speculations regarding Mucuna pruriens

[entheogenic-gnosis]

Mucuna pruriens

The seeds of Mucuna pruriens have been used for treating many dysfunctions in Tibb-e-Unani (Unani Medicine).[8] It is also used in Ayurvedic medicine. -wikioedia

Dried leaves of M. pruriens are sometimes smoked.[4] it is also used in siddha system of medicine for various purposes.-Wikipedia

It has long been used in traditional Ayurvedic Indian medicine -Wikipedia

Mucuna pruriens, "The leaves, seeds, stems and roots contain L-Dopa, Serotonin, 5-HTP, and Nicotine, as well as N,N-DMT, Bufotenine, and 5-MeO-DMT. -Wikipedia;list of psychoactive plants


Some scholars assert that Ayurveda originated in prehistoric times,[16] and that some of the concepts of Ayurveda have been discovered since the times of Indus Valley Civilization and earlier.[17] Ayurveda significantly developed during the Vedic period and later some of the non-Vedic systems such as Buddhism and Jainism also developed medical concepts and practices that appear in the classical Ayurveda treatises -wikipedia

Siddha (Tamil 'Great thinker/wise man', Sanskrit, "perfected one" ) is a term that is used widely in Indian religions and culture. It means "one who is accomplished". It refers to perfected masters who have achieved a high degree of physical as well as spiritual perfection or enlightenment. -wikipedia

These ancient cultures were also familiar with peganum harmala seeds...

Why has this never been suggested as a candidate for soma?

Could the ancients on the Indian subcontinent used this plant in combination with peganum harmala seeds?

If this plant, which contains L-Dopa, Serotonin, 5-HTP, Nicotine, N,N-DMT, Bufotenine, and 5-MeO-DMT, were to be brewed with peganum harmala seeds, you would have one potent and quite incredible entheogen...

It is said this plant was known, used by, and smoked by the siddha, and part of ancient Indian and Asian medicine....

I think this plant is a great candidate for soma that has never been considered (at least not to my knowledge), even more intriguing is the possibility of an ancient ultra-potent ayahuasca analogue prepared from this plant (containing L-Dopa, Serotonin, 5-HTP, Nicotine, N,N-DMT, Bufotenine, and 5-MeO-DMT) with peganum harmala seeds (containing harmine, harmaline, tetrahydroharmine)

peganum harmala seeds were seen as sacred in ancient times and in the same regions where Mucuna pruriens was known, they were burned on hot stones as an incense, but I'm certain ancient peoples of the old world were aware of their psychoactive (medicinal) effects

The funny thing is, using admixture plants, south American shamans produce ayahuasca brews containing Nicotine, N,N-DMT, Bufotenine, and 5-MeO-DMT along with the harmala MAOIs...plus this would have L-Dopa, Serotonin, and 5-hydroxy-tryptophan...

Does this plant have history as a source of tryptamine intoxication which one could consider psychedelic?

Does this plant have any historical connection to peganum harmala?

-eg

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

It is said this plant was known, used by, and smoked by the siddha...

Would smoking potent parts of dried Mucuna pruriens plant matter be sufficient to produce psychedelia?

-eg

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

Mucuna pruriens is reported to contain tryptamine alkaloids, specifically 5MeoDMT, Dimethyltryptamine and related alkaloids, in all parts of the plant. Also reported to contain L-dopa in seeds, a dopamine precursor utilised in parkinsons disease.

Mucuna pruriensThe main plant chemicals found in velvet bean include: alkaloids, alkylamines, arachidic acid, behenic acid, betacarboline, beta-sitosterol, bufotenine, cystine, dopamine, fatty acids, flavones, galactose d, gallic acid, genistein, glutamic acid, glutathione, glycine, histidine, hydroxygenistein, 5-hydroxytryptamine, isoleucine, l-dopa, linoleic acid, linolenic acid, lysine, mannose d, methionine, 6-methoxyharman, mucunadine, mucunain, mucunine, myristic acid, niacin, nicotine, oleic acid, palmitic acid, palmitoleic acid, phenylalanine, prurienidine, prurienine, riboflavin, saponins, serine, serotonin, stearic acid, stizolamine, threonine, trypsin, tryptamine, tyrosine, valine, and vernolic acid

mdidea.com - Ressources et information concernant mdidea Resources and Information.

mdidea.com réunit des informations et annonces. Nous espérons que vous y trouverez les informations que vous recherchez !

www.mdidea.com

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TRADITIONAL USES: In parts of India, M. pruriens seeds are ground and mixed with cow’s milk to produce an aphrodisiac. It has been suggested by some scholars that the seeds have even been used as part of Tantric sex rituals in a manner similar to Alstonia scholaris seeds. Certain Indian folk medicine texts also name M. pruriens “brother of the great soma“, suggesting greater depth to the ritual usage of this plant than we are presently aware of (Ratsch 1998, 369).

