Appropriate paperwork has been submitted to Amnesty International...even if we can't break them out at the moment, we WILL get them properly recognized as political prisoners of ego.gibran2 said:
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Surprising Conclusion
- Thread starter Ya
- Start date
Ya
Rising Star
You asked me a question ( post #3 )
I promptly politely answered it ( post #5 )
I asked you an important question ( post #25 )
I asked you this important question again ( post #28 )
I asked you this important question for a third time ( post #59 )
Now, I ask you this important question for a fourth time ( post #62 )
When you wrote,
"This sounds like an intense breakthrough, but I’m surprised that you were still in your body – able to experiment with opening and closing your eyes, making attempts to speak, etc. Not to diminish your experience, but it actually sounds like a rather “typical” breakthrough (with the understanding that no breakthrough is really “typical”). I’m wondering if you agree? How was this breakthrough different from others you had prior to it?"
It seems to me that the jist of what you were trying to convey was,
"This sounds like an intense SUB-breakthrough, because you were still in your body – able to experiment with opening and closing your eyes, making attempts to speak, etc. Not to diminish your experience, but it actually sounds like a rather “typical” SUB-breakthrough (with the understanding that no DMT experience is really “typical”). I’m wondering if you agree that your experience was actually SUB-breakthrough? How was this supposed "breakthrough" you described above different from the SUB-breakthroughs you had prior to it? Basically, I think you merely had a SUB-breakthrough."
Is this close to the jist of what you were trying to convey?
I promptly politely answered it ( post #5 )
I asked you an important question ( post #25 )
I asked you this important question again ( post #28 )
I asked you this important question for a third time ( post #59 )
Now, I ask you this important question for a fourth time ( post #62 )
When you wrote,
"This sounds like an intense breakthrough, but I’m surprised that you were still in your body – able to experiment with opening and closing your eyes, making attempts to speak, etc. Not to diminish your experience, but it actually sounds like a rather “typical” breakthrough (with the understanding that no breakthrough is really “typical”). I’m wondering if you agree? How was this breakthrough different from others you had prior to it?"
It seems to me that the jist of what you were trying to convey was,
"This sounds like an intense SUB-breakthrough, because you were still in your body – able to experiment with opening and closing your eyes, making attempts to speak, etc. Not to diminish your experience, but it actually sounds like a rather “typical” SUB-breakthrough (with the understanding that no DMT experience is really “typical”). I’m wondering if you agree that your experience was actually SUB-breakthrough? How was this supposed "breakthrough" you described above different from the SUB-breakthroughs you had prior to it? Basically, I think you merely had a SUB-breakthrough."
Is this close to the jist of what you were trying to convey?
Ya, please respond to this...you have made a claim and been asked to elaborate upon it. It would be appropriate for you to do so as you are accusing these members of violating the only "code of behavior" we have here.fractal enchantment said:
OK, I’ll indulge your pointless tenacity and answer your question in a direct succinct manner:Ya said:
Your paragraph is not close to the gist of what I was trying to convey.
My original paragraph contains precisely what it was that I was trying to convey. In my experience, I am only able to open my eyes, etc. after returning from the “immaterial realm”. I am, at that point, still strongly under the influence, but I’m back from the breakthrough. In my experience, I’m never able to open my eyes during a breakthrough because I have no physical eyes to open.
In your experience, you are able to open your eyes during a breakthrough. That’s your experience, but it isn’t mine. Sorry if you find that upsetting, but I can’t change it. We each have unique subjective experiences, and that’s just the way it is.
It’s ironic that this thread is titled “Surprising Conclusion”, considering that your responses so far haven’t surprised me at all, and considering that you avoid bringing this thread to a conclusion!
As I expected, you didn’t answer the questions I asked in my last post, so I’ll ask them one last time:
#1 --- I expressed my disappointment in your crude passive-aggressive remark addressed toward me. Do you have any comments regarding why you made such a remark?
#2 --- I also pointed out that Seraph (in post #2) actually made a very good point and was obviously trying to be helpful. You responded to him with sarcasm. Why?
#3 --- Then you make a mostly baseless accusation against 5 Nexus members, claiming that they violated the “attitude”. Why specifically have you made these baseless accusations?
#4 --- I would like you to explain to me how acknowledging that we define the term “breakthrough” differently and how believing that your experience was atypical constitutes a violation of the Nexus attitude?
#5 --- I disagree with you on a number of issues. How is that being “not in line” with the Nexus attitude?
(I’ve also noticed that you haven’t yet made an apology to those whom you’ve falsely accused.)
ragabr said:
Seconded.
I have been chased by a UFO type thing and mixed in a huge bowl full of other people while being told the history of the origin of mankind while vomitting in a bowl.
I believe the complete loss of awareness of the body comes from the willingness to leave it behind and happens quite easily when you are flat on your back concerntrating on visions. The information overload causes your nervous system to select only what is necassary and when in a typical vaping position, this does not include your body.
