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Research Summary of jungle spice analytical work

Research done by (or for) the DMT-Nexus community
Migrated topic.
Spiceman said:
Extracts made with Di-ethyl ether yeild something very diffrent from your everyday run of the mill jungle spice. Perhaps it is this "5% mystery alkaloid" in relatively pure form. The major point is that this compound is NOT soluble in naptha ... this alkaloid or whatever is extremely psycho-active and is nothing like dmt. It is NOT soluble in naptha.... dmt is... so this is obviously not DMT.
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why still call it mystery alkaloid and not name the other alkaloid as 2-methyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-bcarboline?

and if thats it, then yes at least according to xlogp it would make sense that its not naphtha soluble, as you can see in the psychedelic compounds information wiki[/url it has a xlogp of 1.7, same as dmt n-oxide which is also not soluble in naphtha.

But is 2-MTHBC indeed psychoactive? Or maybe in synergy it modulates dmt experience? And does di-ethyl ether really extract it in pure form? And is it possible that you're just self-suggesting the different effects, or that maybe what diethyl ether extracts is some kind of inactive compound that protects dmt and makes the vaporization more effective therefore seeming like something different?

Did you make a blind test with this compound to see if you can really notice a difference between it and dmt? and if not, would you be willing to, maybe also with someone else to also make the test? One could, for example, dissolve it in some inactive herbs to mask the taste and looks, ask a third person to make codes on the container to later find out which is which, and make a few successive launches (so that there is a statistical significance in the results and not just one isolated test with one person).. The results of this kind of test would be deeply appreciated
 
SWIM has also looked into the jungle spice phenomenon with GC/MS. Her results are inline with Burnt's. The major peak was N,N-. There was a much smaller peak (less than 1%) which gave a ion at 186 suggesting the TH-b-carboline N-methyl-pinoline or it could be the 2-methyl Burnt and Shulgin suggested but without a ref we won't know (ions: 186 (40%) ; 185 (20%); 144 (20%); 143 (100%); . Note: SWIM said this is unlikely an artifact as pure N,N- did not give such a peak. One other minor peak may have been an artifact of degradation and she was unable to determine the M+ from background.

Method: Following multiple pulls (at least 5) with boiling hexane, a golden brown residue still remains. GC/MS results for this residue shows it contains a large quantity of N,N-. As Burnt said it is likely that other non-volatile portions are present in the JS as well. However based on the intensity of the peaks it seems N,N- is a major component.

SWIM has also been unable to detect N-oxide. Other claim that N-oxides give unique peaks but I bet it is variable based on many factors. Thus it is possible that some N-oxides are being detected as their parent compounds via degradation. Without a reference standard we won't know. SWIM Also just wants to let people know the a rxn with N,N- and 10% H2O2 at 1 hour lead to a large amount of unreacted N,N- and the formation of substantial impurities but SWIM still is not sure if the N,N- peak contained N-oxide or not. It is possible the N-oxide degrades in the column. SWIM also told me she left a small amount of pure N,N- sitting out at room temperature open to air for a month. The sample turned gooey and brown. When this was run on the GC/MS it showed a single peak for N,N-. Thus it may be that this method can not distinguish the N-oxides.


While the myth of jungle spice is complicated. There does seem to be some difference in effects as many people reports this, SWIM has also experienced it. While placebo is strong the shear number of people who claim this as well as SWIMs multiple experiences with it as well as those who had no previous knowledge of the JS phenomenon claiming it was different than pure N,N-. Never the less, Blind tests would be useful to clarify. Despite the GC results several possibilities remain that could explain the alter pharmacology of JS.

1) N,N-N-oxide is present: How soluble is this in hexane? It should be less so than N,N- but still may be soluable. TLC or IR should be able to distinguish these. SWIM had done TLC work years ago which showed that three peaks were present in JS (one with an Rf higher and one lower than N,N-). I will ask her to go back and check this out one day.

2) The Matrix has an effect on vaporization. Burnt proposed this theory and it makes some sense. The other things present such as fats, tannins etc present effect the vaporization of the N,N- resulting in greater availability. This is one of the reasons cigarette companies add additives to cigarettes. It is also possible but unlikely that some chemistry is going on when the mixture is vaporized/heated. This should be able to be detected via heating and running analysis on the residue. It should also be detected by the GC depending on the temps involved. Better still someone could use a sublimator.