Since M. pruriens seeds contain DMT, they are sometimes used in Ayahuasca analogs. The seeds are also used in some Haitian zombie potions, perhaps due to the irritating hairs that cover the seeds. The seeds are used as aphrodisiacs in Panama and Brazil in the form of water or alcohol extracts, doubling as a nerve tonic (Voogelbreinder 2009, 237).
In 1989 an outbreak of “acute toxic psychosis” occurred in Mozambique during a period of famine which resulted in locals surviving primarily on poorly cooked Mucuna pruriens seeds. This diet lead to very strange behaviors and psychological breaks with default reality. The seeds are generally used in Mozambique as an aphrodisiac in a milk decoction of 120g of seed material to 1 liter of milk (Voogelbreinder 2009, 237).

Mucuna pruriens - Cowhage - Entheology.com

The root is useful in diseases of the nervous system, such as facial paralysis, hemiplegia, and so forth. A strong infusion of the root sweetened with honey is given in cases of cholera morbus. The root is also useful for delirium in fevers and when powdered and made into a paste it is applied...

entheology.com

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Mucuna pruriens is a tropical vine growing from 3-18 meters with white to dark purple hanging flowers. It's bean-like pods are covered with long stinging hairs and contain black, white, or tan seeds. The leaves, seeds, stems and roots contain L-Dopa, Serotonin, 5-HTP, and Nicotine, as well as N,N-DMT, Bufotenin, and 5-MeO-DMT. It has a tradition of use as a Ayurvedic aphrodesiac, treatment for parkinsons, ayahuasca admixture, and coffee substitute. Erowid Mucuna pruriens Vault

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I've been searching for old world DMT containing plants known in India, Asia, Eurasia, etc... for quite some time, somehow this is one I missed...

Though it seems it's commonly consumed in large amount as a,medicine without being an entheogen...

What's the deal with this species?

-eg

 

[rOm]

I've been looking at this plant, and I see it is more advertised as a L-dopa source more so than its other alcaloids, such as the tryptamines it contains ( 5 MeO-DMT being one of them ). The thing I got from searching was that it does not contain substancial amounts of psychedelic tryptamines for it to be a good candidate for using it in high doses. However it might be good for microdosing ( such tryptamines ) and has good quality for testosterone supplement ( and msucle buiding), has good stimulant and aphrodisiac qualities as well as anti-depressive.

Now I don't have first hand with this one and high dose are known to cause psychological imbalance or manic behavior so please consider this before using very high doses.

I will report back if I do gather more experience from this bean.

Mucuna Pruriens benefits, dosage, and side effects

Mucuna Pruriens: The latest and most important research. Expert analysis and supporting evidence for practical effects, potential risks, and more.

examine.com

this is a synthesis of it's usage and dosage with a few research done on various of it's effect on human biology.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

I'm not certain that the other psychoactives are in fact "too low to be relevant", in most instances this is probably the case, though I feel that there can be situations where this plant can produce significant amounts of these tryptamines...

There have been studies done on the seeds that failed to find any tryptamine compounds Erowid.org: Erowid Reference 7571 : Alkaloids of Mucuna Pruriens Chemistry and Pharmacology : Ghosal, S., Singh, S. and Bhattacharya, S.K.

Though it states that other studies found them in the leaf and other plant matter...

It also depends on what part of the plant that you are using, and what time of year the part of the plant was harvested, as well as the individual genetics of the plant...

The other thing is, DMT, 5-meo-DMT, 5-ho-DMT, all these compounds can be eaten without producing any real effect. There's an enzyme called mono amine oxidase in your body that destroys mono amines attempting to gain access to your system...so you could take the plant as a supplement, and all the psychedelic tryptamine compounds would be destroyed...

My understanding was that it was the key source for deriving natural L-DOPA, which is extracted, rather than the actual plant being ingested.

And in the cases where the actual plant matter is ingested, any mono amines would be destroyed, so it really does not matter that they are there...