Also the vibes some folk have put on this thread with their tones of type are... lame.
You know who you are. Assumed self-superiority is a stinky cologne.
tetra
BaconBerry
In the Hindu tradition there is this story: The God of the Universe became curious about how it felt to be a pig. So he entered the body of one. He found it delightful beyond compare--how good the sty smelled, how sweet were the slops, how desirable were the female pigs. But the universe needed tending. There was work to be done. So the helpers and handmaidens went and said, "God, you must come our of there. The universe needs you." God said, "Who are you talking to? I am just a pig! Leave me alone!" So they killed the pig, and God came out, and refused to believe he had ever refused to leave.
Good storytetra said:
Thanks for sharing it!
Ya
Rising Star
This sounds like an intense SUB-breakthrough, because you were still in your body - able to experiment with opening and closing your eyes, making attempts to speak.
[I believe the majority of rational people understand that this is your point, to deny that this is your point would be dishonest. This is your point, admit it, stand by it.]
Not to diminish your experience, but it actually sounds like a rather “typical” SUB-breakthrough (with the understanding that no DMT experience is really “typical”).
[You typed "typical" yet later admitted you feel it was "not typical", just as you typed "breakthrough" when later you admitted you feel it was "not breakthrough".]
I’m wondering if you agree that your experience was actually SUB-breakthrough?
[Any intelligent reader gets that you feel Lack-of-OBE means SUB-breakthrough."]
How was this supposed "breakthrough" you described above different from the SUB-breakthroughs you had prior to it?
[We can leave this in question form, but again the point here is that "You don't know the difference between the two."]
[I believe the majority of rational people understand that this is your point, to deny that this is your point would be dishonest. This is your point, admit it, stand by it.]
Not to diminish your experience, but it actually sounds like a rather “typical” SUB-breakthrough (with the understanding that no DMT experience is really “typical”).
[You typed "typical" yet later admitted you feel it was "not typical", just as you typed "breakthrough" when later you admitted you feel it was "not breakthrough".]
I’m wondering if you agree that your experience was actually SUB-breakthrough?
[Any intelligent reader gets that you feel Lack-of-OBE means SUB-breakthrough."]
How was this supposed "breakthrough" you described above different from the SUB-breakthroughs you had prior to it?
[We can leave this in question form, but again the point here is that "You don't know the difference between the two."]
Basically, I think you merely had a SUB-breakthrough.
[This is your point, with the diplomacy stripped away.]
Implying that a Nexus Member's breakthrough wasn't a breakthrough due to "Lack of OBE", is not only disrespectful, it is WRONG.
How many reports of breakthroughs without full-dissociative effects here have you pulled this "IMO" stunt on? I doubt very many.
Seriously, how many people have had Gibran on their report thread implying that they didn't really breakthrough? Care to share?
I think the answer is Gibran has not pulled this diplomatic "definition" game to this degree on most of your breakthrough reports.
Whoever is reading this, have you brokethrough? Yes? Good, now if Gibran repeatedly implied you really didn't, what would you say?
I think most members here agree, "Implying that a member's breakthrough did not happen is NOT in-line with the Nexus Attitude."
You can debate about everything else under the sun, you can state YOU have OBEs everytime, but Gibran you simply went too far.
And DMTripper, your "So what you experienced was not a full breakthrough" quote can't be softened with an edit or a back-pedal.
And Art as well, who implied that the level of awareness reported meant a breakthrough dose wasn't smoked, also makes the list.
And Seraph and Tetra, who implied that either a Jester or a Celtic Knot-Face gave an order, projected untruth onto a clear report.
The 5 folks above laid a spin of, "You're mistaken, you're wrong, we're worried about you man." I feel that vibe truly disappointing.
So, you five disappointed me with what you brought to a beautiful report, and if you're disappointed with my response, that's fine.
If you don't think you need to apologize for what you brought to this thread, I don't feel I need to apologize for stating my feelings.
If you really think that my opinion of your posts somehow puts you in some mental prison, just remember that it's just my opinion.
As the Universe sang through Bob Marley, "Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery: none but ourselves can free our minds."
clearlyone, christian, ragabr, endlessness, polytrip, ewok, Ellis D'Empty, corpus callosum, fractal enchantment, soulfood: Thank you.
नमस्ते
Wow! With each new post, you reveal a bit more. But I’m really getting tired of you telling me what I meant, what I thought, what I intended, etc. I answered your question as clearly as possible, and yet you continue to harp.
You’ve demonstrated quite clearly that you aren’t interested in discussing any of the points brought up in this thread in a reasonable, rational manner, so this will be my last post in this thread.
Based on the frequency with which you repeatedly cut-and-paste my first post (and your modifications to it), I can see that you were deeply offended. If I had known how sensitive this “breakthrough” subject is for you, I wouldn’t have bothered commenting at all. But having commented, I stand by what I said: The objective description of your breakthrough (and notice that I’ve always referred to it as your “breakthrough”) is not consistent with how I experience what I call a breakthrough. As far as your personal subjective experience goes, I haven’t and can’t comment on that – the subjective and ineffable nature of these experiences makes communicating those subjective aspects very difficult.