3) The beta-carboline is a potentiator. However this compound would have to be phenomenally potent. At l even 2% say one would have to smoke 100 mg of JS to get 2 mg of the alkaloid. A 20 mg dose would have 400 uG. I doubt this compound even has strong MAOI properties or other activity based on related compounds. Anything that would vaporize in the mixture would be detected by the GC/MS so none of the "other" components could contribute directly to the pharmacology.
 
What does the extract look like from Di-ethyl ether? I know maybe this is a lame question, but I have no analysis equipment other than eyes , nose, and brain!

I am considering options for extracting with additional solvents from basified bark that was previously extracted using pentane/hexane with 7 pulls. It is planned to get the remainder of the goods from this solution possibly using xylene or d-limonene and salting out using acetic acid or fumaric acid. Any ideas for maximal extraction from the previously extracted black juice?

Thanks to Burnt for all the analysis work! This is a great thread.
 
SWIM has told me she did extractions with diethylether and analyzed with TLC. There was still a significant portion of N,N- present. N,N- is very soluable in ether as are most other alkaloids. Hexane and pentane (naptha) may result in the extraction of a "cleaner product" however the other things extracted using non-selective solvents like ether, toluene, ethyl acetate and CH2Cl2 are probably oil based and other large molecules. I am not sure off the top of my head what types of large non-alkaloid components would be soluable in toluene but not Hexane. Any help? But anyway as was stated these may effect the vaporization of the N.N- altering the effects. But there do not seem to be any additional alkaloids present.

Remember the whole initial JS theory came from people first exhausting the solution with naptha and then extracting with Xylene or toluene to get the JS. But in truth they were not exhausting the solution of N,N-. Hexane and Naptha would require many pulls to fully exhaust the solution this why some N,N- is left over with some other things. There is very likely a solvent effect however these "other" factors are very unlikely to be alkaloids.

If one extracts with toluene or xylene and evaporates they allegedly get a slightly brownish-yellow oil. This can be extracted with bioling hexane many times which yields pure N,N- upon crystallization conditions. If one keeps doing this only a very small amount of JS remains prob less than 5%. People are likely not extracting the raw product enough times which is why many claim to have a large amount of JS. If one than analyses this small amount of brown oily residue that results after many hexane pulls, it still contains a large amount of N,N-.
 
i take it thats the earwax spice from the jungle book - that oxidizes too (im not the only one to report oxidizing jungles)
 
Rivea said:
Spiceman said:
Extracts made with Di-ethyl ether yeild something very diffrent from your everyday run of the mill jungle spice. Perhaps it is this "5% mystery alkaloid" in relatively pure form. The major point is that this compound is NOT soluble in naptha ... this alkaloid or whatever is extremely psycho-active and is nothing like dmt. It is NOT soluble in naptha.... dmt is... so this is obviously not DMT.
Click to expand...

Spiceman, what does the extract look like from Di-ethyl ether? I know maybe this is a lame question, but I have no analysis equipment other than eyes , nose, and brain!

I am considering options for extracting with additional solvents from basified bark that was previously extracted using pentane/hexane with 7 pulls. It is planned to get the remainder of the goods from this solution possibly using xylene or d-limonene and salting out using acetic acid or fumaric acid. Any ideas for maximal extraction from the previously extracted black juice?

Thanks to Burnt for all the analysis work! This is a great thread.
Click to expand...



IT looks like this
... pulled by yours truly many, many years ago... when quantum tantra's tek was the mainstream... way back in the day.. peace and godspeed to ya..
 
Spiceman said:
Rivea said:
Spiceman said:
Extracts made with Di-ethyl ether yeild something very diffrent from your everyday run of the mill jungle spice. Perhaps it is this "5% mystery alkaloid" in relatively pure form. The major point is that this compound is NOT soluble in naptha ... this alkaloid or whatever is extremely psycho-active and is nothing like dmt. It is NOT soluble in naptha.... dmt is... so this is obviously not DMT.
Click to expand...

