "God level experiences" are - timeless awareness, but we can't store them wholly in memory, because they are timeless.

I also think, that by definition, "the God consciousness" must be above time.