Never once did I say that you didn’t break through. The reason I haven’t is very simple – I’m not you. I can’t feel your feelings and experience your experiences. Language is the only tool we have to share, and it’s just not adequate.
To close out my participation in this thread, I’ll ask a rhetorical question (rhetorical only because I know you won’t answer) – “Why does it matter what we call our experiences?”
My experiences are valuable to me because of the change in perspective they offer, the ideas they engender, the feelings and memories they stir up, the new ways of relating that they offer. They are what they are, and how you or I label them doesn’t change that one bit.
You’ve demonstrated quite clearly that you aren’t interested in discussing any of the points brought up in this thread in a reasonable, rational manner, so this will be my last post in this thread.
Based on the frequency with which you repeatedly cut-and-paste my first post (and your modifications to it), I can see that you were deeply offended. If I had known how sensitive this “breakthrough” subject is for you, I wouldn’t have bothered commenting at all. But having commented, I stand by what I said: The objective description of your breakthrough (and notice that I’ve always referred to it as your “breakthrough”) is not consistent with how I experience what I call a breakthrough. As far as your personal subjective experience goes, I haven’t and can’t comment on that – the subjective and ineffable nature of these experiences makes communicating those subjective aspects very difficult.
Never once did I say that you didn’t break through. The reason I haven’t is very simple – I’m not you. I can’t feel your feelings and experience your experiences. Language is the only tool we have to share, and it’s just not adequate.
To close out my participation in this thread, I’ll ask a rhetorical question (rhetorical only because I know you won’t answer) – “Why does it matter what we call our experiences?”
My experiences are valuable to me because of the change in perspective they offer, the ideas they engender, the feelings and memories they stir up, the new ways of relating that they offer. They are what they are, and how you or I label them doesn’t change that one bit.
smokerx
ThGiL fO TiRipS
What if Ya's opening eyes was really not in this realm. He said that opening and closing them had some metallic sound or something like that. You don't get that in this realm do you ? What if Ya only thought or felt while OBE that he could open them. Maybe it was only a feeling or the actual experience while in full breakthrough. In this case it would mean that there would be of course no difference whether opened or closed.
Have you ever thought about that?
Please people do not argue its pointless. We all said our opinions and that's it. Ya can take what ever he wants out of it or not its his decision to make. If Ya felt he had breakthrough then that's what is was. It was Ya's breakthrough. We all have our own ones. Lets share them but lets not argue about them.
Love to all.
Have you ever thought about that?
Please people do not argue its pointless. We all said our opinions and that's it. Ya can take what ever he wants out of it or not its his decision to make. If Ya felt he had breakthrough then that's what is was. It was Ya's breakthrough. We all have our own ones. Lets share them but lets not argue about them.
Love to all.
ThirdEyeVision
Rising Star
I have no pony in this race guys, I just think this is all silly high school girl drama. TURN OFF GLEE!
A "breakthrough" is simply a word used loosely in order to ATTEMPT to explain in human words what you experienced in a non-human realm. It is in no way a scientific marker for anything. One man can have a "breakthrough" while beating off sucking on whip-it's while another man's "breakthrough" is a deeply religious out of body experience. To the best of my knowledge there is no universal line in the sand, so let it go.
Ya, I have read gibran's post that you are manipulating here on the web. I didn't read it the way you did, I read it the way he/she said they meant it. If gibran is telling you repeatedly he didn't mean it the way you took it do you find it at all possible you read between the lines mistakenly? The fact that you are continuously misquoting him doesn't help your argument. He may not have been eloquent with his words but why do you have to call him a liar?
What I find ironic is we are discussing ego-loss yet no one is displaying anything but ego
A "breakthrough" is simply a word used loosely in order to ATTEMPT to explain in human words what you experienced in a non-human realm. It is in no way a scientific marker for anything. One man can have a "breakthrough" while beating off sucking on whip-it's while another man's "breakthrough" is a deeply religious out of body experience. To the best of my knowledge there is no universal line in the sand, so let it go.
Ya, I have read gibran's post that you are manipulating here on the web. I didn't read it the way you did, I read it the way he/she said they meant it. If gibran is telling you repeatedly he didn't mean it the way you took it do you find it at all possible you read between the lines mistakenly? The fact that you are continuously misquoting him doesn't help your argument. He may not have been eloquent with his words but why do you have to call him a liar?
What I find ironic is we are discussing ego-loss yet no one is displaying anything but ego
how about everyone just stops posting in this thread so it can go away?
RayOfLight
Rising Star
I was going to say ' you guys have too much time on your hands' then I realized I read the whole thread myself..... come on guys its a wonderful world out there lets enjoy it .