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St. John's Wort and Aya interactions???

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MR. KITTY

MR. KITTY

?
Im curious if any body out there has had first hand experience using ayahuasca when taking St. John's wort. I have been taking aprox. 1200 mg of St. John's wort daily for the past few months. It has been effective as a mild anti depressant to combat SAD aka the winter blues. I have been smoking a changa mix containing about 25 mgs of DMT and 5mg of freebase harmala/harmine extract and had no adverse affects. I have noticed little or no potentiation when using pure DMT as well, except for an extended afterglow effect.
BUt, I am concerned about the idea of using a oral cappi/ chacruna ayahuasca blend while taking St. Johns wort. I am aware that St. John's wort is thought to work as a mild SSRI/MAOI and in theory could produce the dreaded seratonin syndrome if combine with ayahuasca. I am curious if this is the case. If I need to stop the St. John's wort completely, I am curious how long prior to the ayahuasca experience i should do this. weeks? days?
I have been thinking of trying a small amount of cappi only tea 10% while still taking the St. John's wort and gauging the effects and proceeding from there. As always I would rather err on the side of caution. Any personal experience would be greatly appreciated.
 
I believe that st johnsworth also increases levels of dopamine. I'm not exactly sure, but i thought it wasn't an SSRI. If i'm right about that then you don't need to stop for two weeks, but only a few days before and after taking ayahuasca.
 
St Johns wort exerts its antidepressant action in a similar (but not identical) way to the SSRI antidepresaants;it has no MAOI activity of its own.There is a theoretical risk of getting the serotonin syndrome if this is taken with MAOIs.Its half life has been quoted as being from 24 hours to, some say, 48 hours but I dont think the 48 hour figure is accurate.I think if you stopped it at least 5 days before taking aya you should be ok.
 
I have been taking St John's Wort for a while (300mg = 0.9mg Hypericin) and took Ayahuasca a few weeks ago. I didn't notice any effect from the StJW, there may've been some poteniation but I doubt it. Certainly no seratonin syndrome, though my daily StJW consumption is about 4 times less than yours so you may not want to read too much into my experience. Also my Ayahuasca experience was rather weak -so any possible interaction would have been likewise.
 
Thanks guys, all very helpful responses. Still have a few weeks to ponder the matter. 5 days sounds like a safe route to go.
 
Attention All Shipping said:
I have been taking St John's Wort for a while (300mg = 0.9mg Hypericin) and took Ayahuasca a few weeks ago. I didn't notice any effect from the StJW, there may've been some poteniation but I doubt it. Certainly no seratonin syndrome, though my daily StJW consumption is about 4 times less than yours so you may not want to read too much into my experience. Also my Ayahuasca experience was rather weak -so any possible interaction would have been likewise.
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Substances that increase levels of serotonin can have unpredictable interactions with psychedelic's. They can increase the strength of a psychedelic, but they can also decrease the potencty of psychedelic's.
The weak experience could be directly linked to the hypericin.
 
yes, it's very unpredictable. Each substance in the end has it's own unique interaction with psychedelic's. Since decreasing levels of serotonin is one of the typical effect of psychedelic's, increased levels of serotonin could explain the diminished activity of DMT. Benzyme also told me that serotonin has a higher 5-HT-2 receptor affinity than DMT, so that it literally counteracts on DMT.
 
polytrip said:
yes, it's very unpredictable. Each substance in the end has it's own unique interaction with psychedelic's. Since decreasing levels of serotonin is one of the typical effect of psychedelic's, increased levels of serotonin could explain the diminished activity of DMT. Benzyme also told me that serotonin has a higher 5-HT-2 receptor affinity than DMT, so that it literally counteracts on DMT.
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I agree with all of this except that I think (from what iv'e read) it is DMT that has a slightly higher affinity for 5 HT 2, which is why you get such profound effects. It wins when competing for those receptors, while DMT is occupying those receptors, the presynaptic nerves are still releasing there normal amount of serotonin which is unused in the synaptic gap until dmt is metabolized, which explains that after glow feeling of being resent after the initial trip.... I may be wrong on this though... I am not a neurologist. I have noticed, when vaporizing DMT and taking St. Johns Wort the aftereffects are extended and possibly the trip is a little smoother.

I guess the complicated part is throwing the MAOI's of Banisteriopsis caapi, into the mix, along with DMT and St. John's wort. The interaction of caapi and the St. John's wort is more of a concern to me. Like you said very unpredictable... hence proceeding with caution.
 
Maybe it's even more complex. Maybe hypericin prevents both serotonin as DMT from being destroyed by MAO. Because of that it would amplify or prolong the effects of DMT when it's taken shortly before DMT is vaporised, but weaken the effect if it's taken long before or for a longer period of time. If serotonin levels are significantly elevated it will weaken the effect of DMT, but if it hasn't had the time to do this, it could amplify or prolong the effects of DMT.
 
..from memory, while Hypericin has no MAOI activity (similar to SSRI like corpus callosum said), the whole St. John's Wort herb has some MAOI activity, but not strong..
from http://www.all-natural.com/hyp-1.html:
St. John's Wort working in a similar way to drugs that are monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs).

However, studies done in the 1990's have shown that the MAOI-like effect of St. John's Wort is negligible when it's used in normal doses. So it is unlikely that it would react with tyramine. In Germany, where doctors have had the most experience with St. John's Wort, it is considered safe to use in patients with high blood pressure.
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..however (from some experiments in vaporizing the oil years back) the MAOI-like effects can last a while..i was overly light sensitive for a few days, and decided not to go with the Wort anymore..
i recall it enhanced DMT a bit, but had a real fuzziness about it, which i didn't like compared to Harmalas..
i'd be interested to hear other reports..
 
thanks nen888 for the update. seems like it does more mellowing you out and creating a "fuzziness" about it. might be one to avoid unless you need that type of thing.
 
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