In parts of India, M. pruriens seeds are ground and mixed with cow’s milk to produce an aphrodisiac. It has been suggested by some scholars that the seeds have even been used as part of Tantric sex rituals in a manner similar to Alstonia scholaris seeds. Certain Indian folk medicine texts also name M. pruriens “brother of the great soma“, suggesting greater depth to the ritual usage of this plant than we are presently aware of (Ratsch 1998, 369).

I'm with Mr. Ratsch on this one...I see great potential for an entheogen, specially in combination with an MAOI, such as peganum harmala seeds...

Though even modern reports of using this plant with an MAOI seem to produce inconclusive results, I still feel there may be some special time of harvest or preperations or genetics that may allow an entheogen to be derived from it...

It's just another thing to take into account when researching potential entheogens of the ancient world, something to keep in mind.

I'm still continuing my research, and have not really put much time or effort into this plant species...Though I don't feel it's a total dead end, there actually may be something significant here.

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Mucuna pruriens has also been used as a yagé admixture in modern times, though I'm unsure of the intentions regarding this mixture of the effects it produces when it's present in a yagé decoction.

-eg

 

[Jees]

...I think this plant is a great candidate for soma that has never been considered (at least not to my knowledge), even more intriguing is the possibility of an ancient ultra-potent ayahuasca analogue prepared from this plant (containing L-Dopa, Serotonin, 5-HTP, Nicotine, N,N-DMT, Bufotenine, and 5-MeO-DMT) with peganum harmala seeds (containing harmine, harmaline, tetrahydroharmine)...

...Though even modern reports of using this plant with an MAOI seem to produce inconclusive results...

As far as I know of, the conclusions are quite clear: don't do it.

L-dopa and MAOI are in general considered non compatible to dangerous, from here:

taking levodopa with MAOIs runs the risk of a hypertensive crisis and levodopa should not be taken for at least 2 weeks after MAOIs; the risk of taking RIMAs (specifically moclobemide) with levodopa is one of increased side effects which include anorexia, nausea, vomiting, agitation, postural hypotension, tachycardia, arrythmias, hypomania, psychosis, depression, headache, flushing, gastrointestinal bleeding, itching, rashes, abnormal involuntary movements.

The thing to recognise about such advice is that some people may not suffer such adverse effects, but there is a significant likelihood of having such a response that it can only be considered wise to avoid such combinations

This kind of remarks are also to find on other forum.

Blood pressure rise experiment, see attachment.

I've combined L-dopa (mucuna extract) and maoi though, at VERY careful levels, in combination with spice, all oral, and could notice beneficial effects. But I would never ever advise it to take the risk.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

...I think this plant is a great candidate for soma that has never been considered (at least not to my knowledge), even more intriguing is the possibility of an ancient ultra-potent ayahuasca analogue prepared from this plant (containing L-Dopa, Serotonin, 5-HTP, Nicotine, N,N-DMT, Bufotenine, and 5-MeO-DMT) with peganum harmala seeds (containing harmine, harmaline, tetrahydroharmine)...

...Though even modern reports of using this plant with an MAOI seem to produce inconclusive results...

As far as I know of, the conclusions are quite clear: don't do it.

L-dopa and MAOI are in general considered non compatible to dangerous, from here:

taking levodopa with MAOIs runs the risk of a hypertensive crisis and levodopa should not be taken for at least 2 weeks after MAOIs; the risk of taking RIMAs (specifically moclobemide) with levodopa is one of increased side effects which include anorexia, nausea, vomiting, agitation, postural hypotension, tachycardia, arrythmias, hypomania, psychosis, depression, headache, flushing, gastrointestinal bleeding, itching, rashes, abnormal involuntary movements.

The thing to recognise about such advice is that some people may not suffer such adverse effects, but there is a significant likelihood of having such a response that it can only be considered wise to avoid such combinations

This kind of remarks are also to find on other forum.

Blood pressure rise experiment, see attachment.

I've combined L-dopa (mucuna extract) and maoi though, at VERY careful levels, in combination with spice, all oral, and could notice beneficial effects. But I would never ever advise it to take the risk.

Thank you,

Yes, I was unsure as to what the intention as an admixture to yagé was...

I would say any phenethylamine / MAOI combination comes with these risks...aside from mescaline, which appears to be relatively safe with an MAOI.

My thinking as an ancient ayahuasca analogue was a bit ill-informed, when beginning to research this plant I saw DMT, 5-methoxy-DMT, nicotine, etc...and saw it had ancient use as a medicine in a part of the globe where I suspect entheogen use must have been more prevalent than recorded, and got a bit excited...

