STB very low yield

[sneakapoo]

Sooooo.
My pH meter decided to die on the day I had to make my extraction.
Following a Tek that states it needs a pH of 12+. (CADJunglist)
As I was adding lye my PH meter was giving all sorts of wrong readings. So I had to kind of eyeball it. (Stupid, I know....)
I think I went over rather than under. (About 40g lye to 800 water, 100g MHRB)
First pull was VERY VERY low yield, second one in the freezer right now.
Any ideas on what it could be or what I should do to try and maximise my next pull?

 

[fractals4life]

Going over won't reduce yield, it just wastes lye a bit. 40g in 800ml water should be plenty, so look to either not enough mixing with the NPS, so that not much DMT dissolves in it and the solution isn't concentrated enough to freeze precipitate, or too much NPS in the first place so the solution isn't concentrated enough.
Either that or the DMT isn't there to start with, but lets hope not!

 

[sneakapoo]

Oh it's there! Very little but beautiful white crystals with the right smell!
I think I might have made both mistakes you mentioned.
Not enough mixing with NPS - easy to solve for my next pull.
I case of too much NPS what would be the best solution to take?
Thank you for your answer!

 

[fractals4life]

If too much NPS, then just re use the NPS you poured off from the freezer but use less of it for a pull next time, the DMT that's already in there will get enhanced by pulling more from the soup, then use the remaining NPS from your first pull for a third.

Unless you used *way* too much, in which case you could consider evaporating it down a bit, until it shows signs of milkiness, before freezing. But that wastes NPS.

 

[sneakapoo]

Solid advice, thank you again!

 

[Transform]

Small footnote, some pH probes don't like very high pH and tend to get destroyed by it (as you've probably noticed). Check the tech spec for your device. Not that I ever used a pH meter for this type of extraction anyhow…

 

[Loveall]

If too much NPS, then just re use the NPS you poured off from the freezer but use less of it for a pull next time, the DMT that's already in there will get enhanced by pulling more from the soup, then use the remaining NPS from your first pull for a third.

Unless you used *way* too much, in which case you could consider evaporating it down a bit, until it shows signs of milkiness, before freezing. But that wastes NPS.

This is great advice, but the used solvent does not pull more from the soup. Instead, it leaves a little more DMT in the soup, BUT will precipitate more xtals vs. fresh solvent

Example:

Assume, used still NPS has 1mg/ml of DMT after freezer xtalization.
Assume 1000ml of plant soup with 2000mg of DMT.
Assume DMT partitions 50/50 when 200ml of NPS are used to pull.


Case A: Pulls with fresh NPS

1) First pull: Since partition is 0.5, 1000mg move to solvent and 1000mg remain in the soup. 800mg are obtained in the freezer step (since frozen NPS retains 1mg/ml of DMT)
2) Second pull: 500mg move to NPS. 300mg are obtained in freezer.
3) Third pull: 250 move to NPS, 50mg are obtained in the freezer.
4) Fourth pull: 125mg move to NPS. 0 mg are obtained in the freezer (NPS is not fully saturated in the freezer).
Case A total yield: 1150mg xtlas available. 725mg are in the 800ml of used solvent, and 125mg remain in the plant soup

Case B: Using used NPS with 200mg/ml of DMT

Solvent has a total of 200mg of DMT in 200ml.
1) First pull, 900mg move to solvent with 1100mg total in each phase. 900mg precipitate in the freezer.
2) Second pull, 450mg move to the solvent with 650mg in each phase, 450mg precipitate.
3) Third pull: 225mg move to the solvent, with 425mg in each phase. 225mg precipitate.
4) Fourth pull: 112.5mg move to the solvent with 312.5mg in each phase. 112.5mg precipitate.
Case B total yield: 1687.5mg xtals, 800 in solvent (no change), and remain 312.5mg in the soup.

So the used NPS actually pulled a little less from the plant soup (only 187.5mg less). However, the used NPS, gave more xtlas (535mg more).

So when using fresh solvent, a penalty is used to "charge it up" because DMT is slightly soluble in the freezer.

While evaporation can get a little more out, it is better to pay the beginner tax and save all that rich used solvent in the next extraction to pull precipitate DMT better. This way, solvent is not lost to evaporation.

Sorry if this is too detailed, just want to make the point that reuse is best and evaporation is wasteful.

 

[fractals4life]

This is great advice, but the used solvent does not pull more from the soup. Instead, it leaves a little more DMT in the soup,

Just to maybe add a little clarity:

I think we're talking across different interpretations of an ambiguous use of "more" by me here: used solvent will pull DMT from the soup if it's there, and will end up with more in it than it started with. But it won't pull out a greater amount than the same amount of fresh NPS would.

Then, as you point out, the extra amount pulled by fresh solvent is "trapped" in the NPS, because it's the amount that will stay in solution at freezer temperatures anyway.

To get this last bit out, once you've run out of bark to make soup with, you can salt it out, for instance with benzoic acid saturated naphtha, to see how much was there, see here: TEK - The benzoic acid tek for lots of detail.

Happy extracting!

 

[Loveall]

Just to maybe add a little clarity:

I think we're talking across different interpretations of an ambiguous use of "more" by me here: used solvent will pull DMT from the soup if it's there, and will end up with more in it than it started with. But it won't pull out a greater amount than the same amount of fresh NPS would.

Then, as you point out, the extra amount pulled by fresh solvent is "trapped" in the NPS, because it's the amount that will stay in solution at freezer temperatures anyway.

To get this last bit out, once you've run out of bark to make soup with, you can salt it out, for instance with benzoic acid saturated naphtha, to see how much was there, see here: TEK - The benzoic acid tek for lots of detail.

Happy extracting!

Well said

And I love the approach when targeting the DMT in the used naphtha. Lets not do the evap anymore, that's so 19hundreds....