Spiceman, what does the extract look like from Di-ethyl ether? I know maybe this is a lame question, but I have no analysis equipment other than eyes , nose, and brain!

I am considering options for extracting with additional solvents from basified bark that was previously extracted using pentane/hexane with 7 pulls. It is planned to get the remainder of the goods from this solution possibly using xylene or d-limonene and salting out using acetic acid or fumaric acid. Any ideas for maximal extraction from the previously extracted black juice?

Thanks to Burnt for all the analysis work! This is a great thread.
Click to expand...



IT looks like this
... pulled by yours truly many, many years ago... when quantum tantra's tek was the mainstream... way back in the day.. peace and godspeed to ya..
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. I missed it when you replied. Been too busy.
 
burnt said:
SWIM has compared mimosa hostillis extracted with nothing but methanol (cold for a week in dark)
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Do you maybe remember how much mimosa hostilis was used and what was the weight of the extract (I presume methanol was evaporated to get a residue)?

Also a question. How effective is methanol at extracting alkaloids ? Would it be safe to presume that it pulls "everything" (from plant oils to N,N-DMT to whatever else is in the bark) ?
 
above mentioned product was pulled by a/b... extreme ph conditions... 1-13+ "exhausted with naptha, atleast most of the way.. alot of bark was used .. i have notes but im not on "my comp" so im not sure .. but it was atleast a kilo + .

After exhausting with naptha... swim switched to a binary solvent of 8 parts D/ Ether and 1 part heptane....

Washed this MULTIPLE ( in excess of ten times ) with HOT naptha.... dmt stopped coming out whatsoever.

This product must go through a several day ( atleast 10 -14, upwards sometimes of 20 -30 days depending on diffrent factors) drying phase.

Swim believes this compound or whatever oxidizes into a standalone psychadelic substance. Before the oxidation or whatever happens to it.. it carries only a heavy body load with no mental effects.. after the phase.. its insanely potent and so far from a DMT experience its not even close. The smell, taste, effects, everything is totally diffrent. After the drying/oxidizing phase..... it becomes as hard as stone... waxy and soft until complete. When done you will need a razor blade and a hammer to break off a chip.. just a few mg's , say around 10-12 makes a breakthrough dose. swim puts 200 mg's of nn-dmt in his bowl and hits it like a crack fiend. So placebo is here ruled out.

Sorry for the rushed post, need to get off other persons comp... more details later if required. peace and godspeed!
 
and it also makes no sense that its a specially different product if diethyl ether extract was analysed by bufoman's friend and there was nothing different, its not like the small amount of heptane mixed will add an extra unknown alkaloid. The only thing you're saying differently there is the oxidation process, but again, what appart from dmt oxide could be formed that would explain the difference? Would be hard arguing that some micrograms of an oxidized betacarboline which is only in trace amounts is so amazingly potent and makes the trip incredibly different. Anybody with more chemical knowledge can back this up?

Sounds to me much more likely to be self suggestion + the other explanations given by bufo and burnt regarding other possibilities that can explain different experiences. But I know you will fiercely say no, so would be better you where more clear aout what you are saying so burnt or bufoman's friends can test and get this settled
 
i spilled some ether in bio lab while cleaning up my dna electro graphing equipment.

wiped it up with my arm and took a loooong walk down the hall, slipped down 3 steps and kept on walking.

can anyone figure a quantity of betacarb/mg dmt on avg from the test samples? id like to know if its even enough to be active.
 
My comp is down, so no reply for awhile.. have stuff on the way.. 2K..... will work it up.. properly.. and take pictures of atleast 4 diffrent substances for all to see... .

worked up some week before last and about 1-2 percent of the total weight of alkaloids extracted left some strange looking earwax jungle... but i had already pulled and seperated all the earwax jungle... put crystals in my pipe.. put a tiny spec of that on top....hit it.. went on gods channel... me and my gf both hit it 1 time each and that batch of xtals we were hitting twice usually for a regular 15 minute dmt experience... 2 HOURS LATER I/we snapped out of it.. i experienced and she, a two and a half hour full blown ego death breakthrough..


I snapped out only because a can of soda exploded in my freezer and made a loud jarring sound...