Though after further research, this plant has been moved to the "keep in mind file", and I have moved on to search for more potential candidates.

-eg

 

[Jees]

Your speculations of L-dopa + maoi seems confirmed by this quote from erowid:

History of Ayurvedic Use
Over two thousand years ago the Ayurvedic physician Sushruta wrote in the Sushruta Samhita (one of the two key texts of Ayurvedic medicine) that Mucuna combined with Tribulus terrestris is a powerful aphrodisiac and tonic. Mucuna contains DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, and Bufotenin (amongst other alkaloids) and Tribulus terrestris contains harmine, an MAOI.

Maybe the Tribulus terrestris might have agents to control blood pressure spike?

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

Your speculations of L-dopa + maoi seems confirmed by this quote from erowid:

History of Ayurvedic Use
Over two thousand years ago the Ayurvedic physician Sushruta wrote in the Sushruta Samhita (one of the two key texts of Ayurvedic medicine) that Mucuna combined with Tribulus terrestris is a powerful aphrodisiac and tonic. Mucuna contains DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, and Bufotenin (amongst other alkaloids) and Tribulus terrestris contains harmine, an MAOI.

Maybe the Tribulus terrestris might have agents to control blood pressure spike?

That's a possibility....Tribulus terrestris is known to have medicinal uses, perhaps some of the compounds responsible prevent possible hypertensive crisis or other risks associated with phenethylamine/MAOI combination...

I can't believe that Mucuna pruriens also has history of ancient use with an MAOI...

Now I'm wondering...is there a proper time of harvest or proper part of the plant to use to form a viable ancient ayahuasca analogue?

Perhaps this plants practitioners knew that if you harvest the proper part of the Mucuna pruriens plant at the proper time of year it would be fully psychedelic when combined with an MAOI...

Perhaps modern ayahuasqueros or botanists need to further investigate this as well...

If samples were taken from all parts of the plant, and from plants grown in several soil and nutrient conditions, as well as a variety of samples collected featuring plants grown in different geographical locations, and samples harvested at different times of the year, and ran tests, I'm sure they eventually would find a specific part of the plant and a specific time of year and specific soil/growing conditions that would yield high tryptamine content, DMT, 5-ho-DMT and 5-meo-DMT specifically.

Certain Indian folk medicine texts also name M. pruriens “brother of the great soma“, suggesting greater depth to the ritual usage of this plant than we are presently aware of (Ratsch 1998, 369).

I've always thought of yagé as the sister of the mushroom...

(I've also always thought of stropharia cubensis as being key in most cases of "soma", though the term soma may actually refer to several substances and practices, I've found numerous religious references to the mushroom in the Vedic texts, the Mahabharata, and the gita, and am convinced that a good deal of the accounts of soma were referring to the mushroom ancient stropharia cubensis textile discovered - Open Discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus This thread dives into all the soma speculations...)

How ever, now I'm thinking that there may have been a known preperations of Mucuna pruriens with an MAOI resulting in a true ancient ayahuasca analogue!

Mucuna pruriens, "The leaves, seeds, stems and roots contain L-Dopa, Serotonin, 5-HTP, and Nicotine, as well as N,N-DMT, Bufotenine, and 5-MeO-DMT. -Wikipedia;list of psychoactive plants

Ok, so brewed with Tribulus terrestris or peganum harmala seeds you would be looking at a chemical profile of this nature:

harmala alkaloids, L-DOPA, 5-hydroxy-tryptamine, 5-hydroxy-tryptophan, nicotine, dimethyltryptamine, 5-hydroxy-dimethyltryptamine, and 5-methoxy-DMT.

There are south American yagé brews which contain admixture plants in an effort to obtain a similar chemical profile....

Now, most will tell you that the levels of DMT, 5-ho-DMT, and 5-meo-DMT would be to low to be relevant, though I have yet to see evidence confirming this, plus one must take into account the fluctuating levels of compounds present in a plant resulting from soil conditions, time of year, geographical location of the plant, and the part of the plant used...

The fact that there was a known ancient MAOI/DMT medicine says enough to me, and leads me to believe that there may actually be good potential for identifying an ancient ayahuasca analogue...

Too many prerequisites are perfectly in place regarding this part of the globe, the plant options they had, and the influence these entheogens must have had on their art, religion, and culture, this influence is obvious to me...


-eg