It was a tiny amount of this substance.. just maybe 15 mg's on top of about 200 mg's of dmt xtal....AMAZING..

That was from brazilian bark , the next batch will be mexican.. it may not be there, or be diffrent.. we shall see.....peace and godspeed to all except Uncle Knucles... he's an asshole... lol
 
Agreed, I retract. However i will say that in my defense, I feel the nexus should be a place for all to share opinions and ideas without ridicule. I was severely talked down to by this individual on another thread. The thread was closed by The trav. I agree with you endlessness. It was folly to attack back, even if provoked. It solves nothing. So hence, I do retract. I want this forum to go back to what it used to be , I wish those with attitudes of putting others down for simply sharing opinions would find other forums to post on.

This of all places should be a place where we should be able to speak freely our opinions and thoughts without direct attacking ridicule. I myself am guilty of this in the above mentioned post. Therefore, my apologies. I was wrong. Peace and Godspeed to all , except art and that other dude who had so much to say about a simple poem and my method of smoking. Peace.........


ps. just checked ... bark is still in mexico, atleast tracking still says mexpost.... major bummer. Swim isolated some of that sweet beta carboline from the last soup. A tiny fleck of it on top of some crystals in the stem, or a a smaller fleck for iv/im injections are uber potent.

He has a nice pile of dark tan earwax jungle, @ really sharp taste and smell.... very shroomy.. the last batch of bark swim recieved was the most mystical/spiritual in nature that he had ever recieved. Just an update.
 
ps. just checked ... bark is still in mexico, atleast tracking still says mexpost.... major bummer. SWIM isolated some of that sweet beta carboline from the last soup. A tiny fleck of it on top of some crystals in the stem, or a a smaller fleck for iv/im injections are uber potent.
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I presume this indicates an assay of 2-Methyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-b-carboline type material.

It is quite plausible that this material is active in many ways.

One wonders if like many other betacarbolines it is not selected for by the standard extractions and so occurs in trace amounts, perhaps it can be precipitated from a solution to target it?

This molecule is also known from Phalaris:
The occurrence of 2-methyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-β-carboline and variation in alkaloids in Phalaris arundinaceastar,
2-Methyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-β-carboline was isolated from reed canarygrass (Phalaris arundinacea L.) and the occurrence of 2-methyl-6-methoxy-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-β-carboline confirmed. Clones of reed canarygrass that contained N,N-dimethyltryptamine or 2-methyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-β-carboline did not contain their respective methoxy or hydroxy derivatives. Five of the 12 clones tested contained either or both of 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine and 2-methyl-6-methoxy-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-β-carboline. The data suggest that clones that contain gramine are not likely to contain N,N-dimethyltryptamine and/or β-carbolines. Thus, an inverse biosynthetic relationship between gramine and the tryptamine and β-carboline alkaloids seems to exist. However, further work is needed to firmly establish any such relationship between these alkaloids.
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in several cases phalaris has been reported unusually potent when chewed or very fresh juice is ingested. Could it be that this molecule is the culprit behind both Jungle spice and fresh phalaris activity?
 
bufoman said:
SWIM has also looked into the jungle spice phenomenon with GC/MS. Her results are inline with Burnt's. The major peak was N,N-. There was a much smaller peak (less than 1%) which gave a ion at 186 suggesting the TH-b-carboline N-methyl-pinoline or it could be the 2-methyl Burnt and Shulgin suggested but without a ref we won't know (ions: 186 (40%) ; 185 (20%); 144 (20%); 143 (100%);
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i found this:
2-Methyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-beta-carboline (4), white
shiny needle crystals (MeOH) (50 mg), mp 213 ∞C,
UV λmax (MeOH) nm 290, 294. EIMS, m/z (rel.
int.): [M+] 186 (26), 171 (6), 144 (100), 143 (63),
115 (10), 94 (5), 77 (4), 42 (4).

note that 186, 144 and 143 are right, though 171 is missing...

As for the N-oxide of DMT being the darkening reaction, NMT also undergoes a similar reaction, but does not form oxides at all.

A lot of the Oxide data is cited to Fish et al 1955, in this work is there any mention of 2MeTHbC?
 
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